LCBO

[SYoung]

So I get up early this past Saturday for the April 16th LCBO release hoping to get a couple of bottles of the 2001 Cellole Chianti Classco Reserva at Summerhill LCBO, got there at 9:00am sharp and it was already gone!

It seems (!??) people started lining up way before 9am and all the 'tickets' for the chianti had already been given out and it was effectively sold out before store opening. This is nuts!! Since when did Toronto become this crazy for wine?!

I've heard of people lining up overnight for concert tickets or even new movie releases, but for wine? Geez!!! I'm going to Canadian Tire to get some camping gear... not for camping in Muskoka or something, but for camping in front of LCBO on release day!

[mhkhung]

This is normal for LCBO releases.. I have all but given up on them.. Esp the big LCBOs.. (Summerhill, Bayview Village) You might have better luck going to smaller vintages stores.. (Or ottawa, the people are not as crazy there)

M

[malcolmjolley]

Are you familiar with the product search feature at the LCBO site? You can find out what stores carry it. You can even get your local to order some from any other store.

That being said, it sounds like this went pretty quick, which will happen with a small order of a good deal.

The good news: it will probaly come back topt he LCBO, based on the success - assuming there's more of it to ship!

[edited for spilling]

Edited April 19, 2005 by malcolmjolley (log)

[Manolo]

I think the fact that they published that 95pt score from Wine Spectator in the catalog made the demand nuts for the amount that they brought in (75 cases).

[sadistick]

Tried to get some, went to summerhill (bayview wasnt getting any ????) at 8:30 and there were +/- 100 people there...right.

A 95ws rating for $35 will go like gangbusters...dont know why they didn't pounce on that and order more.

[malcolmjolley]

95 WS? Yeah, that would explain it. checked the "Inventory Position" just now and there ain't a bottle left.

Very annoying that the LCBO doesn't disclose the importing agent (as if they need to protect their sales!). Will try and find out who brought it in and if it's coming back.

[jayt90]

When I am chasing something that will sell out quickly, I generally ask two or three trusted wine consultants five days in advance of the release to set some aside. Sometimes they will even sell it before Saturday release, since they want to move product.

Sometimes they will special order an item from a far flung store where it did not sell. But they won't do this until one week after release.

As Malcom reports, there is no more of the chianti to be had, at this time.

In any case, you need to plan carefully for Vintages items that are good buys.

[malcolmjolley]

Devious!

I've also heard that on a larger order a lot of stores will start selling the release on the Friday that it comes in - obviously not the big ones that attract the major winos, like summerhill, Queens Quay and 401 & Weston in TO.

[sadistick]

I actually found out who the importer for this wine was a week+ ago, and spoke to him, and he said all he got in was for the LCBO, and that was all he had.

[SYoung]

What kind of planning ahead would you recommend in this case other than to be there to line up at least a couple of hours before store opening?

I think LCBO knows pretty well in advance which wines will go fast at release date and so moving the product shouldn't be a concern in these cases. It would be unfair, IMO, for some stores to give preferential treatment to some customers by selling very high demand items in advance. I'm sure this kind of back door sale would be against some kind of LCBO policy.

When I am chasing something that will sell out quickly, I generally ask two or three trusted wine consultants five days in advance of the release to set some aside. Sometimes they will even sell it before Saturday release, since they want to move product.

In any case, you need to plan carefully for Vintages items that are good buys.

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[jayt90]

What kind of planning ahead would you recommend in this case other than to be there to line up at least a couple of hours before store opening?

I think LCBO knows pretty well in advance which wines will go fast at release date and so moving the product shouldn't be a concern in these cases.  It would be unfair, IMO, for some stores to give preferential treatment to some customers by selling very high demand items in advance.  I'm sure this kind of back door sale would be against some kind of LCBO policy.

When I am chasing something that will sell out quickly, I generally ask two or three trusted wine consultants five days in advance of the release to set some aside. Sometimes they will even sell it before Saturday release, since they want to move product.

In any case, you need to plan carefully for Vintages items that are good buys.

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Here's what I do.

1. Research the interesting items as best I can as soon as the catalogue arrives.

The description might indicate a good score from a reputable source, and I may have to track it down. The description can be deceptive, as it is meant to promote the wine.

2. I talk to 2 or 3 product consultants I know. They may offer to set aside a moderate amount, or I might ask for this. I'll mention the first one offered to me several years ago: The '94 Eileen Hardy Shiraz was coming in at $27. The consultant offered 4 bottles to me two days before release. Current vintages of this wine are way beyond my price barrier, so I am glad to put those bottles away, and glad to have the consultant helping me. He has since moved to a store out of my range, but still a good source of info by phone.

3. If I can't do this before release, I'll check vintages.com to see where I can find a wine on Saturday. The smaller stores are better, especially if they don't have everything ready early Sat. AM.

4. If I miss out on a Sat. AM choice, I'll pop into a public library and check the search engine again, before heading to another store.

[Manolo]

If you ever need to find out the importer of a wine, try this site:

http://www.vintageassessments.com

(its down near the bottom left)

They ususally post a PDF listing by Wine or Importer before the Vintages catalogs hit the stores or mail (not always accurate).

[malcolmjolley]

Manolo: that's brilliant! Thanks. I hadn't noticed that before. Good for Michael Vaughn.

Once you find the agents, I have a fairly comprehensive list of Agents and contact info at Gremolata: http://gremolata.com/wineagents.htm

[Manolo]

My pleasure, I use the PDF's all the time myself. Make for good shopping lists. The other thing that makes even more useful than the vintages catalog is the listing of "In store Discoveries" which sometimes aren't all in the book.

There was a 2003 Forest Estate Botrytised Reisling (New Zealand) released back in March that was a real "95pts" in my book. It wasnt in the catalog as it was released as an "Instore" and I might have missed it. Great one if you like desert wines. (CSPC# 596965).

As for the Chianti's on the last release I've been pointed in the direction of the Fontodi instead of the Cellole. Also the 1994 Umberto Fiore Gattinara might be interesting at $21.95 for 11 year old Nebbiolo?

Cheers

Edited April 21, 2005 by Manolo (log)

[marlowe]

I stopped lining up for wine at the Vintages stores some years ago. I noticed it brought out the worst in people. It reminded me of lining up for a chance to buy meat in the old Soviet Union. People were often rude, having family members (including young children) stand as place holders to get liimited wines....people who insisted I was standing in "their spot" as they had only gone away to get a coffee. It took the fun out wine, and wine is supposed to be fun. I find I do quite well without the trophy wines, spend a lot less money, and frankly, I already do probably have more wine than I can drink in my lifetime. I am enjoying it much more, by taking a more relaxed attitude towards the whole schtick.

I remember years ago trying to get some 97 Chianti, a very good vintage. It was constantly being sold out before I got a chance. At that point I ordered several cases from an agency, and was quite pleased with this approach.

[SYoung]

I remember years ago trying to get some 97 Chianti, a very good vintage. It was constantly being sold out before I got a chance. At that point I ordered several cases from an agency, and was quite pleased with this approach.

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Hmmm... interesting. Sorry for my ignorance, but how do you order through an agent? Do you just call them? Since LCBO has a monopoly, I assume you're going to pay a lot more than buying direct through LCBO, right?

[malcolmjolley]

I remember years ago trying to get some 97 Chianti, a very good vintage. It was constantly being sold out before I got a chance. At that point I ordered several cases from an agency, and was quite pleased with this approach.

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Hmmm... interesting. Sorry for my ignorance, but how do you order through an agent? Do you just call them? Since LCBO has a monopoly, I assume you're going to pay a lot more than buying direct through LCBO, right?

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Yes, exactly: you just call them. And, no you don't pay more. You have to buy at least 6 bottles or sometimes a case. James McNally from Lifford, who posts here sometimes, did a thing on Gremolata (sorry - more shameless plugging) about it: http://www.gremolata.com/gourmetmedia050128.htm

[Nondoctor]

You'd be surprised how easy it is to order through agencies.

At JK I deal with about 35 different ones and regularly send our customers their way.

My personal favourites for 2005 thus far:

The Stem (Rob)

L'Excellent (Dave)

Thompson Vintage Trade (David)

Allegro (Dan)

[mkjr]

"And, no you don't pay more."

Sometimes depending on the product you may have to pay a little more (maybe a buck or two on more expensive wines).

I agree it is very easy to buy through agents. I wish that there was a better way to get the lists of wines agents get (that are not sold at the LCBO - which I understand it a lot of stuff).

[malcolmjolley]

I don't want to double post, so please see this re: early releases: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...ndpost&p=911928

[SYoung]

Yes, as a relative newbie to the wine world, even I know that some stores put out some of their releases the day before on Friday. However, as you put it, the limited volume anticipated high demand stock is kept in the warehouse until "9:30" on Saturday. So, there's no real advantage to going early to these "rogue" stores unless you have a unique need to buy a new release of the non-high demend stuff for drinking on that Friday night.

I don't want to double post, so please see this re: early releases: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...ndpost&p=911928

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[KevV]

Would it be Summerhill?

Also, aside from the LCBO, I've only dealt with the SAQ, which doesn't really compare. To my knowledge each Canadian province has its own liquor monopoly, but of all of them is the LCBO the biggest and best?

[jayt90]

There are privately operated wine stores in B.C., but they are subject to a lot of BC regulations.

Alberta wine stores are more independent, but I think they still have to import through the government.

Is Summerhill the biggest LCBO? Maybe, but Queen'sQuay has traditionally offered as large a selection of Vintages products as possible. When they rebuild in the adjacent Loblaw lot there will be a notable expansion.

Crossroads (Weston Rd at Black Creek ) has built up a rep for clearing odd lots, often from agents unable to connect with a restaurant that promised to buy...

[Nondoctor]

"from agents unable to connect with a restaurant that promised to buy..."

Or agents that simply DO NOT have their shit together...

Grrrrrrrrr...

I have lost a lot of special private orders to Crossroads due to incompetent agencies not used to dealing with private orders.

[KevV]

Yes, aside from Summerhill, QueensQuay - which I haven't been to - is a place I've heard mentioned in the same breath. So, I'm guessing these are the 2 biggies? In Toronto, and therefore the province, I would assume?

How about the whole of Canada? Are there shops elsewhere that can rival Summerhill or QueensQuay?

Thanks for the BC & Alberta info. Do you have any idea if the presence of private shops there, along with the provincial booze boards, means that there is a greater choice compared to in Ontario? (jay - you didn't say, but I'm assuming provincial boards do operate in each place)

And what of the Maritimes, Quebec... ahh, the Yukon? I've barely visited one of the showcase SAQ stores in downtown Montreal, but the average SAQ is certainly beneath the avg LCBO in most categories.

(What I know - LCBO vs SAQ - very generally: less selection in SAQs, higher beer and wine prices, cheaper spirits, shorter opening hours and more holidays.)

Good tip about Crossroads - if I do have a chance, I'll be sure to go and pick up some of NonDoc's errant cargo.

Edited March 16, 2006 by KevV (log)