AOC St. Emilion Grand Cru

[ctgm]

I was just posting my thoughts on another wine forum (with perhaps slightly less passionate forumites than here) and was wondering whether I am just being a grumpy old man when it comes to AOC St. Emilion Grand Cru.

To me this is 100% misleading and verges on trying to con the consumer into thinking that they are getting something better than they are. ("Oh it's a St. Emilion Grand Cru, it must be good!")

While I have no problem with the St. Emilion Grand Cru Classe, it seems that the quality there is well regulated, the non Classe wines seem to be playing more on the appellations name than the quality of their wines. I know that this is a generalisation but I really do think that something should be done about this AOC.

Any thoughts similar to mine?

[Brad Ballinger]

The wine from St. Emilion have always been a strange breed in terms of labeling. Shunned in 1855, they didn't "classify" until 1954. The classification (unlike the wines of the Medoc, with the noted exception of Mouton Rothschild) can be re-evaluated every ten years. The last revision I'm aware of was in 1994 unless one has occurred recently.

Whereas the Medoc has five levels of growths, St. Emilion has three levels of "grand cru." They are Premier Grand Cru Classe (e.g., Ausone, Figeac), Grand Cru Classe, and Grand Cru. This last classification has about 200 wines in it. But that can change year in and year out because chateaux that are in the Grand Cru classification must re-apply every year to maintain that status. I don't know if the other classifications have such a requirement (although, as I mentioned, the whole list from top to bottom can be re-evaluated every ten years). With so many wines in the Grand Cru classification, I don't doubt that there is going to be a huge variation in quality.

[jrufusj]

Brad:

I'm so terribly out of date. I'm going to show my ignorance with this question, but here goes. Didn't there used to be a distinction within Premier Grand Cru Classé? Namely, weren't Cheval Blanc and Ausone called "Premier Grand Cru Classé A" and Figeac, et. al., called "Premier Grand Cru Classé B" or something similar? Or am I confusing this or just making it up in my mind? If it did exist, is it still true?

(I'm not at home at the moment so don't have any books with me.)

Oh well, just a petty point anyway.

At any rate, I'm not troubled by the current classification system for several reasons. First, I know generally how it works so I'm not "tricked" by the plain Grand Cru level. Second, I don't buy much St. Emilion anyway, so I'm not much affected.

However, I do understand that this could confuse other people.

Is it "wrong"? I don't think so, as long as the rules are clear and are followed. Is it smart? Not if it leads people to be disappointed with what they may be led to believe is the best of St. Emilion.

Now, I'm not a garage wine fan at all, but I do think that whole movement stands the classification on its ear. There are people making very serious wines (though not typical of the appellation or to my taste) that have no standing at all.

Good question, ctgm.

Jim

[Brad Ballinger]

Brad:

I'm so terribly out of date.  I'm going to show my ignorance with this question, but here goes.  Didn't there used to be a distinction within Premier Grand Cru Classé?  Namely, weren't Cheval Blanc and Ausone called "Premier Grand Cru Classé A" and Figeac, et. al., called "Premier Grand Cru Classé B" or something similar?  Or am I confusing this or just making it up in my mind?  If it did exist, is it still true?

←

Jim,

Yes, I believe it still exists. I didn't go into the detail for two reasons -- 1) it could just be too geeky; and 2) I don't think "A" or "B" are part of the labeling regs, but just separate categories of the Premier Grand Cru Classe classification (but perhaps I'm wrong about that). Ausone and Cheval Blanc are the only two "A" chateaux, and there are nine "B" producers (don't ask me all their names -- I only know of Figeac, La Gaffeliere, and Pavie off the top of my head).

[jrufusj]

Jim,

Yes, I believe it still exists.  I didn't go into the detail for two reasons -- 1) it could just be too geeky; and 2) I don't think "A" or "B" are part of the labeling regs, but just separate categories of the Premier Grand Cru Classe classification (but perhaps I'm wrong about that).  Ausone and Cheval Blanc are the only two "A" chateaux, and there are nine "B" producers (don't ask me all their names -- I only know of Figeac, La Gaffeliere, and Pavie off the top of my head).

←

Brad:

I'd have to look, but I think you're right. I don't think I've ever seen the "A" or "B" on a label.

Call me geeky! Try as I might, the geekiness sometimes just slips out. Better geeky than senile, I guess. (Though I fear I may be both!)

Jim

[SBonner]

I'm a fan of St. Emilion but I think the whole Right bank classification system hangs onto the Left bank classification coat tails. I think both systems could do with a shake up and a few changes but in general I pay little attention to the St. Emilion system.

Cheers,

Stephen

Vancouver

[mangosteen]

I was in Saint-Emilion this weekend and so I took advantage of my trip to ask Frans Roskam, the winemaker at Chateau Cantenac, some questions about the Grand Cru appellation. The following is based on my notes of his perspective on the subject.

In the Saint-Emilion area there are two appellations: Saint-Emilion and Saint-Emilion Grand Cru. Only within the Grand Cru appellation is there a hierarchical classification (Premier Grand Cru Class A, Premier Grand Cru Classe B, and Grand Cru Classe) and the qualification system for the Grand Cru appelation is more rigorous than for simple Saint-Emilion. The Saint-Emilion Grand Cru appellation is the only Bordelais appellation where there are two tastings per vintage to qualify the wine. The first is to verify that the wine has a sufficient quality to age (done in Spring following harvest). The final tasting takes place within 2 months of bottling (after approximately 18 months of aging) and verifies straight-up quality. Other bordelais appelations (such as Margaux, Pauillac, Saint-Julien) do only the first of these two tastings, so any aging related issues, such as Brettanomyces would not be evaluated. Therefore the Grand Cru designation is a regional appellation but their are significant quality controls to pass for the right to put the designation on your label each year.

The last re-classification of the Grand Cru Classe's was done in 1996 and the union has started the process to redo the classification this year. The last ten vintages of a chateaux' wines (1993 to 2003 this time) are tasted to evaluate whether a property should remain in it's current classification. Not only the quality of these wines but also the history and image of the chateau (including the selling price), the terroir, and the winemaking facilities of the winery are considered. Most important are wine quality, terroir and selling price. If a chateau would like to enter it's vineyard into a higher category they will submit a justifying presentation (I'm having trouble translating "dossier") on their property including soil analyses, media publications, tasting notes, and distrubution details. Frans says in fact that "Everyone in the classe group presents a dossier" just for insurance. Especially those wineries that have had some recent trouble with the quality of their wines will be sure to submit some justification for the problems and some explanation about how they plan to rectify them. The example I remember from this year's re-classification was Canon.

Frans pointed out some strengths of the Saint-Emilion classification procedures. Foremost is the fact that the classification is redone every 10 years. The annual judgments of the 1855 classified wines are based on the same criteria as other wines in the same appelation, i.e. Chateau Margaux is tasted by the Margaux appellation union using the same criteria as any other generic Margaux and then because of their 150-year old first growth designation they are entitled to put "Grand Cru Classe" on their labels. In the Saint-Emilion Grand Cru Classe judgment a specific vineyard is classified, rather than a chateau (as in the Medoc) so a winery cannot purchase adjacent land and then add it to their production. In fact Beausejour-Becot lost their classification for 10 years after buying the Trois Moulins' vineyards and then including it in their Beausejour-Becot labelled wine. Certain chateaux that were classified in 1855 started out with 15 hectares and now make wine from much larger properties.

I hope some of these insights are helpful and interesting.