Gramercy Tavern

[Rachel Perlow]

Why didn't your companion (or you) indicate that you didn't want any more wine? I don't drink much wine (I'll usually take just a short initial glass), so am frequently having to tell servers not to give me any more. No one's tried to give me more after I've asked them not to.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I unfortunately have to report that I had an exceptionally mediocre meal at GT last month. It was a Saturday night and they were busy so I will cut them some slack. But the quality was less than is acceptable for a place of that magnitude in NYC.

[Kikujiro]

RPerlow: well, neither of us had stopped drinking entirely. I was drinking at a reasonable pace; my companion rather less so. The point was not the waiter's failure to notice that we'd stopped drinking, the point was that he kept refilling our glasses to higher and higher levels, without any regard for what we were doing. As I say, over the first two courses the wine went from properly-poured to horribly overfull. If the glasses had stayed at the same level throughout, that would have been good service.

I think I did drop a few (increasingly bad-tempered) hints to the waiter, but they were missed in his urgency to finish the (not wholly inexpensive) bottle.

[tommy]

I think I did drop a few (increasingly bad-tempered) hints to the waiter, but they were missed in his urgency to finish the (not wholly inexpensive) bottle.

being direct is often a better choice than bad-tempered hints.

[tommy]

i had to cancel my previous reservation at GT due to illness, so i was really excited when macrosan wanted to go and we snagged an almost last-minute 6 pm reservation.  (in lieu of GT, following the "illness", i had gone to another favorite, Tabla, and left happy, but not blown away).

anyway, i was not blown away at GT this time either (my last visit didn't leave a great impression).  yes yes, the company was wonderful, and we had a great time.  but i keep on expecting more service-wise from this place, and i just don't think it lived up to my expectations.  

the wine service in particular seemed a bit lacking.  i appreciate when a sommelier approaches the table.  i had to ask for one this time around, as the server admitted to knowing little about what i was asking for after brief questioning.  and believe me, i'm not a guy who knows or cares enough to bust balls about vintages or producers...i just wanted to know if they had any liore reds.  it just seemed like an extra step that i would have just as soon done without.  at this point, you get the feeling like you're being a pain in the arse, rather than being pampered and helped.  

once again i got a funny feeling when we ordred cheese.  that might be attributed to the fact that i was feeling pretty "loose", or it might be because there was actually a funny vibe coming from our server.  perhaps stef or macrosan will correct me if i'm being over-sensitive, but i really got the impression that the server felt like he was simply going out of his way to bring the cheeses over and explain each of them.  hell, i don't even *like* cheese very much, but take 2 minutes out of your very busy schedule and humor me, aye?

overall, a wonderful meal, a great night that i wouldn't take back for anything, and not too expensive either.  i'll return to GT, but only because it's GT.  but not before i try blue hill, craft, and the numerous other restaurants that have opened in the last 2 years that i haven't yet tried.

[stefanyb]

Now I am posting this after Mac and Tommy but I concurr with everything they said.

This waiter made it quite obvious that he didn't want to bring over the cheese board.  His spiel about each of the cheeses was perfunctory, at best, and his general demeanor was annoying.  It was not Tommy's imagination.

I had a great time despite the waiter but why should it be necessary to make this statement?

[macrosan]

Reading Tommy's post, I have to agree that I wasn't "blown away" this time either, and it was the service that made the difference (on my last visit we were  served by Christopher Russell, and the difference on this occasion was very marked).

I wasn't aware at the time of Tommy's problems ordering the wine (just shows how well he fulfilled the duty) but he was absolutely right about the way our server seemed taken aback by a request for the cheeseboard. Stefany and Mrs Tommy both declared they wanted cheese. At one point Tommy said he did, then he changed his mind. Immediately, the server seemed to be relieved that the cheese order was cancelled, and quite peeved when we said the other two still wanted it.

Incidentally, the highlight of the cheeseboard was the presence thereon of a generous chunk of Cabrales  

I said in my post that the service was "cloying" and this was symptomized by the server, when I asked for the tapioca dessert, telling me how it was his favorite. I do hate it when they do that, because firstly it's patronizing nonsense, and secondly it's frankly of no interest or value to me to know what this guy likes. I remember I got the same in Club Gascon in London when the waiter said the wine I ordered was his favorite  :confused:  --- he'd probably never even tasted it.

My comment to Tommy about the service on the night was that it was clear the staff were trained to deliver good service, but "style" was something a person either did or didn't have to start with, and lack of "style" would never be compensated for by any amount of training.

[tommy]

My comment to Tommy about the service on the night was that it was clear the staff were trained to deliver good service, but "style" was something a person either did or didn't have to start with, and lack of "style" would never be compensated for by any amount of training.

and unfortunately for me, or perhaps for GT at this point, this was the same guy that i had the last time...and i was quite let down then as well.  is there a way to request that you *don't* get a specific server?  :wow:

[Christopher]

 is there a way to request that you *don't* get a specific server?  

Sure, do just that. You have to know the name though!

[yvonne johnson]

I agree with tommy that being direct is a good thing (nod to waiter, stop hovering over us), but without wanting to detract from Suzanne F's enjoyment of GT, I'm in total agreement with Kikujiro: the service at GT is so overbearing it literally (yes, true) puts one off one's food. I think it was Robert Brown (and his wife) who summed it up. GT's service is aimed at putting at ease people who feel uncomfortable dining out.

[macrosan]

I sympathize with Kikujiro and his over-zealous waiter. The problem is that if you're chatting at the table, you often don't notice the ewaiter's pouring the wine till too late. Taking the waiter's side, if he doesn't pur the wine unbidden, some people may object that they're not getting his attention.

Maybe restaurants could supply a nice "lid" which you can place on the top of the glass when you don't want any more.

[Kikujiro]

Thanks for the sympathy Without wishing to flog a dead waiter here, the problem with just being direct is that as the guy in question just kept refilling regardless of the level of wine in our glasses, he was either (a) simply bad at his job or (b) trying to get us to drink more quickly. So it was hard to ask him to stop without being at least implicitly critical (maybe this is just a British concern of mine ...) and I didn't want to sour things as he was otherwise very pleasant and I wanted to have an untroubled meal in other respects ...

Oh yeah: and it was my friends restaurant recommendation, and I didn't want him to feel criticised either, yadda yadda. Life is so complicated.

[cabrales]

SobaAddict70 and I had dinner at Gramercy Tavern Thursday night. We saw flaws in at least one of the non-dessert dishes we each took in. For me, the meal overall was fairly good, taking into account Fleming's well-calibrated lemon dessert.

Below were the items taken in:

(1) Marinated Hamachi with Roasted Beets and Lemon Vinaigrette

[seared Foie Gras with Cherries, Dandelion Greens, Onion Soubise and Balsamic Vinegar ($10 supp), with non-Parce Banyuls]

I was looking forward to this dish, which the 2001 NY Guide to NYC Restaurants had described it thus: Colicchio's "best dishes take flavor to extremes. Mainated hamachi is brushed with lemon and olive oil; roast beets and herbs are scattered across the top. The clean, fresh taste of the fish comes soaring through with the clarity of a flute."

For me, the hamachi appetizer was average. Four or five slices, each double the thickness of sashimi, were set forth amidst the described accompaniments. I would have liked greater tartness in the lemon vinaigrette, and found the saucing for this dish somehow disconsonant with the taste inherent in the yellowtail. With this I took in a US all-Chardonnary sparkling wine.

(2) Organic Chicken with Mild Mushrooms and Roasted Vegetables

[Roasted Rabbit with Olives, Shallots, Galic and Rosemary, with a Cote Rotie]

I liked my chicken main, which was accompanied by a good amount of appropriately prepared morels, cremini and shiitake. The saucing was a jus reduction. The chicken, while not as flavorful as Bresse chicken, did have the appropriate flavors, and it was moist and well-prepared. Interestingly, there was not a noticeable amount of fat lodged between the flesh and the skin. Partially in view of that, the skin tasted slightly different, but in a good way. I chose a California Chardonnay by the glass. I sampled a bite of Soba's rabbit dish -- tender, but noticeably oversalted. I defer to Soba for the description.

(3) Lemon Souffle Tart, with Lemon Verbena Ice Cream and Lemon Confit

[Peach Tatin, with Black Pepper Parfait, Whit Peach Sorbet and Basil Syrup]

It is telling of the meal overall that Fleming's lemon dessert was the best dish in it. The warm lemon cake (neither a souffle nor a tart, in the commonly-understood sense of either word). The lemon verbena ice cream was perfumed, and was more sugarly than I had expected. This was a nice element when taken with the lemon souffle tart. Overall, a delicious dessert. I had a Glass of Rivesalte.

[Degustation]

This was part one of my Memorial Day dining weekend – see this link to access descriptions of the other meals. (Dim Sum GoGo, Fleur de Sel, Bouley)

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=8050

Since I was going to see Proof that evening, I booked my reservation for 5:30. I was prepared to order the $65 set dinner, but the waiter assured me that even the tasting menu was possible for my time constraint. Throwing caution to the wind, and possibly incurring indigestion, I instructed her to bring forth the tasting.

I wanted to have some wine with each course but was hesitant to gulp down five full glasses, lest that would knock me into a coma during the play. So I compromised on having the wine as tastings instead. Even though they were smaller portions, I appreciated the fact that at each time, the waiter presented the bottle and allowed me a sample to approve before pouring the complete serving.

Spring Tasting Menu

Amuse-gueule: lobster and fava bean paste on toast

1) Torchon of foie gras with rhubarb, pistachio, and mustard greens

Scheurebe Auslese, Dienheimer, Tafelstein, Bruder Dr. Becker, 1999 Rheinhessen

A perfectly round, evenly pink slice of the torchon was nestled in a mixture of diced rhubarb and mustard greens with a sprinkling of pistachios. The combination was an interesting fusion of flavours and textures; the creamy, silky foie gras was sharply heightened with the fresh, crunchy, sweet and sour tang of the other ingredients.

2) Langostino with sweet pea ravioli

Riesling Spatlesse, Westhofener Morstein, Witman, 2000 Rheinhessen

A succulent, plump langostino atop of the ravioli, and the light, frothy butter sauce created an ethereal composition that was accentuated with a sprinkling of bright green peas. The langostino was firm, yet moist, and the peas offered bursts of sweetness through the buttery sauce. The ravioli was al dente, acceptable, but not memorable.

3) Dover sole with morels and asparagus

Chassagne-Montrachet, 1er cru Vide Bourses, Marc Colin, 1998, Cote de Beaune

Three squarish pieces of Dover sole with skin intact were arranged on a bed of morels and asparagus, with finely chopped ramps scattered on top. My first impression of the sole was of light, delicate flavours on the tongue, which was then startled by the hint of salt sprinkled on top. The tender, crisp asparagus and earthy, spongy morels completed this very clean dish.

4) Braised fresh bacon with chestnut honey-glazed turnips and mostarda

Syrah, Jaffurs 2000, Santa Barbara County

The slab of fresh bacon was surrounded by the mostarda, and accompanied with bitter mustard greens and two thin slices of glazed turnips. The mostarda combined citrus fruits, pineapple, fennel, and mustard seeds. It was a complex mixture of sweet, dense flavours intertwined with bitter citrus essences, which served to cut through the richness of the meat. Each bite of bacon conveyed a sensation of the thin layers of fat gently dissolving over the tender, smokey meat. I was pleasantly surprised that it was neither too salty nor too greasy.

5) Rack of Lamb with fennel, Nicoise olives and tomatoes

Domaine de Trevallon 1995 Provence

A substantial lamb rib chop from the rack was presented with a slice of roasted fennel, and a brown sauce with black olives, sun-dried tomatoes, and sweet peas. The tender, farm-raised Connecticut lamb was cooked medium rare as requested. The nuance of fat contributed to the juicy flavour, but somehow I did not find this hunk of meat as tasty as others I have had. I did enjoy the robust brown sauce, which was a bold combination with the bitter, salty olives, fruity sun-dried tomatoes, and intensely sweet peas laced with the licorice undertones of the fennel.

6) Lemon grass soup with diced pineapple and quenelle of lemon grass sorbet

A very light and refreshing palate cleanser. Not as outstanding as the melon soup at Bouley.

7) Lemon tart souffle with ginger ice cream

The delicate miniature lemon soufflé tart was sitting in a pool of rose coloured strawberry soup scattered with pistachios, and served with a quenelle of ginger ice cream. It was a pleasurable mixture of flavours – sweet, spicy, salty and tart sensations with each mouthful. I thought this was excellent and it definitely was the best dessert of all those sampled over the weekend.

8) Mignardises

Chocolate ganache in a chocolate pastry shell

Lemon meringue tart

Dark chocolate truffle filled with chocolate hazelnut ganache

Fine for what they were.

$165 (includes tasting menu, five tasting sizes of the wines, espresso, taxes, and tip)

Service was excellent, though at times a bit overwhelming with several bodies throwing themselves at my table at any indication that a task needed to be performed. To be fair, I did appreciate that they were trying to get me out on time since I had outrageously ordered a tasting to be completed in two hours.

It was a bit amusing when one of the runners was trying too hard to be ingratiating as she gushed out cloying compliments. However, the server was very professional, offering polite guidance throughout – for instance suggesting the lemon tart was a better choice since the chocolate molten cake was not quite up to snuff compared to similar desserts she had sampled. She also apologized profusely when she immediately noticed the runner had brought me a single instead of a double espresso.

Though the dishes were well prepared, I thought the overall dining experience was underwhelming, and not as interesting compared to similarly priced tastings. Even the descriptions of the regular menu items sounded more inviting, but I would have to try a prixe fixe meal to make a proper comparison.

[Jordan Lea]

The GT is day in, day out probably my favorite restaurant in NYC thus I have to keep it simple. Eat in the bar ; at the bar if you can. The bacon is always a winner. I have to plan on about $65.00 per person with three courses, wine, a drink or two, tips, etc.

I listed GT as my #1 in this years zagat's survey but I do love pearl oyster bar and corner bistro.

[SobaAddict70]

SobaAddict70 and I had dinner at Gramercy Tavern Thursday night. . . .

Where to begin, where to begin?

I don't drink out of personal preference and my experience at GT confirms why. It used to be discomfort with the effects of alcohol, now it has a lot more to do with the TASTE of wine than anything else. That said, I think I'll stick to mineral water in the future, which is what I usually drink anyway, when I'm dining out. Evian/Pellegrino/Perrier, or something of that ilk. Side note: I have visions of some French chef coming at me with a cleaver, saying "sacre bleu, mon dieu" but whatever.

In retrospect, the foie gras, while daring in composition -- seared foie gras, glazed cherries, a drizzle of balsamic vinegar over dandelion greens, and the onion soubise -- I couldn't get away from a slight oiliness that permeated the entire dish, something that wasn't apparent until a few hours in retrospect. Overall, nicely balanced, especially the cherries as a foil to the foie gras, but I could have done without the oily feeling/aftertaste.

As for the rabbit, there was an inherent problem with oversalting. Nicely roasted rabbit; however, the entire dish was overwhelmed with oversalting, both in the sauce and the olives. I've had a similar version of this dish at Craftbar, and there, the equivalent suffered from a surfeit of underseasoning. I'm not sure how the kitchen could have corrected their version, except to restrain the use of salt in the dish, knowing that the olives have an inherent saltiness to them.

The peach tatin was your classic textbook fruit tatin with a crisp, flaky pastry base burgeoning with perfect slices of glazed peaches; accompanied by the black pepper ice cream and white peach sorbet, I'd say this part of the meal more than made up for the shortcomings in the rabbit. As for cabrales' dessert, I should note that there is a similar version at Eleven Madison Park that contains a lemon souffle tart, crepes with a lemon curd filling and light syrup glaze, a quenelle of lemon sorbet and unsweetened whipped cream.

[Rachel Perlow]

I have recently been chastised for not posting about our Gramercy Tavern experience in a GT thread. So, here is what I posted in the Crisis Management thread about our dinner on June 25th.

What?! You all went to bed and no one wrote about our meet & greet tonight? Well, I'm up early, cause I woke up early, and stayed up because I gotta take Jay to the airport in an hour and if I go back to sleep that'll be a problem. Four hours sleep? I'm crazy.

OK - it was great seeing you all last night. Sorry we were late but you all know why. Hi to everyone I'd seen before (Yvonne, Glen, tommy, jhlurie, Wilfrid, Cabrales, AHR); and a special Hi and Welcome to those I met for the first time (Nina, Lizziee, Blondee, ngatti). Did anyone else show up after we left around 11PM?

I've decided not to do yet another new thread praising Gramercy Tavern. Their heads'll get too swelled! Seriously, everything was perfection. There are not enough adjectives to describe how wonderful Christopher is as both a server and teacher. The food was all delicious, as were the wines and cocktails. Yes, we had the tasting menu, substitutions were made to accomodate Jason's predilictions. Christopher selected wines by the glass for Jason (although not the actual sommalier, he is very knowledgeable about wines). Yes, we had the cheese course, including cabrales, which Christopher was very delighted to explain in detail.

BTW - JIC C.R. is not available the night your are going to GT (if you want to request a specific server when making a reservation), may I suggest Valeria? She is soon to be promoted to Captain and is every bit as polished and wecoming as her mentor. Also, if you call for a reservation and 5:30 or 6 PM is your only option, take it. A leisurely paced meal, especially if you want to do the tasting menu and cheese, can take 3 hours (we were there for 3.5 hours).

Addendum: I believe it has been mentioned elsewhere, or at least known that Christopher is no longer at GT. He has been promoted to Front Manager/Maitre'D at Union Square Cafe. We wish him much success with his new job.

[Orik]

We had dinner at GT tonight. Thought it was nice, but certainly not matching the accolades. Service, while being better trained than most, was still as clueless as it ususally is in new york. They managed to bring us the check before the dessert ("50 people asked for the tasting at the same time, you see, I'm embarrased, folks"), the wine just after the appetizer and the petits fours never came. Soft shell crabs were obviously not selling very well, leading to a long lecture about their greatness as appetizers and/or entrees. As for the food, I would probably like their fresh bacon served with a sauce and side made for blue hill's pork belly and their langoustine sauced by pierre gagnaire or any serious french chef and not swimming in watercress juice. It may be a trait of the new american kitchen, but the proteins were all around excellent and well prepared while sauces and sides seemed mediore at best. The espresso was good, a rarity.

Finally, after our bottle of mineral water was depleted, our water glasses were filled once again. I apologize to whoever paid for the water we got.

[tommy]

Soft shell crabs were obviously not selling very well, leading to a long lecture about their greatness as appetizers and/or entrees.

i'm always curious as to why people make this connection.

[Orik]

Soft shell crabs were obviously not selling very well, leading to a long lecture about their greatness as appetizers and/or entrees.

i'm always curious as to why people make this connection.

I think after people hear often enough how a restaurant is just a business meant to pack as many of them into the least possible time-space and serve them food at 3 to 4 times the food cost, they start making this connection.

If I would believe our server was doing much more than just reading a script and that given the choice he would actually like to have the soft shell crabs over anything else in the menu, I might have thought the crabs were astonighingly good, but cynical old me can't believe this was the case.

[tommy]

...but cynical old me can't believe this was the case.

i'm sorry to hear that. especially considering that you feel that way about this particular restaurant, one which many would argue is one of the most outstanding in NYC, if not the country.

[Orik]

...but cynical old me can't believe this was the case.

i'm sorry to hear that. especially considering that you feel that way about this particular restaurant, one which many would argue is one of the most outstanding in NYC, if not the country.

I've even seen people claim that it is the best restaurant in the world. It is definitely a good restaurant that accomodates a wide range of dining experiences and makes an honest attempt at professional service, but there was nothing in the tasting menu yesterday that was "outstanding".

[Bux]

Tommy said "one of the," not "the best." Anyway I think his point is that just as one has to read between the lines of the menu, one has to filter the recommendations of staff according to who's speaking and where he's working. Chicken can be among the most tasteless and boring dishes on menus, but at GT it can be sublime because of the source of raw products and the skill of the kitchen. Chicken on their menu, as I once was reminded by someone with no connection to the restaurant has a whole different meaning than it might elsewhere. By the same token, so do the words spoken by staff.

The person who insisted I order the chicken at GT also told me to understand that when a waiter says "I highly recommend the special today," it means they are overstocked and he's been told to push it. Yet, I see that same person react positively to recommendations at certain restaurants. You have to make these decisions on an individual basis and maybe it's not just on a restaurant by restaurant basis, but on a waiter by waiter basis. If you're a regular and the waiter is eager to keep your business and increase tips he's going to be straight about his recommendations. If he isn't, you're probably going elsewhere next time. Anyway, I've found GT staff, even in the tavern room, quite sincere.

[John Whiting]

For me, the remarkable thing about GT is that they have become and remained a huge success by behaving in an old-fashioned manner which smart operators tell us is a recipe for failure. Honesty? Sincerity? Moderation? Naturalness? Forget it! You've got to be loud, forceful, ruthless, cutting edge -- just like Enron, Anderson and WorldCom!

[Christopher]

You have to make these decisions on an individual basis and maybe it's not just on a restaurant by restaurant basis, but on a waiter by waiter basis.

YES! YES!

If there is any repetition in my life it's the following phrase: "Service is not a rubber stamp" or, as Hyman Spotnitz would say "follow the contact"

I take personally the statement: when a waiter says "I highly recommend the special today," it means they are overstocked and he's been told to push it. and find it irresponsible, reductive, and a gross generalization. Take a look at the first line of the first post of this thread: Of special note are the dishes Christopher steered me to that we weren't originally going to order.

Some years ago Danny Meyer went around the country asking two questions

1. Define a great steak.

2. Define great service.

From region to region the definition of a great steak was very similar. The characteristics for great service varied wildly among the respondents.

As has been mentioned here, I have moved into management at Union Square Cafe. Same owner, same city, same neighborhood! And they define the technical aspects of great service in a different manner from GT. (The core tenet is the same and will be in bold face at the end of this meandering rant) So it follows that there is a completely different clientele. I can say this, there is very minimal overlap between restaurants. There are guests who swear by GT, there are those who swear by USC and so on. I'd love to get them in a room together and watch the debate.

But even staying within the same restaurant as this conversation does, we have different experiences. I remember in another thread someone expressing displeasure at the way GT presents service. I believe the word was overbearing This guest found the service experience at CRAFT much better and if I recall correctly, loved that the waiter could see that they were enjoying everything and had no need to come over and interrupt. (I paraphrase from memory)

I remember this post because it was a strong position that came out of direct experience. I loved it.

My objection to blanket statements, and hype: they have the potential of robbing you of your own experience. Especially of you're going after a sacred cow.

For example: I happen to think that the hype surrounding Oregon Pinot Noir is overdone. It's gotten to such a fever pitch that the generally accpeted wisdom from my guests is that all Oregon Pinot Noirs are superior to the rest of the marketplace. I see it differently, I think they made a big splash inasmuch as the initial level of quality was surprising in an upstart region, but I haven't experienced much growth or improvement since then. Lot's of laurel resting if you get my drift.

However, it would be grossly irresponsible for me as a waiter to make that blanket statement to my guests. Why would I want to rob them of making their own discoveries? Of having separate ideas?

I wrote this for two reasons.

1. To be provocative, challenging and aggressive so as to stir the pot. ( Irreverence is my favorite word)

2. To tie this back to where we began. You sit at my table and order a bottle of something from the Willamette valley. I bring it, I serve it, and you love it. Who am I to editorialize on your choice?

OR

You sit at my table and ask for a recommendation or for my thoughts, and then you get them. I FOLLOW YOUR CONTACT.

As far as I remember, I did not heavy-handedly force hamachi on Beachfan. We entered into a dialogue and, in listening to where he wanted to go, gave him my opinions.

He will tell you that I was not successful on all of the dishes and I really struck out on the wine with his guest. Nobody bats 1000. The deal is though, I believe that he, and any others I have served, experienced two things, (And this is it! This is the rub and this is the currency I trade in, as does any successful service person in any aspect of hospitality.)

You need to feel Well taken care of, whatever that means to you and that the server is on your side, whatever that means to you

End rant.

Off soapbox.

Enjoy July 4th!