Ping Pong

[origamicrane]

Here's my review of Ping Pong the latest dim sum restaurant in London.

It’s been open 5 days and look like its trying to muscle in on Hakkasan and Yauatcha territory.

It’s actually on the opposite block of Yauatcha less then 300 metre from it.

Looks like a 150 seater restaurant split across two floors.

Context: I am a dim sum expert! I have eaten in every dim sum restaurant in London worth its salt and eaten in some of the best in hong kong, singapore and vancouver. I eat dim sum every Sunday between 12 and 2pm without fail since I was 5!! So what I say in this review goes!! ignore it at your peril!!

Dim sum in my book is synonymous to sushi. In sushi each grain of rice has too be cooked properly, the seasoning should be just right, the temperature needs to be at body temperature, the sushi chef has to use a combination of different old and new rices to get the right aroma and texture, he has to apply the right amount of pressure to mould the rice, has to get hold of the right maturity of nori sheets and has to form the shape correctly.

In dim sum exactly the same philosophy, the quality of the ingredients, the seasoning, combination of ingredients, molding and assemble of the piece, the cooking, presentation, appearance all of it is important.

I demand high standards of dim sum!

Restaurant:

PING PONG

45 Great Marlborough Street

London

W1F 7JL

0207 851 6969

www.pingpong-group.com

Date & Time: Friday evening 7:30pm

Cast: Me and my pregnant friend

Decor: Ok black is still very in but its starting to get a little boring.

The exterior is a black facade with a big black door and a large glass pane looking over a counter area where you see a Chinese chef surrounded by bamboo steamers.

The interior is prerequisite black floor, black tables, black stools, black ceilings and white walls.

The Ground floor is a large room divided into 3 sections. As you enter the restaurant you walk down a gangway and on your right is a large black semi circular counter seating area where you see a chef surrounded by steamers and customers seated around the counter rather like a sushi bar counter.

Directly in front is another black semicircular counter area but this time its the bar and right at the back is another semi circular counter area and this where it gets quite special. This area over looks the basement dining area and a massive window onto a small water feature surrounded by bamboo and in the middle is a large white wall where they have a cinema projector playing "The House of Flying Daggers".

The Basement is a large dining area with 4 large round tables in the middle and tables for four against the walls

I like the interior design especially the projector screen its very cool.

Music was soundtrack from hero, crouching tiger, flying daggers and Buddha bar.

In the majority of Chinese restaurant the toilets are an afterthought. But in the current wave of fresh and funky dim sum places, they are trying to out do each other on the cool toilets. This place has got electronic slide doors on theirs?? What the?

Menu:

The menu is a list of 40 standard dim sum dishes with nothing that looks particularly interesting or new.

Prices range from £2.10-£2.90 but the majority of the dishes are £2.10 which looks cheap as most Chinese dim sum places in Chinatown are averaging at £2.50.

So we order:

Roast pork puff £2.10

The dishes arrive very quickly (>3 minutes) and that has already started alarm bells ringing in my head

The puffs are very standard run of the mill and in fact lacked the depth of flavor and sweetness and the puff pastry was heavy, not light and airy as I usually expect of this dish.

Har Gau prawn dumplings £2.30

Now here is were I start to become unimpressed.

In every and I do mean every dim sum restaurant.

There should be 4 dumplings but in this case there are only 3!! And that is why the prices look so cheap. this works out to be 30p more per dish over chinatown.

Flavour wise it is acceptable, unfortunately you can tell the ingredients aren't the best as it lacks that juicy prawn bounce texture and the pastry on the outside is too thick and lacks the translucent appearance of really good har gau plus the fact there are only 3 pieces.

Pork Shu mai £2.10

Same story again only 3 pieces when there should be 4!

And before anyone argues with me on this, don't!!

Dim sum is meant to be a family affair and as the average Chinese family is 2 kids, 4 piece portions are ideal!

And means you don't need to double up. Or is that some dumb ploy to get people to order more? well it only work if the food is excellent! so far, so bland!

Also the bamboo steamers they are using are the standard size and only having 3 pieces just blatantly looks like they are being tight!!

Shanghai siew long bun £2.10

again only 3 pieces and again the flavour is ok but again the pastry skin is of poor quality its like they either using brought in skins or they haven't worked the gluten enough as they break on contact, even though i given them time to cool and they are more then 3mm thick (yes dim sum can be that precise). So far I can conclude that they do have a Chinese dim sum chef but he is not all that good and he has probably only worked in cheaper establishments.

Deep fried Vietnamese spring rolls £2.30

And here where it gets even worse

Vietnamese spring rolls aren't meant to impotent!!

They are not meant to be droopy and flaccid!! These spring rolls look like they had been fried in oil that wasn't hot enough, reheated in a microwave been kept warm in a greenhouse or all three. Again the flavour was acceptable just that the texture and appearance wasn't.

Lotus leaf wrapped seafood sticky rice £2.30

Three small pieces again and they used two squares to wrap it tut!! tut!!

The rice disintegrated on contact with my chopsticks as they hadn't wrapped the rice correctly and I had given them a minute or two to cool.

The filling was bland and unidentifiable and the dried shrimps I did see were of low quality as they had been dyed and imparted their colour to the surrounding rice. My impression of the chef has slip by another 10 points.

Chicken feet black bean sauce £2.10

Ok here is where the kitchen redeemed themselves a little the chicken feet were actually ok but no better then any other decent dim sum place in London.

Jasmine chicken roll £2.30

Chicken breast spring rolls with some salty dipping sauce again they used low quality bought in pancake wrappers.

Condiments: chilli oil was standard bought in stuff heat but no flavour. The chilli paste on the other hand was much better might have been a bought in base with additional fresh ingredients.

Drinks:

jasmine flower tea £1.50 quite pretty but lacked flavour

pepsi £1.50

apple juice £2.00

still water £2.95

Total Bill: for 2 with drinks and a 10% service charge £28.77

seems ok right? but bear in mind that dim sum in phoenix palace, joy king lau, golden dragon, royal china, golden palace would have been better and would have been £3 cheaper.

Service: Good very attentive and very cheery. They had a lot of staff there,

I would say at least 20 working the floor.

and it was good to see some Chinese staff in a neo dim sum joint.

Value/Quality/Quantity ratio: below average.

Complaints: the place is cool, but the food is lacking. The pastry skins on all the dumplings weren't thin or strong enough. Presentation was no better then a standard Chinatown place but they are charging the same prices per dish but minus 1 piece. Today the temperature was 28C their aircon wasn’t strong enough as we were being cooked in there.

And the final nail for this place was after we finished eating here my pregnant friend was still hungry!! she's only 2 months gone but the lack of variety on the menu meant there was nothing on the menu we wanted to try, that we hadn't already tried. So we went down the road to RAN for kimchi, parjeon, bulgogi and squid which was excellent and was £28.50!!

Given the choice again I wouldn't go back to Ping Pong.

Nit picks: what is it with these new restaurants and their toilet fetishes?

They don't have an automatic front door so why do they need them on the toilets?

They only been open 5 days and yet the stairs look like they seen a years worth of traffic. The place is still new so staff are a little bit haphazard and unsure of themselves.

Conclusion: Alan yau need not worry! china town need not worry! the owners? now they need to worry!!

I was really looking forward to this place opening and giving alan yau a run for his money. I was hoping that another dim sum restaurant that was as good as yauatcha could only be a good thing and raise the bar higher for dim sum in London.

But unfortunately Ping Pong just doesn't deliver.

I'm not sure who was involved with the opening of this place but they are not going to get the suits or the foodies that head to hakkasan or yauatcha. They certainly not going to get the Chinese families that go to Chinatown with there 3 pieces per portion.

The place felt like a wagamama or a Yo sushi and if that’s the crowd they are after, then yes, they will get them. But in the long term the quality of the food just isn't good enough, it doesn't beat any of the Chinatown dim sum places in terms of quantity, quality or variety. In fact the harder dim sum dishes like cheung fun, yam croquette, turnip cake, etc were glaringly missing from the menu.

They won't last more then a year unless they get a much better chef

and get a food artist to work on the crockery and presentation.

If anyone from ping pong is reading this, pm me you guys need help as you are missing the basic philosophy behind dim sum ying/yang/family/quality/variety.

Edited May 28, 2005 by origamicrane (log)

[Scott]

thanks for taking the time to write such an intersting review.

where do you recommend for superlative dim sum?

[origamicrane]

hi Scott

thanks

glad someone is reading my very long reviews

my top dim sum restuarants in London are

1. Yauatcha, Soho

all day dim sum restaurant. Food is excellent i couldn't fault a single dish! easily the best in London by a few miles and pretty interior design.

But you are paying a price, it's double the cost that dim sum normally costs in London. I would say £30/person excluding drinks and service.

Oh! service is dire! and i mean it make won kei's look good.

you are also limited to 90 minute and you must book in advance.

2. Hakkasan, Tottenham Court Road

Yauatcha's big sister, so dim sum is as good but they have a few more dishes

the sticky rice with dried meats is the best i've ever had. But again you paying a premium, service is a little better then yauatcha but again you must book.

3. Golden Palace, Harrow

If you asked me to choose the best overall dim sum restaruant it would have to be Golden Palace in Harrow. I have been going there for years and they have always been consistently good. During weekend lunch times you find it full of chinese families. There will be a queue if you go after 12.30 but the wait for table is usually a max of 20 minutes. They also have a excellent vegetarian dim sum menu with about 9 mock-meat dishes. They also introduce new dishes every season and have special dishes during chinese festival such as new years and autumn moon festival.

They score a very good to excellent in terms of freshenss, quality, quantity, value, variety, service and consistency.

average price I would say is £12/person max again excluding drinks and service

Oh and you will find me there every sunday between 12 and 2pm

NB: their evening menu on the other hand is not as good.

4. Royal China, London

The Royal China group is excellent too in terms of flavour they actually have the edge on Golden Palace but they fall down on a lack of variety and new dishes, pricewise they are a little more expensive £14/person and where they really fall down is they have just a little too much MSG in their dim sum. You are left very thirsty after the meal. also waits for a table can be in excess of 45 minutes.

5. Pheonix Palace, Baker Street

The food is pretty good not as good as royal china or golden palace but they score points for a very large and spacious restaurant, cheaper then royal china, easy and free parking nearby on weekends, relaxed service. Price £12/head.

There is one thing i don't like about this place is their tea, it has a distinctive salty taste to it? I asked tham about this and they said they spoke to the water board about it and they said the water supply in that area for some reason has a salty taste? very wierd ?

you might have noticed none of my top 5 are in chinatown

and in fact most of the dim sum place in chinatown are very average

but there are a few that have a slight edge and they are

1. Golden Dragon/ Royal Dragon, Chinatown

Golden Dragon and Royal Dragon are next to each other in chinatown and in fact the food comes out of the same kitchen. Their dim sum is good but portions are too small for the prices they charge. £15/person. service can be erratic

2. Joy King Lau

probably the most consistent restaurant in chinatown, i've never had a bad meal here, they will never win a michelin star but they will never recieve a complaint letter either.

Edited May 29, 2005 by origamicrane (log)

[circeplum]

really interesting write-up, origami.

but i'm confused. i'm positive i've been served with only three pieces in chinatown restos - have had to double up on faves like roast pork puffs.

are they being tight too?

x

[jackal10]

You miss my favourite: New World in Gerrard Place in Chinatown.

Old fashioned trolley service. Much better IMHO than Royal China, and you can see what you are getting. Any reason for its omission?

[Matthew Grant]

really interesting write-up, origami.

but i'm confused.  i'm positive i've been served with only three pieces in chinatown restos - have had to double up on faves like roast pork puffs.

are they being tight too?

x

←

Agreed, I can't recall many, if any Dim Sum places in London serving 4 pieces Please advise of restaurants serving in 4's!

[origamicrane]

really interesting write-up, origami.

but i'm confused.  i'm positive i've been served with only three pieces in chinatown restos - have had to double up on faves like roast pork puffs.

are they being tight too?

x

←

Agreed, I can't recall many, if any Dim Sum places in London serving 4 pieces Please advise of restaurants serving in 4's!

←

opppsie!

sorry I should have clarified.

Stuff does come in three's or four's depending on the dish.

There are no rules but by my observations

deep fried and baked stuff like spring rolls and pork puffs come in 3.

Steamed dumplings usually with prawns in, like har gau, shu mai

I have only ever seen come in 4. (or could be they give me extra as i'm such a regular!!! well I do get free roast pork puffs at golden palace hehe)

Anyhoo I was surprised that ping pong's har gau and shu mai only came in 3.

when you are used to 4 pieces losing one is quite a shock!

Its like when ordering cheung fun and only getting two instead of three

(golden dragon does that tut! tut!)

Other steamed non-prawn dumplings or buns like chiu chow dumpling, siew long bun or scallop dumplings do come in 3.

have a look a these pics http://www.dimsum.com/ds1.html

I think these are pretty good representations of traditional dim sum and the pieces per dish.

I know i'm being picky here on 1 dumpling but for dim sum price/quality is important.

Ping Pong's qaulity just doesn't measure up to even the most average chinatown dim sum restaurant.

If they had yauatcha standards I be quite happy to pay double for 3 dumplings,

in fact i do.

[fisherman]

as far as i've experienced, dim sum comes in threes. obviously i don't have the wealth of experience that the writer of the review does, nor the arrogance. not wanting to discourage would be review writers, any restaurant reviews make interesting reading, but that piece of self-aggrandisement was painful

[origamicrane]

You miss my favourite: New World in Gerrard Place in Chinatown.

Old fashioned trolley service.  Much better IMHO than Royal China, and you can see what you are getting.  Any reason for its omission?

←

Sorry Jackal but i haven't been to New World in ages!

It used to good about 15 years ago then their chef left and the food crash dived

I mean it went from heaven to hell in the space of a week!! after that we never returned.

Since then I haven't been back as I haven't recieved any reports rating it.

Its like that in chinatown chefs come and go and we follow the recommendations for family and freinds

Also the trolley service has fallen out of favour with most chinese in London as it viewed that the food could have been in the trolley stewing for up to an hour before it gets to the table. Also you have to be seated near the kitchen to get the freshest dishes and it seen as a tourist attraction.

But if you saying its better then Royal China I might have to give it a visit again.

[origamicrane]

as far as i've experienced, dim sum comes in threes. obviously i don't have the wealth of experience that the writer of the review does, nor the arrogance. not wanting to discourage would be review writers, any restaurant reviews make interesting reading, but that piece of self-aggrandisement was painful

←

all restaurant reviewers are arrogant aren't they?

or is it just me ?

fisherman chill out

its only a restaurant review.

I'm sure there are certain topics you think you are an expert on

[Andy Lynes]

all restaurant reviewers are arrogant aren't they?

←

Not the good ones.

[origamicrane]

all restaurant reviewers are arrogant aren't they?

←

Not the good ones.

←

really?

hmm.. thats looks like a new thread to me..

anyhoo!

are you saying my review of the restaurant was inaccurate?

or that you just found the tone and demeanour objectionable?

if its the tone and demeanour I really can't help you on that

everyone has a style of writing and i'm afraid I just come across as arrogant,

although its not really meant to be. Its actually meant to be funny/sarcastic believe it or not! hence my numerous

Yes I know I come across as arrogant on this subjects but everything I have said is true. I have been to every dim sum restaurant in chinatown and most of the good ones in London, HK, SG and BC.

Does that make me qualified to claim i'm a dim sum expert? of course not!!

can an alcoholic claim to be a sommelier?

but are you really going to argue with a chinaman about chinese food?

ever tried arguing with a french man about french food?

anyway in real life I am a very nice chap!! really!! honest!!

ask Alexw.

I am Sam,

Sam I am,

I do not like green eggs and ham,

I do not like them Sam I am

[jennahan]

Along the subject of Dim Sum, you mentioned above that Royal China uses quite a bit of MSG in theirs. Can you recommend a good dim sum place where I can safely take my toddler? He is quite adventurous in his eating, and I want to keep encouraging it while I still can. He loves potstickers, sushi (veg and cooked), ravioli, and anything he can eat with his hands. I thought that taking him for dim sum would be great, but I'm worried about salt and additive content (he pretty much only eats organic, and usually home-cooked or good quality outside food). Do you know anyplace which would fit the bill?

[origamicrane]

Along the subject of Dim Sum, you mentioned above that Royal China uses quite a bit of MSG in theirs.  Can you recommend a good dim sum place where I can safely take my toddler?  He is quite adventurous in his eating, and I want to keep encouraging it while I still can.  He loves potstickers, sushi (veg and cooked), ravioli, and anything he can eat with his hands.  I thought that taking him for dim sum would be great, but I'm worried about salt and additive content (he pretty much only eats organic, and usually home-cooked or good quality outside food).  Do you know anyplace which would fit the bill?

←

MSG free dim sum hmmm... to be honest I really don't know!

Not even sure if Yauatcha or Hakkasan are MSG-free zones.

any takers?

The only restaurant that I know of that doesn't use MSG was Four Regions in County Hall but that was a few years ago not sure if that is still true now.

Give them a call to check 0207 928 0988

Actually Fay Maschler is barred from that restaurant as she gave it a bad review once upon atime they got a photo of her at the bar with the words "BANNED FOR LIFE!!" written on it in red felt tip The food there was fresh but as they didn't use MSG the flavour was a little muted.

I'll ask around for you but may take a few weeks for the info to trickle through.

[fisherman]

The food there was fresh but as they didn't use MSG the flavour was a little muted.

arrogance is never an attractive quality in a person, and thats certainly the impression i got from your writing, though it's something i've never found from the food writers i admire (matthew fort, jay rayner, hugh fearnley whittiningstall etc etc even gordon ramseys writing doesn't contain the arrogance his on-screen persona (and your review) does) but as i've never met you, and have enjoyed reading other posts you've made, i'm not going to waste time worrying about it

i'm more worried about the sentance i quoted above from your last post.... are you condoning the use of msg? should we all use msg if we can't make things taste good without it? does a good chef need to use chemical assistance, shouldn't his skill and the ingrediants he uses stop the flavour from being muted?

[origamicrane]

The food there was fresh but as they didn't use MSG the flavour was a little muted.

arrogance is never an attractive quality in a person, and thats certainly the impression i got from your writing, though it's something i've never found from the food writers i admire (matthew fort, jay rayner, hugh fearnley whittiningstall etc etc even gordon ramseys writing doesn't contain the arrogance his on-screen persona (and your review) does) but as i've never met you, and have enjoyed reading other posts you've made, i'm not going to waste time worrying about it

i'm more worried about the sentance i quoted above from your last post.... are you condoning the use of msg? should we all use msg if we can't make things taste good without it? does a good chef need to use chemical assistance, shouldn't his skill and the ingrediants he uses stop the flavour from being muted?

←

hehe ok! good! good!

fisherman my arrogant writing is just a result of my sarcastic sense of humour the post was liberally garnished with

everyone should take all my posts with a big! big!! pinch of MSG

I post on egullet for fun it helps speed the work day along.

I hope the stuff I posts entertains and once in a while maybe even informs

but never to offend any individuals.

Offending restaurants on the otherhand thats a different story.

Think of me as the opposite of Gordon Ramsay

now to MSG.

Do I condone its use? the answer is depends on the situation.

MSG in its pure form can be found in seaweed and I believe tomatoes (lecturer at leiths told me this, i don't know if its true).

For instance a lot of japanese dish start with a dashi base of bonito flakes and konbu and that is basically MSG in its natural form, would i condone its use in this situation yes definitiely.

And I believe most western soup stock need tomato or tomato puree to really make them intensely flavoured again thats ok by me.

I'm against MSG when it is overused to the point I get a MSG headaches.

I've had one of those once from a malaysian restaurant on Edgware Road I drank 2 litres of water in an hour and had a splitting headache for 4 hours!

Unfortunately the use of artifical chemcials is purely an economics thing. Food last longer, tastes better then it would otherwise and is cheaper.

Restaurants cook what the customer is willing to pay for, there is a section of the market that is unwilling to pay premium prices for skillful cooking with fresh ingredients.

This is the same arguement that exists for inorganic and organic food.

Should a farm need to use pesticide, insecticides and fertilisers?

no he shouldn't but he does less work get a better yield by using them

and we get cheaper food because of it.

Same with a chef the chemcials help him work more efficientlt and produce more profit for less expense in time and ingredients.

I accept the use of MSG in restaurant cooking but i would never use it for home cooking.

Edited May 31, 2005 by origamicrane (log)

[magnolia]

all restaurant reviewers are arrogant aren't they?

←

Not the good ones.

←

Oh, please...I guess you are being facetious?

[Andy Lynes]

Critics are arranged in order of arrogance from Micheal Winner (uber-arrogant) down to Terry Durack (not an arrogant bone in his body.) All the rest come in between but I'll leave it up to you to decide which order they go in.

[magnolia]

Critics are arranged in order of arrogance from Micheal Winner (uber-arrogant) down to Terry Durack (not an arrogant bone in his body.) All the rest come in between but I'll  leave it up to you to decide which order they go in.

←

Hmm...I might tied our AA with Winner. And I agree that Durack belongs at the other end of the scale. However - there's a lot of talent, and indeed a lot of arrogance among all the rest - and these two attributes are not inversely proportionate !

[circeplum]

Har Gau prawn dumplings £2.30

Now here is were I start to become unimpressed.

In every and I do mean every dim sum restaurant.

There should be 4 dumplings but in this case there are only 3!! And that is why the prices look so cheap. this works out to be 30p more per dish over chinatown.

just to add another tuppence worth to this, i had dim sum at new world in gerrard place at the weekend - and you don't get more old school or unreconstructed than this. it's one of only two, i think, trolley-style dim sum restos in town (the other is chuen cheng ku).

guess what? dim sum - all apart from har gau, weirdly - came in threes.

???

[origamicrane]

Har Gau prawn dumplings £2.30

Now here is were I start to become unimpressed.

In every and I do mean every dim sum restaurant.

There should be 4 dumplings but in this case there are only 3!!

Pork Shu mai £2.10

Same story again only 3 pieces when there should be 4!

context.

respectively.

capice?

mama mia! what a mistaka to maka!!

hehehe!!

[origamicrane]

just to add another tuppence worth to this, i had dim sum at new world in gerrard place at the weekend - and you don't get more old school or unreconstructed than this.  it's one of only two, i think, trolley-style dim sum restos in town (the other is chuen cheng ku).

guess what?  dim sum - all apart from har gau, weirdly - came in threes. 

???

←

btw

did the shu mai come in a 3 or 4?

how did you rate New World? good or bad?

[circeplum]

Har Gau prawn dumplings £2.30

Now here is were I start to become unimpressed.

In every and I do mean every dim sum restaurant.

There should be 4 dumplings but in this case there are only 3!!

Pork Shu mai £2.10

Same story again only 3 pieces when there should be 4!

context.

respectively.

capice?

mama mia! what a mistaka to maka!!

hehehe!!

←

eh?????

just to add another tuppence worth to this, i had dim sum at new world in gerrard place at the weekend - and you don't get more old school or unreconstructed than this.  it's one of only two, i think, trolley-style dim sum restos in town (the other is chuen cheng ku).

guess what?  dim sum - all apart from har gau, weirdly - came in threes. 

???

←

btw

did the shu mai come in a 3 or 4?

how did you rate New World? good or bad?

←

three...

and, post yauatcha and hakkasan, pretty badly. guess i've been spoilt. those shu mai were grim, like gnarly little testicles of gristle. shudder. and words fail me when it comes to a parcel of impacted rice that appeared to be stuffed with baby poo and mouse bones.

also, trolleys meant everything was kinda tepid. loved the experience, though. call me contrary.

[origamicrane]

nevermind i'm just being silly!!

so the shu mai also came in 3 ??! i'm shocked!!

yeah i didn't think new world would have improved greatly as it is very much a tourist attraction now.

although i went to cheung cheun ku a few weeks back and it was pretty ok stuff

nothing earth shattering but acceptable.

btw have you been to golden palace in harrow ?

its very good if you haven't

[circeplum]

nevermind i'm just being silly!!

so the shu mai also came in 3 ??!    i'm shocked!!

yeah i didn't think new world would have improved greatly as it is very much a tourist attraction now.

although i went to cheung cheun ku a few weeks back and it was pretty ok stuff

nothing earth shattering but acceptable.

btw have you been to golden palace in harrow ?

its very good if you haven't

←

i'm re-remembering. maybe they did come in fours.

and, no - i must try it.

x