[DFW] Zorba's

[Kevin72]

I'm wondering if once Zorba completes its expansion they'll be more accomodating of the separate check request?  May  be worth checking out.

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For what it's worth, I did and they still don't. But the place looks great; the staff and owners were fairly beaming with pride about it. Took another out of town guest there and they greatly enjoyed it as well.

[irodguy]

I'm wondering if once Zorba completes its expansion they'll be more accomodating of the separate check request?  May  be worth checking out.

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For what it's worth, I did and they still don't. But the place looks great; the staff and owners were fairly beaming with pride about it. Took another out of town guest there and they greatly enjoyed it as well.

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It really is to bad that they don't understand that it's customer service stupid... We used to go there 2 times a week with at least 10 people @ lunch. Now it's maybe once a month an more than likely just two of us.

[irodguy]

Yep you are absolutely correct. We went for lunch asked for seperate checks and they acted like we had just insulted their mother

I was just testing, I was actually planning on picking up lunch.

This is exactly why we have taken to driving the extra 15 minutes and going to Fadis in Frisco. Everybody pays for themselves and I can still have my Gyro.

[Kevin72]

That's really unfortunate that they won't make that last step.

Still, food-wise we were as pleased as ever. We're now 5 for 5 in taking a guest there and having them rave about the food. I had the lamb chops (a very generous portion of 5) and their roasted pepper feta, what my wife and I call "crack on pita".

[KatieLoeb]

The problem with separate checks is that the folks that want them expect all their food to come up at once for their large table and in a timely fashion. The only way to accomplish that is to ring everything onto one big ticket so the kitchen knows it's all the same table and has to go out together. Then the waiter has to use the POS system to open nine more blank checks and move each food item and each beverage onto each new check. Then print them out, one by tedious one. If that even takes one minute per customer, that waiter has now been off the floor for ten minutes tying up one of the terminals and ignoring their other customers and preventing their coworkers from using that terminal to order for their customers. It's an enormous pain in the ass and an inconvenience for every single other customer and staff member in the restaurant except for the priviledged party that can't seem to split a check without squabbling over pennies or add up what they've eaten, include a reasonable gratuity (err on the side of generosity) and leave the money.

[fifi]

I understand what Katie is saying. It seems to me that the problem is with the software that can't link individual checks to a table.

Fact: There is a customer demand for separate checks being handled.

Fact: Obviously, most software is not designed to accommodate this demand.

I think I sniff an opportunity here for a software entrepeneur to design a system that can overcome this.

[KatieLoeb]

I understand what Katie is saying. It seems to me that the problem is with the software that can't link individual checks to a table.

Fact: There is a customer demand for separate checks being handled.

Fact: Obviously, most software is not designed to accommodate this demand.

I think I sniff an opportunity here for a software entrepeneur to design a system that can overcome this.

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Precisely - you can split one big table into individual checks after the fact (slowly and tediously) but you can't ring in Table 10 - Check #1, Table 10 - Check #2, etc and have the system combine all of table 10 onto one ticket that goes back to the kitchen.

But opening and ringing in ten checks from the start is still more time consuming than starting just one check and ringing everything onto it at once. Our system (a recently updated Micros that I hate) has touch screen capabilities to choose and move each item. It still takes longer than I'm comfortable having a staff member not attending to their other customers and letting their food pile up on the line while they're hunting and pecking at the screen.

[Busboy]

I'm with Katie, especially for a table of 10(!). And, even if you can split the check electronically (think about juggling 10 checks during the lunch crunch) it still takes ten times as long to punch orders in andto ring the customers out, and the odds of somebody's beer ending up on somebody else's check escalate dramatically. Everything works better if the customers can just remember how to add and do their own check -- and not have a snit if they pad a buck more than "their share" for their gyro platter and coke.

[fifi]

Hmmm . . . A couple of years ago, I was in Aix au Provence for a company deal. We went to several restaurants as a group, needing separate tickets for expense account purposes. They didn't think it was such a big deal and handled it as if this was a normal thing. A couple of places even offered the separate check option at the get go. Do they have a better system?

edit to add: One thing that may not be obvious to restauranteurs is that many corporations have restrictions on "entertaining" entries on expense accounts. I know. It all comes out of the same bucket. But, I think the IRS rules get in the way. So, theoretically, I can't pick up the check for a lunch with colleagues and claim it on the expense account. If the lunch companions were from a different company, no problem. And the record keeping for the expense statements demand that you name all present and the affiliation. The rules are stupid but they are what they are. You have to have a receipt to accompany the entry in the expense account. That means that it is not as simple as dividing up the check and paying. You have to have a receipt for anything over $25.

Edited April 8, 2005 by fifi (log)

[wesza]

The problem with separate checks is that the folks that want them expect all their food to come up at once for their large table and in a timely fashion.  The only way to accomplish that is to ring everything onto one big ticket so the kitchen knows it's all the same table and has to go out together.  Then the waiter has to use the POS system to open nine more blank checks and move each food item and each beverage onto each new check.  Then print them out, one by tedious one.  If that even takes one minute per customer, that waiter has now been off the floor for ten minutes tying up one of the terminals and ignoring their other customers and preventing their coworkers from using that terminal to order for their customers.  It's an enormous pain in the ass and an inconvenience for every single other customer and staff member in the restaurant except for the priviledged party that can't seem to split a check without squabbling over pennies or add up what they've eaten, include a reasonable gratuity (err on the side of generosity) and leave the money.

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Kathie:

You are absolutely right a Restaurant server is not equipped to also be a Bookkeeper/Accountant especially since in the majority of separate check situations there are generally couples, or family members who may have shifted seats or more often shared dishes during the meal. How is any server expected to keep track of all the details such as who had had glasses from a bottle of wine being served to the table, after dinner drinks, shared deserts or appetizers.

With or without a computer is requires more time and effort to deal with a group. In many instances in surveys done in places who operate on a separate check policy there is almost always a lower tip provided to the server.

We always clearly wrote in large type on our Menus "NO SEPARATE CHECKS". We did provide customers with a Pad, Pencil and Calculator to work out who owed whatever and even were willing to accept separate "Credit Cards" to close out the sale but it generally effected the Tips received as it seemed that this kind of customer took advantage by not tipping the standard gratuity while groups that simply divided the check into a per person amount were generally more generous and everything was easily expedited.

I have seen servers frustrated and upset because after all the time being spent on trying their best to resolve a separate check situation they were often short changed by either leaving something out or getting confused and not collecting as much as they should have received.

How often even when customers decide to divide the check equally do you observe how upset those members of the group who tried to minimize their consumption, avoid appetizers, beverages or more expensive entrées felt like they were being "Victimized" or "Taken Advantage Of" by the members of the group who were simply trying to enjoy themselves. I always think to myself why go if you can't enjoy yourself, but I have been suckered several times where to avoid this type of crap I simply said "Bring me the Check" pay the bill and keep in mind to make sure to avoid the creeps in the future or have even requested that they sit by themselves in order to make sure that they are not being made to pay for anyone else's tab. Again I'm not forgiving in my social graces or affected politeness.

At "Seattle" eGullet get togethers I have noticed that even though there are several who don't Drink alcohol or eat as much as others there is never anything except everyone takes pleasure in sharing and being together plus we "ALWAYS BRING CASH" and tip very well, it works the best.

Irwin

[KatieLoeb]

Irwin:

Thanks for your support on this. Sometimes I feel like all I can hear is my own voice echoing through cyberspace.

If someone has a legitimate reason for requiring a separate check like an expense account or whatever, then whatever they ate can be rung onto a new check, the check printed, and then all the items voided off. Or another form of receipt can be provided I suppose, like those little tear off thingies on some restaurant checks. But unfailingly more often than not, it's about the customers being lazy and refusing to do their own math. Sometimes I eat less than my friends, and sometimes I eat more. We almost always split the check and just deal with it because it all works out over the grand scheme of things. I've had customer call for reservations for groups of say 12 persons, and I always suggest that we provide them with a limited menu that's priced per head so that the check can be split evenly at the end (after tax and an 18% large party gratuity has been added) and most importantly so that the host can enjoy themselves as well, without having to play accountant or referee for the nickel and diming bullshit that inevitably follows this sort of "coworkers-that-don't-really-like-or-trust-each-other-but-are-eating-together-to-pretend-they-do" sort of gathering. I mean really, does the entire restaurant have to suffer because these fools can't handle a simple lunch check?? Sheesh. It's preposterous.

How's this for a novel idea. Just ask the server to print out ten copies of the same check or even copies just for the folks that are actually claiming the expense?? Circle what you ate and have your secretary do the math. No one with an expense account ever does those reports themselves anyway. Hand it off to your lackey and don't fuck up my dining room when I'm slammed at 12:50PM during lunch, or in the middle of the dinner rush at 7:45 PM on a Friday night.

At "Seattle" eGullet get togethers I have noticed that even though there are several who don't Drink alcohol or eat as much as others there is never anything except everyone takes pleasure in sharing and being together plus we "ALWAYS BRING CASH" and tip very well, it works the best.

At our DDC dinners we specifically try to go to BYOB places. If not, we have a cash bar so that those who are drinking have no chance of doing so at the expense (literally) of those who are not. Works just fine.

[fifi]

So . . . How did all of those restaurants in France handle this so elegantly?

So, what is a corporate customer to do? The corporate and IRS rules that drive the corporate rules have to be dealt with. The reason this is a problem is that the IRS takes a dim view of lunch or dinner expenses for persons in the same company being claimed as an "entertainment" or "business meal" expense. And, those are the only categories that a single check for a group meal will fit. In a lot of corporations, what the secretaries (excuse me, Administrative Assistants) actually do is less and less. That leaves the poor corporate schlep to figure out how to do this. I have to say that when hosting a group meal, the issue has never been who ate or drank what. It has always been how to get it into the expense account software and receipt records.

I see this whole thing as a service that is needed, driven by forces out of the control of the customer. Though I have no clue as to the tax rules in France, they seem to have figured this out.

[emmapeel]

I think I comprehend what has been said, but when I eat with friends and we are "dutch" we get one check and hand over 2 or 3 credit cards to the waiter. It never seems to be problem. Granted, we are dividing equally (we don't care who ate or drank what), and we each get separate credit card receipts. Is this practice OK? Just curious. I've never sensed any annoyance from an establishment with this routine.

But since we're on the subject, I do get annoyed when a co-diner tries to get away with not paying their share (for argument's sake, let's say we're paying cash.) Said diner will have a $20 entree, $8 appetizer, $10 beverage and put $38 on the table. It infuriates me.... The other diners ususally take the hit, insuring adequate tax and tip, and then talk about Said diner like a dog. Are we chickens or are we civilized?

[KatieLoeb]

Splitting a check onto two or more cards is less difficult, particularly if you've merely said, "Put half on each card", or put "$65 on the Amex and $45 on the Visa please." You've done the work. My issue is with folks that come in and expect the waiter to solve their trust issues with their co-workers, NONE of whom are expensing the lunch or turning in the receipts, they're just too damned lazy to do the math themselves. But really the biggest issue is that EVERYONE'S service suffers while the tedious task is being carried out, more often than not for folks that have no legitimate excuse other than sheer laziness and selfishness.

As former Controller of a high end restaurant, I fielded 3 or 4 requests weekly to track down a credit card receipt for some dumb schmuck that had lost it before the expense report was written. The call was ALWAYS placed by an Administrative Assistant - never by the individual that had lost the receipt. Many times it was MONTHS after the fact.

[emmapeel]

As former Controller of a high end restaurant, I fielded 3 or 4 requests weekly to track down a credit card receipt for some dumb schmuck that had lost it before the expense report was written.  The call was ALWAYS placed by an Administrative Assistant - never by the individual that had lost the receipt.  Many times it was MONTHS after the fact.

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When I was an Admin Asst., this was a common occurrence, and I appreciate your disdain for this situation. It was just as ridiculous for us to call a restaurant and say "gee, it was on June 8th, lunch time, check for $211.34, under the name of F---Face..." and as you said Katie "months later." As the admin I could not understand why the diner knowing that it was to be expensed, always lost the receipts. It is the height of laziness and arrogance, for knowing that it would be handled by you and me...or else. I used to hope that the restaurant would one day say. "Sorry, you're out of luck". Never happened.

[KatieLoeb]

It is the height of laziness and arrogance, for knowing that it would be handled by you and me...or else. 

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Agreed. That's why I take the tone that I do regarding this. If I had a nickel for every Assistant that told me her boss was an irresponsible asshole I'd be rich.

I used to hope that the restaurant would one day say.  "Sorry, you're out of luck".  Never happened.

They obviously never ate at my restaurant. If it was over 90 days I'd explain that the receipts had been archived off premise and it wouldn't be possible for me to access it any longer without the actual check number that I could recreate off the POS system. All true and usually got them to leave me the hell alone.

[emmapeel]

All true and usually got them to leave me the hell alone.

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I can only say I wish I'd gotten you on the phone.

[irodguy]

The truth is that they do not need to "split the check" that is no separate bills are needed. They simply need to allow for separate credit cards.

In the case of Zorbas they will not allow you to split the bill onto separate cards regardless of how it's split. Most of the time we simply tell the servers to split the bill equally. Even the smallest restaurants are more than happy to have 10 or 15 people come for lunch and split the check onto separate cards. In some cases this takes a while, but especially with small non chain establishments this can make there day or sometimes even week.

In Zorbas case their food is great, but unless we have cash which most people don't. So instead of Zorbas getting our business Fadi's does.

[Kevin72]

Well, these are certainly good and understandable insights as to why they wouldn't do this practice. Next time I go I need to see how visibly they post this policy which I don't recall seeing before. But I did dodge a bullet in that I was going to recommend going here for our next office lunch outing which would have made for some frustration when it came time to pay up.

[irodguy]

To the best of my knowledge they do not post this fact at all. They simply tell you they cannot do it when it comes time to pay.

[irodguy]

Update:

It looks like Zorbas finely got the message. I went there for dinner late Friday night. They told us that their lunch business had fallen off imagine that.

So they have decided to allow you to pay with separate credit cards. They still will not "split" the bill, but will supply a portable calculator so their patrons can figure out how much to pay.

I told them that was okay, most of the time we will just split the bill evenly. It's just a matter of them allowing for separate credit cards, since they do this now we will be back for lunch in force.

[Kevin72]

Ha, we probably walked right by each other then! I went there too on Friday to "research" this separate checks issue for the good of eGullet, and sure enough there were no signs anywhere. We went with another couple and just did half and half on the credit cards.

My wife loudly declared how much she loved this place when we were there. Good times!

[irodguy]

Ha, we probably walked right by each other then!  I went there too on Friday to "research" this separate checks issue for the good of eGullet, and sure enough there were no signs anywhere.  We went with another couple and just did half and half on the credit cards. 

My wife loudly declared how much she loved this place when we were there.  Good times!

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Ah were you sitting in the old section by any chance pretty much right next to the desert counter? If so yes we were right next to you.

[Kevin72]

No, we got to give the new section a whirl this time. Actually, thinking back on that night we were kinda obnoxious (byob and all) so maybe it's for the best . . .

[irodguy]

We went for lunch today and they let us pay with seperate cards without issue. Now all I have to do is spread the word at the office. There are people who were so irritated by their previous policy that they have not been back in well over a year.