The Nitty Gritty

[jo-mel]

Everytime I read a description of 'grits/polenta' and all the side issues, I understand what I am reading, and then completely forget all the fine points.

What I do know is that when I make or order polenta, it is yellow. When I make/order grits, it is white. LOL!

[fifi]

In Charleston terms this definitely does not mean corn soaked in lye (who would want to do this unless they were really hungry?)

Well... This comment shows just about complete ignorance of traditional corn preparation in America since pre-Columbian times. And, if corn was the mainstay of your diet, that traditional preparation saved your life! Besides the posole that everyone knows about, the more pervasive masa used for making tortillas, tamales and other goodies is ground from treated corn.

[forever_young_ca]

I am glad that this topic has surfaced, as it is something I have wondered about.

As a Canadian, we do not eat grits. However, I have wondered - are they similar to "Cream of Wheat" cereal in taste, texture. Please do not laugh or throw stones, this is an honest, if ignorant, question. .

[Mudpuppie]

Mudpuppie... You misunderstand my question.

[...]

Is the corn used to produce classic polenta treated with lye and transformed into hominy before grinding?

I didn't misunderstand it, I was avoiding it because I didn't know the answer!

I looked it up, though, and here's what I've come up with. (I only back this answer 96%.) No, polenta is not treated with an alkali (e.g., lime). It's basically coarse corn meal and uses the whole kernel. Hominy is corn that's had it's hard outer shell removed by an alkaline solution. This is not the type of ground meal that's used, traditionally, in polenta.

Although, if you cooked yellow hominy grits and called them polenta, you wouldn't technically be wrong.

I'm trying my best to obfuscate, if you hadn't noticed, because I don't think there's any real right answer. We're back to the semantic thing again.

[Mudpuppie]

I am glad that this topic has surfaced, as it is something I have wondered about.

As a Canadian, we do not eat grits. However, I have wondered - are they similar to "Cream of Wheat" cereal in taste, texture. Please do not laugh or throw stones, this is an honest, if ignorant, question. .

It's hardly a stupid question. How could you know if you've never eaten them?

Grits can have a texture like cream of wheat if they're cooked loosely -- with lots of water, I mean, ending up with a soupy product. They can also be firm, like cooled polenta. (You Canadian eat that, right?)

All depends on how they're cooked -- how long, with how much liquid, etc. Also, with which liquid; they turn out creamier if they're cooked in milk.

If you're curious enough, there are lots of companies that do mail order grits. I don't want to post links because I don't want to endorse any. But being in grit-starved Canada doesn't mean you have to go without.

For what it's worth, I HATE cream of wheat, but love grits....

[Mudpuppie]

Sorry to post three in a row, but heads up -- get out your food dictionaries. We mostly use lime now, not lye. Big difference!

(I think I mentioned lye myself. I always get the two mixed up. Who decided to name them so similarly, anyway?)

[fifi]

I didn't misunderstand it, I was avoiding it because I didn't know the answer! 

I still don't know the answer.

To recap...

It is true that any coarsely ground grain falls under the generic term "grits".

Therefore, polenta is one type of "grits".

Polenta is not traditionally made from corn treated with alkali.

What is called "grits" in the south has traditionally been made from corn treated with alkali and are, therefore, "hominy grits".

What we don't know is whether or not our southern "grits" are still made from hominy. This is not clear because the alkali is not listed in the ingredients list (may not have to be since it is only part of the process and is theoretically not present in the final product) AND the product lists added nutrients (which, theoretically, would not be necessary if made from hominy).

To add to the confusion, there has been some speculation that our southern grits are always white. Not true. While they are usually from white corn, I have seen and bought yellow corn "grits".

All clear now? No?

(I think I will e-mail the Quaker folks.)

[fifi]

Yeah... You are right again. Actually the original process used either. The pre-columbians used either lime made from burning seashells or lye made from wood ashes. It depended upon what they had available. The key issue is that the corn was treated with a very high pH solution.

[Dave the Cook]

(I think I will e-mail the Quaker folks.)

Let's not overwhelm them with eGulls. I've already sent an inquiry.

[Comfort Me]

I was raised in the South, and grits are an important part of my culinary catalogue. I haven't tried the artisanal grits, but share an aversion with many for the "instant grits" -- which might be more accurately called "instant schmutz".

I am very particular about my grits, so three times a year I drive to Shipshewana, Indiana to a place called E & S Sales -- think Trader Joes for the Amish. I buy 15 or 20 pounds of stone ground, course grits for half the price per pound of the store brand instant stuff. They also have flaked hominy (eaten like a cereal -- haven't tried it yet, but I worked up the courage to buy some the last time out!).

THis store, btw, is paradise for me. 20 or so different flours -- in 50 & 100 lb. bags -- 10 different types of sugars, stone ground corn meal, etc. And the flour and corn products are mostly locally grown!

I'm getting off topic, but the grits are the best.

One way I love grits is with queso fresco and chopped chipotle peppers in adobo.

[Jensen]

I am glad that this topic has surfaced, as it is something I have wondered about.

As a Canadian, we do not eat grits. However, I have wondered - are they similar to "Cream of Wheat" cereal in taste, texture. Please do not laugh or throw stones, this is an honest, if ignorant, question. .

I'm Canadian too and I had no idea what grits were all about until a couple of years ago.

They look like Cream of Wheat but are a little thicker. I imagine if you cooked them with more liquid, they'd be a dead ringer.

They do not taste like Cream of Wheat; these have some flavour. I will confess that I've wondered if I would now like Cream of Wheat served with butter and salt and pepper though ...

[Jensen]

In Charleston terms this definitely does not mean corn soaked in lye (who would want to do this unless they were really hungry?)

Well... This comment shows just about complete ignorance of traditional corn preparation in America since pre-Columbian times.

In Thorne's article, he referenced this very same miller as having supplied him with grits that had been made in the traditional manner (using ashes from a barbecue pit!). I don't think the quote from the Anson Mills site reflects a lack of knowledge of the history of grits but rather it reflects an intimate knowledge of how they are produced *today*.

[Mayhaw Man]

We had cheese grits for lunch yesterday

This morning's breakfast was leftover cheese grits, sliced into managable chunks, and browned in butter. I enjoyed them plain, but the little Mayhaws seem to like them with Steen's Cane Syrup. (wrong I know, but they like it, so who's to say they are wrong?).

"Fried Grits" is how this is reffered to on menus and I highly reccomend them if you ever run across them.

Incidentally, my wife's surgery this week was done by Vicki Steen, heiress to the Steen Cane Syrup Empire (the empire part is a joke, ok? ). She did a great job and I am grateful to her.

[Mudpuppie]

    I still don't know the answer.

What was the question???

To recap...

Everything in your recap is spot on, in my opinion, except I think that white southern grits pretty much are always hominy grits. (Now, white polenta is another story....) As you've said, they don't necessarily have to list the alkaline solution as an ingredient, since it's more of a processing element.

And no, southern grits are not always white in the same way that polenta is not always yellow. I'd offer, though, that yellow southern grits are a statistical anomaly and should therefore be stricken from the record!

[Comfort Me]

Incidentally, my wife's surgery this week was done by Vicki Steen, heiress to the Steen Cane Syrup Empire (the empire part is a joke, ok? ). She did a great job and I am grateful to her.

I know I'm not alone in sending warm wishes for a speedy recovery to Mrs. Mayhaw.

Do you guys need anything? Are you set for the holidays?

Instead of a cookie swap, I'm sure many eGulls would be happy to send you a dozen cookies!

Edited December 15, 2003 by Comfort Me (log)

[Mudpuppie]

I am in that oh-so-cosmopolitan centre -- Sacramento <cough, cough>.

I feel your pain. I am too.

Next time you venture toward the bridge, try G.B. Ratto's in downtown Oakland, or the Housewives Market around the corner from there. They both have them.

[Mayhaw Man]

Incidentally, my wife's surgery this week was done by Vicki Steen, heiress to the Steen Cane Syrup Empire (the empire part is a joke, ok? ). She did a great job and I am grateful to her.

I know I'm not alone in sending warm wishes for a speedy recovery to Mrs. Mayhaw.

Do you guys need anything? Are you set for the holidays?

Instead of a cookie swap, I'm sure many eGulls would be happy to send you a dozen cookies!

Thank you, but no. She's doing nicely (straight from the morphine, push button drip to the percodans woo hoo!) and is up and around, at least well enough to take complete charge of my otherwise bucolic lifestyle, and at home everyday through the holidays.

And oddly enough, on the cookie front, I made a big pile of Cowboy Cookies last night and as soon as I am through typing this I am going to get started on massive amounts of pralines and a little divinity (the humidity is only 50%, so I've got a pretty good shot at success. )

Regards

[Jensen]

I am in that oh-so-cosmopolitan centre -- Sacramento <cough, cough>.

I feel your pain. I am too.

Well, it's a small comfort to know that someone commiserates with me. You can imagine my shock upon moving here from Vancouver (BC) four years ago. I thought that because Vancouver and Sacramento are roughly the same size (with Sacto being slightly bigger), they would be similar, culturally-speaking.

(Talk about a "rude awakening"!)

Next time you venture toward the bridge, try G.B. Ratto's in downtown Oakland, or the Housewives Market around the corner from there. They both have them.

Thanks for the tips. I will try that.

I did make some Albers this morning for my breakfast. I oversalted them but, otherwise, it was a wonderful way to start the day.

Now, I'm looking forward to trying "fried grits" and "cheese grits".

[hwilson41]

Could one of the more informed participants please recap for me? I haven't the faintest damned idea if we've settled anything or not .

For what it's worth (possibly very little) my experience is this. I grew up in Texas, and we ate hominy AND we ate grits (yes, I already know about the nomenclature debate from the Charlestonians). Both were white...invariably. And I never in my life saw a corn kernel that was as large as the hominy kernels we ate regularly. For that matter, I've never even seen yellow grits. I was told by old heads that hominy was produced by soaking corn kernels in lye. The end results were

(1) the hulls were removed;

(2) the kernels swelled up to about five times their earlier size;

(3) the lye bleached them to white even if they had started out yellow.

Is this wrong? Why do I feel like I'm stumbling around in the dark looking for a light switch ?

THW

[hwilson41]

And just for a minor PS, why does the time stamp on my last post show up as 7:38 when it's only 6:40 Eastern time ?

[Mudpuppie]

(1) the hulls were removed;

(2) the kernels swelled up to about five times their earlier size;

(3) the lye bleached them to white even if they had started out yellow.

Is this wrong? Why do I feel like I'm stumbling around in the dark looking for a light switch ?

THW

Not wrong. Right.

Except, I have seen yellow hominy. Don't ask me where.

And just for a minor PS, why does the time stamp on my last post show up as 7:38 when it's only 6:40 Eastern time ?

Ha! You've fallen into the grit vortex!

[hwilson41]

Except, I have seen yellow hominy. Don't ask me where.

Ha! You've fallen into the grit vortex!

OK, I won't ask...but you already knew I was lying, didn't you ? Any chance that yellow hominy didn't get the lye (or alkaline) treatment? That might explain it. And following that notion, were the kernels oversized like the old fashioned hominy I knew?

If you've got to be in a vortex, surely the grits one is the place to be . Thanks for the reply.

THW

Edited so I don't appear quite so dumb. Read first, write later .

Edited December 16, 2003 by hwilson41 (log)

[Mayhaw Man]

I will not defend the following statement as in my world it is always true (and I live in MY world, not some world filled with oddly colored grits):

Grits are white.

Hominy is white.

The bleached corn product universe is colorless

[fifi]

Sorry guys... I regularly buy canned yellow HOMINY for use in my variation on Texas Caviar. And it is hominy. Big swole up kernels.

And, some years ago, I have bought yellow grits. I don't think I have seen them lately, though.

(And I thought the universe was teal blue. )

[Mudpuppie]

OK, I won't ask...but you already knew I was lying, didn't you ? 

I didn't mean it to sound dirty. I just couldn't remember. Now it's coming back to me -- I think I remember both white and yellow being sold in Fiesta markets in Texas. I know I've bought a can of yellow hominy at least once in my life, and I don't remember it being all that different from the white stuff, taste-wise. But it was yellow(-ish).

Any chance that yellow hominy didn't get the lye (or alkaline) treatment? That might explain it. And following that notion, were the kernels oversized like the old fashioned hominy I knew?

No. Sorry. Yellow hominy may be less yellow than yellow corn, but it's not white.

Google rules! Here's some background info on hominy and how it's made: http://www.glifwc.org/pub/summer01/hominy.htm