Rick Bayless

[guajolote]

There has recently been a heated discussion here about Rick Bayless doing commericals for a new sandwich at Burger King. I've noticed that you've mentioned him a lot. What are your thoughts about this?

[Andrew&Karen]

We had just read that, perhaps in a posting on the Chefs and Cooks on the Internet discussion list (cooks@foodcircle.org, we think) -- but haven't researched the facts of it at all, so we can't comment on that specifically.

However, we do think it's great when restaurant chains do things worth lauding -- anything to help improve the quality of food available in this country (or anywhere else) at all price points.

For example, a Chipotle Grill, which we've read is partially-owned by McDonald's, just opened in our neighborhood in Manhattan (44th St. & Lexington Ave.). They are a burrito and taco chain that serves Niman Ranch pork and Bell & Evans chicken -- at a $6.50 price point. We think that's great!

Karen & Andrew

[Andrew&Karen]

P.S. The discussion got us both curious to try the Santa Fe Grilled Chicken Sandwich at Burger King, which Rick Bayless is endorsing.

The sandwiches we were served at our local Burger King (on 47th Street, between Third and Lexington Aves. in Manhattan) this afternoon looked nothing like the sandwich pictured in a recent issue of ADWEEK, which depicts the chicken breast as topped with lots of vegetables.

Instead, ours was topped with lots of strikingly vinegary and salty red sauce -- and a few onions and peppers.

For $5.49, the value combo included a sandwich, a salad with Caesar-style dressing, and a bottle of water.

The sandwich was not overly large, which was refreshing given the oversized sandwiches we've come to be used to in NYC/America.

The bread had great texture -- soft on the inside and crusty on the outside. On the other hand, it had absolutely zero flavor.

The chicken breast itself was surprisingly moist -- so much so that it did not appear to be grilled at all (which is emphasized in the sandwich's advertising), but rather grill-marked and poached (or, more likely, microwaved!).

The tomato sauce with onions and peppers definitely struck us both as more Italian than Southwest.

Was it delicious? No. Would we order it again? If we were traveling on an expressway and Burger King were our only option for sustenance, maybe -- but probably not. (We'd like to think we'd both hold out for something with some real character and flavor!)

Given the bottles of Rick Bayless's wonderful salsas that are a constant in our refrigerator, we both imagined how infinitely better the sandwich would have tasted if they got rid of the Italian red sauce and topped it with Bayless's salsa instead!

Now THAT would be a development to get excited about! Burger King executives, are you listening?!?

Karen & Andrew

http://www.newamericanchef.com

[ExtraMSG]

I've been to both Topolobampo and Frontera Grill. I like the menus, but question the execution. I don't want to get into whether the flavors are good, great, mediocre, or whatever. Rather, reading your excerpt I can't help but think that Bayless actually doesn't always respect the Mexican tradition. eg, I had his pozole verde at Frontera on a trip there. The pozole itself was fantastic, easily the best of the dishes at the table. It had some braised chunks of pork throughout that were good, too. But then he plops down some slices of pork tenderloin that just seemed totally out of place. Several of the other dishes at Frontera and Topolo suffered from the same problem. My guess is that it's an effort to "prove" that the dishes deserve the prices they charge and to show that it's upscale, not just "Mexican", whatever that would mean. Seems like a folly by an experienced restauranteur similar to the ones that you describe by novices in your excerpt -- an unfortunate casing of pushing the bounds of the tradition for the wrong reasons. (Just as an aside, I prefer Cafe Azul here in Portland partly because I think Archibald truly respects the tradition she's trying to work in and thus succeeds with the dishes consistently.)

[Andrew&Karen]

Hi ExtraMSG,

You're right -- some of America's leading chefs don't always respect the "Tradition" of the cuisines that serve as their reference points in cooking.

But "Traditional" (what we refer to as the North point on the Culinary Compass we describe in our excerpt from THE NEW AMERICAN CHEF which appears elsewhere on eGullet.com) doesn't always equal "delicious."

If you go to many Thai restaurants in Thailand, you'll get overcooked food -- because that's what's "traditional." But at Vong, Jean-Georges Vongerichten treats his ingredients with great care and cooks them with a different sensibility in mind.

Likewise, Rick Bayless has told us that Mexican natives will eat at Frontera Grill or Topolobampo and tell him that a particular mole is never served in Mexico with anything but a particular meat -- yet Bayless will argue that, while not "traditional," the mole is a delicious accompaniment to other meats, such as in the combination featured on his menu!

You might especially enjoy reading the excerpt from THE NEW AMERICAN CHEF on eGullet.com for more on this topic.

Best wishes,

Karen & Andrew

[ExtraMSG]

I did read it and I plan on buying the book. Looks like another good one. I don't think you guys have put out a dud yet. I own three of your books currently.

My issue is more with chefs feeling they have to "dress up" traditional recipes even when this "dressing up" hurts the dish. Stewed pork shoulder may not justify a $15 price tag even if it's prepared wonderfully so some pork tenderloin is tossed on top even if it detracts from the dish. Maybe that's what the market, unfortunately, requires.

Here in Portland the trend is away from this, I think. We don't have haute cuisine here really anymore, but even without it the trend is towards a simplifying of dishes, I think. See this okay article on the subject, if you wish:

Next Wave of Chefs in Portland

Also, this egullet topic:

Egullet on Next Wave in Portland

I'm for good food whether it's traditional or not. Maybe my real problem is with customers who force bad choices by chefs. In that case, I hope more people educate themselves by reading books like your own and adventurously eating out. (btw, the comment in the excerpt about culinary school students not having eaten enough good food was very on target. I was just arguing this to a friend the other day after I watched the entire season of the Food Network's Cooking School Stories. I am a better chef in many ways -- as an amateur -- than them after a couple years of culinary school if only because I've eaten at many top restaurants and know what it means to make a great dish.)

[Andrew&Karen]

We hear your point, and agree that it's worth being curious and sometimes even concerned about the forces that drive chefs to do what they do.

And we share your concerns about cooks who are aiming to cook at a level that they themselves have never experienced.

When researching CHEF'S NIGHT OUT, we became convinced that dining out is a vital aspect of any chef's culinary education. The opening paragraphs of CHEF'S NIGHT OUT read:

"What does it take to become a great chef in America today? Certainly education -- either as an apprentice or, more than ever before, in professional cooking schools -- and experience in the kitchen are important. A profound understanding of ingredients, and the flavors and techniques that will best enhance their taste, is vital -- along with a commitment to excellence at every step of the way.

"But leading professional chefs across America agree that the most important aspect of a professional chef's development is eating out. What most of the general public do for sustenance, and many restaurant lovers do for entertainment, is the lifeblood of an ambitious chef's professional development.

"'I am a huge advocate of chefs learning to cook by eating in good restaurants,' says Rick Bayless of Frontera Grill and Topolobampo (Chicago). 'I recommend that constantly. The first thing that anyone who's serious about becoming a chef should do is save up every penny they've got and eat at the best restaurants in the country. And not just once -- they need to go regularly.'

"Bob Kinkead, chef-owner of Kinkead's (Washington, DC), agrees. 'I have always been of the opinion that I learn a lot more by dining in restaurants than by working in them,' says Kinkead. 'That's how I saw the big picture of what a restaurateur aims to achieve....'"

We'll look forward to checking out your links. [Oh, and FYI, there's an entire chapter of THE NEW AMERICAN CHEF up on Amazon.com as of today, we think.]

Best wishes,

Karen & Andrew