The Mint Julep

[slkinsey]

Yea. Rittenhouse bonded makes an awesome julep.

[Splificator]

But I love that bourbon/sugar/herb interplay. So bourbon it is for me. And peppermint too. You don't need very much, but it is a thing of beauty. I wonder how pennyroyal would go...

And rye. Anyone favour rye in their julep?

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Don't get me wrong--I fully agree that a bourbon Julep can be a heavenly drink, as can a rye one; in fact, when I make Juleps at home, I usually drink rye or bourbon ones, and not only because I don't want to use up all the XO (VS-grade cognac doesn't always make for a satisfying Julep, I find). When I'm feeling really sporty, I'll break out the Booker's or the Thomas Handy.

And George: As far as I can tell, the heyday of the fancy, fruit-flavored Julep came before the Civil War; the quotes you've extracted from Google books cover the field pretty well: lemon (or occasionally lime was the chief culprit), and was shaken up with the ice, mint, sugar and booze, pineapple was rubbed around the edge and strawberries and such were reserved for garnish. From what I've seen, those were the generally-accepted practices (see, in particular, Marryatt and Maynbe Reid, above). Of course, America was (and is) a big place, with a lot of inventive bartenders and thirsty customers, so individual practice was bound to vary.

Oh, and yes: eediot. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Much.

[slkinsey]

Dave and George: Would this have been slices of lemon/lime fruit, or peel?

[Splificator]

Both were common. When, as the story goes, the Prince of Wales had one of Jerry Thomas' Juleps, he thought it resembled a lemonade.

[bostonapothecary]

Both were common. When, as the story goes, the Prince of Wales had one of Jerry Thomas' Juleps, he thought it resembled a lemonade.

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so the southside was just a common mint julep with the name of a place attached to it?

[Splificator]

so the southside was just a common mint julep with the name of a place attached to it?

Huh. Good question. I think by the time the Southside came along things like gin Juleps with lemon were a thing of the past, due to the process fatdeko was talking about. That, and the different format--tumbler drink with ice versus straight-up cocktail--would lead me to doubt an actual historical connection.

And, BTW, a country Julep in a canning jar with mint, sugar and shine doesn't sound too bad to me at all.

[thirtyoneknots]

I've been reading all this with much interest but not much to contribute except this one question: When you start adding things like juices and pineapple slices and strawberries and so forth to a julep, what then distinguishes it from a cobbler?

-Andy

[Splificator]

I've been reading all this with much interest but not much to contribute except this one question: When you start adding things like juices and pineapple slices and strawberries and so forth to a julep, what then distinguishes it from a cobbler?

-Andy

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Not a hell of a lot, as far as I can tell; the two classes form a Venn diagram. Here, though, are some tendencies I've noticed:

Cobblers never contain mint; Juleps usually do

Cobblers rarely if ever contain spirits (Jerry Thomas' Whiskey Cobbler is an aberration, even--I suspect--an abomination). Juleps usually do.

Cobblers must contain citrus peel or, more commonly, fruit; Juleps can contain it, but often don't.

So yes, you could have a drink with lemon, madeira, sugar and ice and call that a Cobbler or a Julep. But a drink with brandy, rum, sugar, mint and ice would be a Julep, and never a Cobbler.

[ThinkingBartender]

Cobblers never contain mint; Juleps usually do

Cobblers rarely if ever contain spirits (Jerry Thomas' Whiskey Cobbler is an aberration, even--I suspect--an abomination). Juleps usually do.

Cobblers must contain citrus peel or, more commonly, fruit; Juleps can contain it, but often don't.

So yes, you could have a drink with lemon, madeira, sugar and ice and call that a Cobbler or a Julep. But a drink with brandy, rum, sugar, mint and ice would be a Julep, and never a Cobbler.

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Would a Peach Julep, or Strawberry Julep, have contained Mint? Either way I am sure they would taste great; But would an aficionado of the period have expected Mint and Julep to be synonymous?

Also, would the Julep or Cobbler ever contain a corresponding liqueur to the fruit used in them?

Cheers!

George

Edited April 12, 2007 by ThinkingBartender (log)

[Splificator]

Would a Peach Julep, or Strawberry Julep, have contained Mint? Either way I am sure they would taste great; But would an aficionado of the period have expected Mint and Julep to be synonymous?

This I do not know. I haven't got enough information--recipes, descriptions--on those to tell. Most references are to Mint Julep.

Also, would the Julep or Cobbler ever contain a corresponding liqueur to the fruit used in them?

I've never noticed such a thing, but then again I haven't been looking for it, either. Peach brandy does turn up in a lot of early drinks, though. When well aged, it was highly prized (we're talking about an aged eau-de-vie here, made with fruit and pits, not the sweetened liqueur we know now).

[bostonapothecary]

Peach brandy does turn up in a lot of early drinks, though. When well aged, it was highly prized (we're talking about an aged eau-de-vie here, made with fruit and pits, not the sweetened liqueur we know now).

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virginia dram? does anyone still make that stuff?

you'd think the mainstream would love it....i can't believe applejack doesn't have mainstream success....

my family makes the fermented stuff like peach wine....

[fatdeko]

I've been reading all this with much interest but not much to contribute except this one question: When you start adding things like juices and pineapple slices and strawberries and so forth to a julep, what then distinguishes it from a cobbler?

-Andy

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Might I just add, in a literally reductive way, that when you "remove" items like juices, pineapple slices and strawberries and so forth from a cobbler, have you "got" a julep?

I think not.

If you were to serve a Julep to a Cobbler drinker, you're likely to have an issue.

If you were to serve a Cobbler to a Julep drinker, you might find yourself in the same predicament.

Cast away your post-modernity: sometimes things ARE as they appear.

When asked by reporters why she called a particularly long-necked goat a "giraffe", Eve said, "Because it looks like one".

"It is what it is" may be deeper than we give it credit. Maybe a Cobbler is a Cobbler and a Julep is a Julep.

myers

[thirtyoneknots]

"It is what it is" may be deeper than we give it credit. Maybe a Cobbler is a Cobbler and a Julep is a Julep.

myers

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I'm not arguing that point, just trying to use the comparison as a way to further my understanding of what a cobbler is (and what a julep is, for that matter). I did not mean to suggest they are the same thing, just that they have a few similarities.

-Andy

[thirtyoneknots]

Also, would the Julep or Cobbler ever contain a corresponding liqueur to the fruit used in them?

I've never noticed such a thing, but then again I haven't been looking for it, either. Peach brandy does turn up in a lot of early drinks, though. When well aged, it was highly prized (we're talking about an aged eau-de-vie here, made with fruit and pits, not the sweetened liqueur we know now).

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This is the second time I've seen this product mentioned in your posts and have always been fascinated by this concept; it sounds delicious. Whatever happened to it?

-Andy

[ThinkingBartender]

I'm not arguing that point, just trying to use the comparison as a way to further my understanding of what a cobbler is (and what a julep is, for that matter). I did not mean to suggest they are the same thing, just that they have a few similarities.

-Andy

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What the Cobbler is, is less interesting than what it was, and what it could be. Same goes for the Julep. People seem to what one clean-cut answer everytime they ask a question, but that is not always possible.

What can a Julep be? What has it been?

What can a Cobbler be? What has it been?

The Cobbler is often referred to as a dead category of drinks, but I see no reason why this should be so. True, the "spirit, sugar, crushed ice" description that you find on the internet is pretty mundane, but a little look into the past shows that it was more than that; And it is this historical set of recipes that can, and should, be revived.

Is the Absinthe Frappe a Cobbler? Is Frappe the same as Cobbler? Frappe means "to strike" in French, doesn't Cobbler mean basically the same thing?

The Julep is thought of in such a way as there is little room for expansion, or referring to it's past. If you were to shake a Julep in London, England, I think bartenders would be surprised, even though it is a valid historical method of preparation.

Splificator: You say that the non-bourbon Julep died off around the American Civil War, but do you really mean 1862, as in the publication of Jerry Thomas' book? Was the influence of Jerry Thomas' book so great that other older recipes were seen as less valid, and therefore were discarded?

Cheers!

George

[Splificator]

Splificator: You say that the non-bourbon Julep died off around the American Civil War, but do you really mean 1862, as in the publication of Jerry Thomas' book? Was the influence of Jerry Thomas' book so great that other older recipes were seen as less valid, and therefore were discarded?

Well, actually, Thomas' lead Julep is in fact a brandy Julep. I think it had more to do with blockades during the Civil War interdicting the Southern brandy supply, the ever-improving quality of American whiskey, increased American self-confidence and then Phylloxera.

And again, the essence of the Cobbler was gentility; it was always perceived as a gentlemanly (and also female-friendly) summer refresher. An Absinthe Frappe was a hot-rails-to-hell distillation of the sporting life, a glassful of pure decadence.

With these things, as with all drinks, you have to look at the culture as much as you look at the mixology.

Oh, and peach brandy? Interestingly enough, in the late 1930s and early 1940s, Lem Mottlow used to distill the stuff and market it under the Jack Daniel's label, along with an apple brandy as well. This, as far as I know, was peach brandy's last gasp as a commercial product. Then the costs got too high and he was forced to concentrate on his whiskey.

A Georgia gentleman of my recent acquaintance told me that his father still makes some, as do various and sundry other individuals in the state. None for commerce, though, not as far as I know. Pity. Is Matthew Rowley still around here? He'd know more about the non-commercial aspects of this, as he's just published an excellent book on home distilling.

[slkinsey]

Re Peach Brandy: One hopes that, with the rise of small-batch artisinal distilleries, someone will take it upon themselves to revive this liquor.

[ThinkingBartender]

Splificator: how did the Prince of Wales end up saying that Jerry Thomas' Julep tasted like lemonade? I don't see any lemon listed in the recipe.

By non-bourbon, I meant the wine-based juleps.

Cheers!

George

[Splificator]

Splificator: how did the Prince of Wales end up saying that Jerry Thomas' Julep tasted like lemonade? I don't see any lemon listed in the recipe.

The Prince didn't make it himself, from a recipe. The Professor made it for him. And if the Professor was anything like the other drink-writers I know, he didn't just have one way to make things, no matter what his book said.

By non-bourbon, I meant the wine-based juleps.

Well, Thomas had a Champagne Julep in his book, but I think by that time it was an anachronism. If you look at Julep recipes in the 1840s and 1850s, they tend to be pretty stiff. Also, the Wenham Lake Ice company, which tried to export ice to England, provided codified recipes for the Julep and the Cobbler that got a wide play--they turn up, anyway, in numerous recipe books, so they might have had someting to do with standardizing things. But really, who the hell can say? 150 years down the road, it's very difficult to catch the minutiae.

[ThinkingBartender]

The Prince didn't make it himself, from a recipe. The Professor made it for him. And if the Professor was anything like the other drink-writers I know, he didn't just have one way to make things, no matter what his book said.

I meant the Prince tasted, but the Professor made it.

I have a feeling that if the Professor was making a Julep for British Royalty then he would have made the best Mint Julep he knew how; So I guess that a lemony mint julep was his recipe par excellence, and also a recipe he kept secret too.

I just don't get how a recipe containing mint ended up tasting like lemonade. Brandy Mojito?

[fatdeko]

That Wenham Lake thing was a complete debacle. Sorta. For the most part. Except where it was hugely successful.

You had reactions ranging from "Venom Lake" to the pervasive notion that the US had a lake so big, that all the food grade ice in the world came from it. Some even thought that Wenham Lake ice didn't even melt.

myers

[Splificator]

That Wenham Lake thing was a complete debacle. Sorta. For the most part. Except where it was hugely successful.

You had reactions ranging from "Venom Lake" to the pervasive notion that the US had a lake so big, that all the food grade ice in the world came from it. Some even thought that Wenham Lake ice didn't even melt.

myers

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Yeah, the Brits who tasted the iced drinks at the big launch event thought the drinks were too cold and kept asking for hot water to put in 'em.

Many pubs in Britain STILL don't have ice, not to speak of--they keep it in a little insulated bucket on top of the bar.

[ThinkingBartender]

Many pubs in Britain STILL don't have ice, not to speak of--they keep it in a little insulated bucket on top of the bar.

Watery ice cubes. And if you put "too much" ice into their drinks, then they are likely to claw out the ice, with their unwashed hands, and plonk it into the ash-tray. Nice.

Edited April 15, 2007 by ThinkingBartender (log)

[bostonapothecary]

i had so many lame people at the bar in town for the boston marathon....

rampant bad taste, i ran out of apple pucker.... i thought of this thread and had them all drinking champagne juleps.... it was incredible how well it went over. what a crowd pleaser.

i'm scouring the city for 12oz canning jars..... i'm gonna start making some real country drinks for the patio.....

cheers!

[fatdeko]

David:

Are there "artifacts" of the Wenham Lake recipes that you allude to?

If so, do they fall into the category of "ephemera" like the free booklets and "necker"s we've come to know (and love) Stateside, or are they buried in contemporary 'cookery books' etc?

myers