Cobblers

[gknl]

So why is my Central Texas cobbler a Clafoutis???

It's not, clafoutis use eggs and the batter is poured over the fruit so it's almost custard like.

ediot:

Edited July 28, 2003 by gknl (log)

[JSD]

I've been told from a reliable source that Texas isn't really part of the South anyway.     

It's risky to generalize about Texas since it's so large and varied. It's like the blind men and the elephant. Part of Texas is definitely in the South. The dividing line runs somewhere between Houston and Beaumont. I lived in that part of Texas and it's very Southern in character. This area includes Jasper.

The thingie is a "wink" meaning "it's a joke."

But, since you brought it up, if people are going to argue about what "real cobbler" is topped with, why not argue about what's "really the South" too?

After all, one person's cobbler is another person's pieclafoutipandowdybucklegruntslurpcrispcrunch etc.

Just wait a month when we start talking about football.

Well, I wasn't arguing about what's "real" cobbler, anyway, only what's really the South. I'm not from the South, I only lived there. I don't have a strong opinion about cobbler, other than I like to eat it.

Is football only a month away? Oh joy.

[browniebaker]

Oh...my fave peach cobbler recipe comes from a Texas Hill Country (Pedernales) community cookbook.  And it isn't pie dough or biscuit dough.  It's a milky (no egg) batter that is poured into a pyrex dish in which you have melted butter hot (kinda like Yorkshire Pudding).  It is topped with peach slices.  The batter puffs up and the peaches end up on the bottom.  So, it is gooey inside and crisp on top.  Best of both worlds, IMO...but is it a cobbler?

No, its a Clafoutis. But maybe the original audience wold not be familiar with the french term, so called it by their closest equivalent.

You can make them with cherries, apples or almost any fruit. Eggy batter works even better.

I believe cobbler was originally biscuit dough in lumps on the top to resemble a cobbled street, but by extension means any fruit (or indeed savoury) pie where the topping is not in a continuous sheet.

Good saoury cobblers are with the filling topped wih lumps of dumpling dough

OMG! All of these years I have been making that recipe and now I find out I have been making a Clafoutis? I find that deeply disturbing.

Not to worry. It's NOT a clafoutis, which requires egg in the batter.

[jackal10]

Not to worry. It's NOT a clafoutis, which requires egg in the batter.

What is your authority for that?

The original Limousin dish may have been cherries in a flan custard (with or without a pastry base), but modern usage (e.g. Larousse 1984) defines it as "[fruit] arranged in a buttered dish and covered with a fairly thick pancake batter". No mention of eggs, and I submit fairly close to

It's a milky (no egg) batter that is poured into a pyrex dish in which you have melted butter hot (kinda like Yorkshire Pudding).  It is topped with peach slices

Larousse goes on to say

" The Academie Francaise, who had defined clafoutis as a "sort of fruit flan" were faced with protests from the inhabitants of Limoges and changed their definition to "cake with black cherries". Never the less there are numerous variations using cherries or other fruits. The word comes from the provincial dialect word clafir (to fill)"

Yorkshire puddings always have egg in the batter - that is what gives the rise. Maybe the pudding described would be even better with an eggy batter...

Edited July 28, 2003 by jackal10 (log)

[browniebaker]

Not to worry. It's NOT a clafoutis, which requires egg in the batter.

What is your authority for that?

The original Limousin dish may have been cherries in a flan custard (with or without a pastry base), but modern usage (e.g. Larousse 1984) defines it as "[fruit] arranged in a buttered dish and covered with a fairly thick pancake batter". No mention of eggs, and I submit fairly close to

It's a milky (no egg) batter that is poured into a pyrex dish in which you have melted butter hot (kinda like Yorkshire Pudding).  It is topped with peach slices

Larousse goes on to say

" The Academie Francaise, who had defined clafoutis as a "sort of fruit flan" were faced with protests from the inhabitants of Limoges and changed their definition to "cake with black cherries". Never the less there are numerous variations using cherries or other fruits. The word comes from the provincial dialect word clafir (to fill)"

Yorkshire puddings always have egg in the batter - that is what gives the rise. Maybe the pudding described would be even better with an eggy batter...

My authority? Just my knowledge (that I acquired from living in France and that I have had so long, I don't know when or how I first acquired it) that the dish that the French call clafoutis is made with an egg-based batter. Even the definition that you cite defines clafoutis as a "flan"-like dish made with "pancake batter." Flans and pancakes are both typically made with eggs.

The point is, not everything with a batter poured over it is a clafoutis.

[jackal10]

Eggs are good, and should be used, However

I think the current definition of Clafoutis extends from the baked custardy sort to the ones with a crisper batter, more like a fruit version of toad-in-the-hole, with fruit instead of sausages.

[browniebaker]

Eggs are good, and should be used, However

I think the current definition of Clafoutis extends from the baked custardy sort to the ones with a crisper batter, more like a fruit version of toad-in-the-hole, with fruit instead of sausages.

Like clafoutis, toad-in-the-hole is made with an eggy batter, essentially the same batter as used for Yorkshire pudding. If you ask on what authority I base this assertion, I'll have to admit I lived in Oxford, England, for a while, am a great lover of English foods, and sometimes cook toad-in-the-hole as comfort food.

[gknl]

Not to worry. It's NOT a clafoutis, which requires egg in the batter.

What is your authority for that?

The original Limousin dish may have been cherries in a flan custard (with or without a pastry base), but modern usage (e.g. Larousse 1984) defines it as "[fruit] arranged in a buttered dish and covered with a fairly thick pancake batter". No mention of eggs, and I submit fairly close to

It's a milky (no egg) batter that is poured into a pyrex dish in which you have melted butter hot (kinda like Yorkshire Pudding).  It is topped with peach slices

Larousse goes on to say

" The Academie Francaise, who had defined clafoutis as a "sort of fruit flan" were faced with protests from the inhabitants of Limoges and changed their definition to "cake with black cherries". Never the less there are numerous variations using cherries or other fruits. The word comes from the provincial dialect word clafir (to fill)"

Yorkshire puddings always have egg in the batter - that is what gives the rise. Maybe the pudding described would be even better with an eggy batter...

Do you have a pancake recipe that doesn't call for eggs?

And anyway, in the clafoutis, the batter is poured over the fruit, in the Central Texas Cobbler, the fruit is placed over the batter. So it's the complete opposite. hehehe

[jackal10]

Do you have a pancake recipe that doesn't call for eggs?

And anyway, in the clafoutis, the batter is poured over the fruit, in the Central Texas Cobbler, the fruit is placed over the batter.  So it's the complete opposite.  hehehe

But the fruit sinks...

There are many pancake and batter recipes that do not need eggs:

Very low fat pancakes

or indian jalebi (sweet pancake spirals)

or tempura batter (flour + fizzy water)

or yeast-raised pancakes

or chinese pancakes and wrappers

or tortillas...

[browniebaker]

Do you have a pancake recipe that doesn't call for eggs?

And anyway, in the clafoutis, the batter is poured over the fruit, in the Central Texas Cobbler, the fruit is placed over the batter.  So it's the complete opposite.  hehehe

But the fruit sinks...

There are many pancake and batter recipes that do not need eggs:

Very low fat pancakes

or indian jalebi (sweet pancake spirals)

or tempura batter (flour + fizzy water)

or yeast-raised pancakes

or chinese pancakes and wrappers

or tortillas...

These so-called pancakes without eggs -- now you're really reaching!

I doubt that the Larousse definition of "clafoutis" that you originally cited uses the term "pancake" in a sense that includes all these eggless batters and wrappers that you now cite.

Why not stop trying so hard to limit the definition of cobbler? Let's not begrudge people of various regions in the U.S. the privilege (perhaps the right?) of calling their concoctions "cobblers." Face it: there ARE regional variations of the American cobbler. Could we, in an expansive spirit, show some tolerance for, even celebrate, our regional differences?

[gknl]

Do you have a pancake recipe that doesn't call for eggs?

And anyway, in the clafoutis, the batter is poured over the fruit, in the Central Texas Cobbler, the fruit is placed over the batter.  So it's the complete opposite.  hehehe

But the fruit sinks...

There are many pancake and batter recipes that do not need eggs:

Very low fat pancakes

or indian jalebi (sweet pancake spirals)

or tempura batter (flour + fizzy water)

or yeast-raised pancakes

or chinese pancakes and wrappers

or tortillas...

These so-called pancakes without eggs -- now you're really reaching!

I doubt that the Larousse definition of "clafoutis" that you originally cited uses the term "pancake" in a sense that includes all these eggless batters and wrappers that you now cite.

Why not stop trying so hard to limit the definition of cobbler? Let's not begrudge people of various regions in the U.S. the privilege (perhaps the right?) of calling their concoctions "cobblers." Face it: there ARE regional variations of the American cobbler. Could we, in an expansive spirit, show some tolerance for, even celebrate, our regional differences?

Is it proper use of the word "irony" to note that an expanded definition of "pancake" is being used to restrict the definition of "cobbler?"

[Suvir Saran]

indian jalebi (sweet pancake spirals)

Pancake???? Jalebis? Very interesting.

[gknl]

Interesting article in today's paper. I'm glad someone was paying attention. Nice work!

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/living/...ood/6574823.htm

Posted on Wed, Aug. 20, 2003

Fruit cobblers a cakewalk to prepare

By Kathleen Purvis

KNIGHT RIDDER NEWSPAPERS

Posted on Wed, Aug. 20, 2003

Fruit cobblers a cakewalk to prepare

By Kathleen Purvis

KNIGHT RIDDER NEWSPAPERS

Take fruit, usually peaches, cook it in a syrup, cover it with a top crust and bake it. That's a cobbler.

Or you can take fruit, usually peaches or blackberries, toss it with a little flour, sugar and butter, top it with soft biscuits, and bake it. That's a cobbler, too.

Or you can cover any fruit, from peaches to blackberries to cherries, rhubarb or apples, with a thin batter and bake until the topping is puffy. Yep, that's a cobbler, too.

Sometimes the fruit is put on the batter, which rises to cover it. Sometimes the batter is put on the fruit and flows down to enrobe it. Sometimes there's a bottom crust. Sometimes there's a biscuit dough covering the whole thing.

So just what in the heck is a cobbler?

[material omitted]

And as far as defining a cobbler, what's a food writer to do?

Only this: Admit that a cobbler is whatever you think it is, which is probably whatever your mother or your grandmother told you it was. And when summer fruit is at its height, when every corner of every country highway has a stand filled with peaches and blackberries, a cobbler is a mighty fine thing to consider.

[IrishCream]

Wow! I am amazed by how closely that article parallels this thread! I can't help but think the author read this thread. Could Kathleen Purvis be eGullet's kpurvis????

[Varmint]

First, that Kathleen Purvis is indeed our kpurvis, Food Editor of the Charlotte Observer. I can't speak for Kathi, but I do know that she meticulously researches her articles, so this could have been something in the works for some time. Moreover, cobbler articles are standard fodder for summer food writing.

Could she have gained some information from this thread? She's a smart lady, so she probably did!!!