Lillet

[slkinsey]

And I've always pronounced it "li-lay" -- short i, with the accent on the last syllable. Now I'm wondering --isn't that right?

AFAIK, there is no {I} (as in "is") vowel in French, only the {i} (as in "see") vowel.

Strictly speaking, I would pronounce "Lillet" as: lee-LEH (in the International Phonetic Alphabet: [li-'lE]). If I were saying "Lillet" while speaking French, I'd hit the "Ls" very lightly with the tip of the tongue. When saying "Lillet" while speaking English, I'll use regular old American English "Ls." If I were singing "Lillet" in French, I'd even go so far as to linger on the double "L" between the syllables.

[Betts]

From my French class days -- a double "L" preceded by a vowel is pronounced as a "Y". Think Chantilly as chan -tee-ee. If this is true would'nt it be lee-yea? with equal stress on both syllables?

[mongo_jones]

i feel very foolish asking this, but what does lillet taste like?

[Jonathan Day]

From my French class days -- a double "L" preceded by a vowel is pronounced as a "Y".  Think Chantilly as chan -tee-ee.  If this is true would'nt it be lee-yea? with equal stress on both syllables?

A better analogy might be with Fr ville or village. The ls are sounded, but only very lightly.

[bleudauvergne]

i feel very foolish asking this, but what does lillet taste like?

It has a light and delicate flavor, which was why I could not see this as a mixer. It tastes like a cross between dry white vermouth and a fruity muscat. It's quite addictive and you can count on having a second glass if you have it as an aperetif.

Edited May 10, 2004 by bleudauvergne (log)

[little ms foodie]

We  break out the Lillet when the weather gets warm, I've always been a rocks and maybe slice of orange girl, but the strawberry/mint drinks sounds wonderful, as does the rose/lillet kir.

Quick anecdote: I was in Paris alone, dining at restaurant on the Place des Vosges, and asked for a Lillet as an aperitif. The waiter seemed very puzzled, then asked how I would like it, so in my best French, I asked for it on ice. By now, I'm as puzzled as the waiter.  Then he brings me a large glass of milk, on ice, as is "lait"...we both had a good laugh, but he had honestly never heard of Lillet! 

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Holy crap!! This exact same thing happened to me in the south of France this summer!!Soooo funny!

[the queneau]

Strictly speaking, I would pronounce "Lillet" as: lee-LEH (in the International Phonetic Alphabet: [li-'lE]).  If I were saying "Lillet" while speaking French, I'd hit the "Ls" very lightly with the tip of the tongue.  When saying "Lillet" while speaking English, I'll use regular old American English "Ls."  If I were singing "Lillet" in French, I'd even go so far as to linger on the double "L" between the syllables.

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Americans pronouncing French make me giggle. Simple règle of the auld pouce:

2 syllable werd? Place ewer stress on the first syllable via a minor rising cadence, and finish the second syllable with a falling cadence. Keep it short. The notion of an extended vowel in French is a wee bit dingue, and makes ewe sound silly.

All of these werks for Lillet and anything else is wrong.

Thus spake the Queneau.

[slkinsey]

Americans pronouncing French make me giggle. Simple règle of the auld pouce:

2 syllable werd? Place ewer stress on the first syllable via a minor rising cadence, and finish the second syllable with a falling cadence. Keep it short. The notion of an extended vowel in French is a wee bit dingue, and makes ewe sound silly.

All of these werks for Lillet and anything else is wrong.

Thus spake the Queneau.

This is kind of cute, what with the homophonic affectations and all. But I don't think it is correct. Notwithstanding the fact that no three French speakers will agree on the precise pronunciation of a word, the general rule of thumb for two-syllable words in French is to place the stress on the final syllable. As in parFAIT, bonJOUR, voyAGE, aimER, etc. This, of course, does not mean that one won't hear BONjour instead of bonJOUR (etc.) in certain parts of France, but I believe that would be considered an accent much like "warsh" instead of "wash" down around Baltimore. But, hey, don't take my word for it: thus speaks the course materials for French 200 at Indiana University.

[the queneau]

This is kind of cute, what with the homophonic affectations and all.  But I don't think it is correct.  Notwithstanding the fact that no three French speakers will agree on the precise pronunciation of a word, the general rule of thumb for two-syllable words in French is to place the stress on the final syllable.  As in parFAIT, bonJOUR, voyAGE, aimER, etc.  This, of course, does not mean that one won't hear BONjour instead of bonJOUR (etc.) in certain parts of France, but I believe that would be considered an accent much like "warsh" instead of "wash" down around Baltimore.  But, hey, don't take my word for it: thus speaks the course materials for French 200 at Indiana University.

I think this might be one of those cyclical discussions where I say "Hmmm.. 'fraid ewe be wrong", and ewe counter by saying " Hmm.. I think ewe be wrong". Suffice to say, I'm not sure where ewe've lived in France, but ewer point about placing stress on the subordinate syllable is something of a cultural misnomer, the like of which is only found in a créole patois such as that in La Réunion. It simply isn't common practice in La France Métropole.

As for ewer point about not being able to find 3 French speakers to agree on the pronunciation of a werd, I think cultural anecdotes like this are pretty disingenuous, non? As well as being rather upsetting to the likes of Hélène Cixous.

As for not taking ewer werd for it, well, with all due respect, I won't. I'm a native French speaker who is 2/3 of the whey through my PhD. in the socio-linguistics of French Cultural Tourism of the Inter-War Years (if we're using academic clout to beef up an argument).

But we digress.

[slkinsey]

But we digress.

Indeed, yew halve a pointe they're. Lettuce knot continue.

[little ms foodie]

We tried the lillet blond with some leftover rose last night as an aperitif and it was soooo good!!! Great idea!

I have a half of bottle of the red in my fridge, so far I haven't liked it but I'm still looking for other good ideas. I hate to toss it!

[slkinsey]

I think Lillet Rouge is great just on the rocks with a twist.

[SushiCat]

Before spring or summer arrive, just getting to the bottom of a classic Lillet cocktail. This is on the menu somewhere that makes delicious cocktails and has as ingredients Lillet brandy Cointreau & lemon ... anyone have experience with this/anyone willing to offer up tried/true proportions? Seems like a good combo and I hate to let my Lillet 'age' from now until warm weather!

[slkinsey]

The Lillet Cocktail recipe in cocktailDB calls for three parts Lillet Blanc to two parts gin, so your ingredient list sounds like a more modern invention with the same name. I'm guessing the place that makes your cocktail is Parkside in Vancouver?

What you describe sounds to me almost like a "Reverse Sidecar" with Lillet serving as the reversing ingredient (a Sidecar is brandy, Cointreau and lemon juice). As chance would have it, reverse cocktails is something we're discussing right now in another thread.

[SushiCat]

The Lillet Cocktail recipe in cocktailDB calls for three parts Lillet Blanc to two parts gin, so your ingredient list sounds like a more modern invention with the same name.  I'm guessing the place that makes your cocktail is Parkside in Vancouver?

What you describe sounds to me almost like a "Reverse Sidecar" with Lillet serving as the reversing ingredient (a Sidecar is brandy, Cointreau and lemon juice).  As chance would have it, reverse cocktails is something we're discussing right now in another thread.

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Thanks, this version seems very gin-y, but I still might try it out. Yes Parkside, are you psychic? Did you notice I was recently at Parkside and enamored with the cocktail I had, a blood orange negroni ? It was oh so fine ... but the Lillet in my fridge is calling out to me.

cam-pai

[eje]

With all this talk recently of White Negronis and Lillet, I went through the rather informative Lillet Website to get a handle on the product's history.

1872 Company founded

1887 Lillet formula created

1895 Lillet launched in Bordeaux

1895 In the US and West Indies "Lillet Export Double Quinine" marketed as a tonic wine

1909 Two products available in Europe, Kina Lillet and Sauternes Lillet

1920 "Lillet Dry" created and introduced in England, "to suit English tastes, especially when mixed with gin."

1962 Lillet Rouge created

1985-86 Lillet modernized its manufacturing facilities and Lillet Blanc reformulated, "...fresher, fruitier, less syrupy, less bitter..."

edit - add link to website.

Edited August 20, 2007 by eje (log)

[slkinsey]

Sigh. If only Lillet would come out with an "antica formula" kind of deal.

[Chris Amirault]

What with Lillet getting beaten up hereabouts, I thought I'd share tonight's drink, taken from Patrick Gavin Duffy, the Odd McIntyre:

3/4 oz brandy

3/4 oz Cointreau

3/4 oz Lillet

3/4 oz lemon

Angostura bitters

It's not the most complicated concoction in the land, but it's a pleasant, summer's-almost-over drink.

[jgm]

moosnsqrl introduced me to Lillet about a year and a half ago while I was visiting Kansas City. We had it straight up, on the rocks. Lovely stuff. I will always have a special place in my heart for her, just for this! I had forgotten that I had a little bit left in the bottle.

[Mayur]

Sigh.  If only Lillet would come out with an "antica formula" kind of deal.

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The Cocchi Aperitivo Americano comes close to the "bitter" (kina) Lillet (I've done a side-by-side with a very well-preserved bottle), and I'd suggest that Noilly Prat Ambre is probably close to the Sauternes Lillet, although who knows? Vermouth herbals are tricky to judge. Anyone in the perfume industry who could lend a hand?

[slkinsey]

I've been thinking of making a quinine tincture I could keep in an eyedropper bottle and use to bump Lillet back up to pre-reformulation levels.

[thirtyoneknots]

Sigh.  If only Lillet would come out with an "antica formula" kind of deal.

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The Cocchi Aperitivo Americano comes close to the "bitter" (kina) Lillet (I've done a side-by-side with a very well-preserved bottle), and I'd suggest that Noilly Prat Ambre is probably close to the Sauternes Lillet, although who knows? Vermouth herbals are tricky to judge. Anyone in the perfume industry who could lend a hand?

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Old Lillet is based on Sauternes?!

[bostonapothecary]

Sigh.  If only Lillet would come out with an "antica formula" kind of deal.

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The Cocchi Aperitivo Americano comes close to the "bitter" (kina) Lillet (I've done a side-by-side with a very well-preserved bottle), and I'd suggest that Noilly Prat Ambre is probably close to the Sauternes Lillet, although who knows? Vermouth herbals are tricky to judge. Anyone in the perfume industry who could lend a hand?

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Old Lillet is based on Sauternes?!

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maybe it was like barolo chinato? as far as quality wine contributing to the nuance... chateau haut charmes is affordable enough to try it with... just need some good seville oranges and quinine... simple inputs and complex outputs or is there any other ingredients?

[thirtyoneknots]

My impression is that Lillet is based on a dry white Brodeaux table wine (ie a Semillon/Sauvignon Blanc blend). Aside from Sauternes being generally cost prohibitive for something like this, Lillet lacks the distinctive botrytis flavor of Sauternes and other wines made in that fashion.

[Mayur]

Old Lillet is based on Sauternes?! 

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I was referring to the fact that old Lillet has two formulas (three once they came up with Lillet Dry). As eje notes above, Continental Lillet had two varieties: "Kina Lillet" and "Sauternes Lillet." I was merely suggesting that something like Noilly Ambre (which appears to use a botrytised wine stock, from the taste) might be similar to this old "Sauternes Lillet."

This line has a picture of an old label FYI:

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Belle-etiquette-ancienn...2QQcmdZViewItem

However, I've never tasted this stuff nor met anyone who has, so I'm just presupposing out of whole cloth. Still, if one were dividing old-school Lillet into two categories, spicy-dry (kina) and botrytis-sweet (Sauternes), then I'd imagine the substitutions might work that way, though as I said, I've only been able to do a comparative taste test of Kina Lillet to Aperitivo Americano.