Bordeaux 2000s

[Rob_Ontario]

As Bordeaux 2000s slowly make their way into stores, does anyone have any thoughts/tasting notes/comments?

I am impatiently waiting for my futures order to arrive...but will be patient drinking them.

Robin

[ctgm]

When I tasted them in the cask, I thought that alot/most of them were over extracted and overoaked and made (with no disrespect meant) for the American market/taste. No doubt that over time these aspects will mellow out but will leave a wine which is not as charming as it might be.

I think that in the past this forum has commented that Bordeaux has rather lost its identity by making wines that appeal to one sector of the market rather than making a true Bordeaux.

Am I playing devil's advocate? Maybe a little but not about the over working of the wines. It would be interesting to see Craig's view on things as we all have different tastes.

[Craig Camp]

Robert Parker wrote in issue 139 of The Wine Advocate after tasting the 2000’s in January 2002 : “Retasting the 2000 vintage 3 to 4 months before bottling provided overwhelming evidence that this is the greatest vintage Bordeaux has ever produced. Remarkably consistent from top to bottom, there has never before been a year where so many exceptional wines were produced.”

That says it all. This is a Parker style vintage, which means highly extracted wines. At the same time this does not mean they are bad wines. Not every wine is over-oaked, but because of the nature of the vintage you can expect powerful wines. Top wines from this vintage are nowhere close to being ready to drink and so of course they taste woody, tannic and alcoholic as none of these aspects are resolved. It will take at least ten years for the best wines to really reveal themselves.

Careful selection will get you many great wines. If you go for Parker scored wines in the high 90's you can be assured they are powerful monsters with a lot of new oak. I tend to like a lot of the wines he scores 88 to 90 as I find them more restrained - and of course cheaper.

Mr. Parker's comments of course created a feeding frenzy that pushed prices through the roof. The every increasing pricing and now the weakness of the dollar means that those who bought futures got themselves a deal. It is very expensive to buy these wines now.

[Craig Camp]

I think that in the past this forum has commented that Bordeaux has rather lost its identity by making wines that appeal to one sector of the market rather than making a true Bordeaux.

Bordeaux changed by accident because the weather in 1982 produced a California style vintage. Parker called it the best vintage ever - it sold like crazy - the Chateaux made a fortune and they never looked back. They have made wines in this 'new' fashion for over 20 years now. It can no longer be called a new style - it is just Bordeaux.

On the bright side there does seem to be a slowly developing trend to make retrained and 'classic' wines. We can only hope it continues. Unfortunately the huge sales caused by Parker once again declaring the best vintage ever will only delay this trend.

Bordeaux is big business - a commodity. A very different place than Burgundy where small producers rule.

[Mark Sommelier]

Robin

[Craig Camp]

As a restaurant wine buyer, I am still purchasing 1985, 1986, 1989, 1990 and 1995 Bordeaux for current drinking at much lower prices than the 2000s are commanding.

This is great advice. There is a lot of Bordeaux out there in the market from fine vintages that already have a few years in the bottle.

[Elissa]

I've heard that the right bank in 2000 wasn't as stellar as the left. Has this been your experience?

[Craig Camp]

I've heard that the right bank in 2000 wasn't as stellar as the left. Has this been your experience?

No - perhaps the right is just a notch lower - but it is a very small notch. Excellent wines were made on both sides of the Gironde.

[mogsob]

2000 -- yawn. Overextracted monsters. Personally, I think Bordeaux made its best wine (in recent years) in 1997 and 1994 -- two difficult vintages that forced the winemakers to tone down the fruit and make more traditional wines. Both vintages are also very well-priced, all considered.

Besides, if I really wanted an over-oaked, overextracted wine -- I'd buy a St. Emilion from 1998 (indeed, I have two bottles of Tour Simard -- 14.99 at Waitrose btw -- that would knock the socks off of a Californian costing 10 times as much). Hey, sometimes I want to chew my wine.

[Craig Camp]

Bordeaux has feeding frenzies and 2000 is one of them. I agree that it is crazy to buy them at today's prices, if you did not buy them as futures, when there are so many excellent wines from top vintages available in the market for less money.

[Mark Sommelier]

Bordeaux has feeding frenzies and 2000 is one of them. I agree that it is crazy to buy them at today's prices, if you did not buy them as futures, when there are so many excellent wines from top vintages available in the market for less money

Now we have opened the can of worms. Remember the debacle last year when the Bordelaise actually considered offering the 2001 futures at the same price level as the 2000? These guys never learn. In my opinion, the last great value vintage was 1999. Well made wines, very forward. The distributors in this part of the country (Washington, DC) dumped these wines on the market at 50% markdowns to make room for the 2000s. There are still tons of '95 and '96 on the market at attractive prices. I recently bought '89 Cheval Blanc for $231 a bottle, a full $50 less than the thugs at Luis Vuitton Moet Hennessey are trying to sell the '98 for!!

[baruch]

Robin

As Bordeaux 2000s slowly make their way into stores, does anyone have any thoughts/tasting notes/comments?

Greetings,

The few 2000s I've tasted show this to be a fine vintage. As a restaurant wine buyer, I am still purchasing 1985, 1986, 1989, 1990 and 1995 Bordeaux for current drinking at much lower prices than the 2000s are commanding.

Mark

[Mark Sommelier]

Baruch asked me:

Assume a bottle of 1995 Bordeaux cost $20:

a) how much do u charge for that bottle on your wine list?

b) how much would u charge per glass, assuming that was an option, & assuming a "normal" pour is

5oz/glass?

c) what would that bottle cost in a retail store?

I consider wine pricing an art. Each restaurant has different circumstances governing the pricing strategy. For my particular restaurant the answers are:

a) $55

b) $15 for a 6 oz. pour

c) $30

[baruch]

merci beaucoup

in reality, should have used, as my example, a $50 bottle of the 1995 bordeaux!

Edited June 2, 2003 by baruch (log)

[Sparkitus]

Personally, I think Bordeaux made its best wine (in recent years) in 1997 and 1994 -- two difficult vintages that forced the winemakers to tone down the fruit and make more traditional wines.

I think nature did most of the toning down in those years.

1994 and 1997? Hardly Bordeaux's best in recent years - 1995 and 1996 were easily the best vintages of that decade by consensus. 94 and 97 are not for the long haul, but admittedly are drinking easily now ("restaurant vintages" as they say) if they are a little simple by comparison.

[Sparkitus]

Personally, I'm grateful for an opulent vintage like 2000 because it means at the lower end of the price/quality spectrum I'm going to be drinking some real gems over the next couple years - you know that the petits chateaux are not taking price hikes like the Grand crus are!

I did taste about 38 of the top chateaux at Vinexpo last year (2000 vintage), and I would have to agree with those who declare a mixed bag. The Poujeaux was one of the very best of the lot and the Figeac was disappointing, go figure.

[Elissa]

Bordeaux has feeding frenzies and 2000 is one of them. I agree that it is crazy to buy them at today's prices, if you did not buy them as futures, when there are so many excellent wines from top vintages available in the market for less money

In my opinion, the last great value vintage was 1999. Well made wines, very forward. The distributors in this part of the country (Washington, DC) dumped these wines on the market at 50% markdowns to make room for the 2000s.

99 is wine to drink now. bouncy and complex if fresh.

the mouton rothschild i especially liked

[Beachfan]

Baruch asked me:

Assume a bottle of 1995 Bordeaux cost $20:

a) how much do u charge for that bottle on your wine list?

b) how much would u charge per glass, assuming that was an option, & assuming a "normal" pour is

5oz/glass?

c) what would that bottle cost in a retail store?

I consider wine pricing an art. Each restaurant has different circumstances governing the pricing strategy. For my particular restaurant the answers are:

a) $55

b) $15 for a 6 oz. pour

c) $30

I think the problem (in terms of public perception) is that many places are discounting wine heavily, and you might see that wine for $24 or $25 at some of them. So what is less than double full retail is more than double retail in practice.

Edited June 22, 2003 by Beachfan (log)

[balex]

Bordeaux has feeding frenzies and 2000 is one of them. I agree that it is crazy to buy them at today's prices, if you did not buy them as futures, when there are so many excellent wines from top vintages available in the market for less money

In my opinion, the last great value vintage was 1999. Well made wines, very forward. The distributors in this part of the country (Washington, DC) dumped these wines on the market at 50% markdowns to make room for the 2000s.

99 is wine to drink now. bouncy and complex if fresh.

the mouton rothschild i especially liked

The 89s are delicious at the moment. I drank a Leoville Barton yesterday that was exactly how I like my claret. First bottle of some cases I bought soon after release -- it's nice when that long term planning pays off.

[Malik]

The 89s are delicious at the moment. I drank a Leoville Barton yesterday that was exactly how I like my claret.  First bottle of some cases I bought soon after release -- it's nice when that long term planning pays off.

I agree on the 89's drinking well right now, as are the 85's. I recently had an 89 Gruaud Larose that was delicious, nice example of a mature Bordeaux.