a rump and a dozen

[cew]

My friend and I engaged in a classic English wager. The stakes were "a rump and a dozen" -- a rump of beef and a dozen bottles of claret. I lost. Now I have to buy my friend a bottle of claret (the stakes were modified in consideration of my limited pocketbook) and I have a couple of questions.

Does claret = bordeaux = pinot noir?

Do you have any suggestions for a good but reasonably priced bottle of claret? I would especially like to find something that has characteristics similar to the classic "claret" that English men--and I do mean "men"--would drink a hundred years ago when the ladies retired to the drawing room.

Thanks for your suggestions!

[jackal10]

Claret means red Bordeaux, but wines in Bordeaux are not usually made from pinot noir.

The main grape varieties are Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Cabernet Franc, and some Petit Verdot.

Depends where you are in the world, but prices can range (in the UK including tax) from £3/bottle for generic claret to £60 a bottle for a classic wines to thousands for old special investment vintages of first growths. Robert Parker provides a widely used wine buyers guide, and online sites like WIne Spectator provide a rating service.

In the UK, surprisingly, the supermarket chain Tesco has some very good offers in their stores at the moment. If you can say where you are and your budget I'm sure gulleters can advise.

Edited May 7, 2003 by jackal10 (log)

[baruch]

i usually don't reply, but your q sb answered accordingly: claret is england's term 4 bx. that's it.

["T"]

Claret= Bordeaux. But, unless the class of Bordeaux was agreeded upon beforehand it cold cost you very little money.

[mogsob]

As the above posters have correctly noted, claret = red bordeaux and not pinot noir. As production methods have drastically changed over the last century, you are unlikely to find a claret such as those drunk by English gentlemen of the late Victorian/Edwardian eras.

That said, Waitrose sells a wine called "Good Ordinary Claret", which would be a cheap (3.99, if memory serves) and cheeky way to pay off the debt. You could also spring for a first growth (at about 100 pounds per bottle) or something in between (like Gruaud Larose, at about 40 pounds per bottle).

[jackal10]

I wonder if this is the same "Good Ordinary Claret" sold by Berry Borthers and Rudd (£4.75)?

If so that would be an excellent choice - its really a good wine.

Their web site is excellent www.bbr.com

In case you don't know BBR are one of the oldest wine merchants in the world (300 years or so), and very snob until recently. Their shop in St James is an experience. GOC has been sold for most of that time, and certainly would have been known and drunk a hundred years ago. They ship worldwide. but at a price

Depending on your budget you may even stretch to more than one bottle, or a magnum (£9.95)

[Carema]

Long long time ago claret was used to describe a light pink wine (rose, yes) favored by the british palate. (1300s & 1400s) It was before there was a lot of cabernet sauvignon in bordeaux (the medoc was still a swamp waiting to be drained by the dutch)- so buy him a bottle of anjou or saumur rose ( cabernet franc should be the grape a.k.a. gros bouchet in st. emillion) from the loire, cheap delicious and yes technically - a claret.

[Adam Balic]

"Clairet" ("Clear") still exists in Bordeaux, it is a Rose. Originally, Claret was a blend of white and Red wine, the earliest record of the wine in English (13th. C.) mentions 2 parts white to one part red. This would have been wine in barrels, not bottles. At some point the wine was blended in Bordeaux using Spanish red wine, so no longer a Rose and finally after the marriage of the cork and bottle, it was aged and not adulturated with foreign wine.

Gentleman would have drank well aged wine, so maybe a cheaper, old fashioned oxidized wine.

[Bill Klapp]

If you have to buy 2000 Bordeaux, you may have to try and weasel out on the bet with a "rump and ONE"!

[ctgm]

Claret means red Bordeaux, but wines in Bordeaux are not usually made from pinot noir.

It is illegal to plant Pinot Noir in Bordeaux so NEVER contain Pinot Noir

[cew]

I was thinking cab, I don't know why I wrote pinot. Still haven't figured out how to edit posts....

Anyway, thanks for your responses. I'm looking for clever/funny ways to pay off this bet ... that "Good Ordinary Claret" sounds perfect but I am in the U.S. Is there something comparable that is available to me in California?

I also appreciate the historical insight -- I always wondered what exactly they were drinking when they brought out the claret in books.

It did occur to me that I could pay off this bet with a case of Two-Buck Chuck ... I don't know if my friend would appreciate the joke, though, when saddled with 12 bottles of the stuff.

[KatieLoeb]

Anyway, thanks for your responses.  I'm looking for clever/funny ways to pay off this bet ... that "Good Ordinary Claret" sounds perfect but I am in the U.S.  Is there something comparable that is available to me in California?...

cew:

Foris Vineyards of Oregon produces a delicious and affordable wine called "Fly Over Red". It is a classic Bordeaux blend of Cabernet, Merlot and Cabernet Franc which is aged in French oak barrels. Smells and tastes like Bordeaux but is domestic. The "fly over" name is a reference to the small planes manned by Drug Enforcement Agency agents that "fly over" the vineyards, seeking illegal "botany experiments" planted amongst the vines. Seems that marjuana is a pretty big cash crop in the Pacific Northwest. This is the story I was told by my wine purveyor that carries this product, who says he heard it from the winemaker himself. Nonetheless, this wine is delicious, will pay off your bet in an interesting fashion, has a great story to go along with it and won't break the bank.

[Carema]

It did occur to me that I could pay off this bet with a case of Two-Buck Chuck ... I don't know if my friend would appreciate the joke, though, when saddled with 12 bottles of the stuff.   

What about white Zinfandel- there is a lot out there in sunny California isn't there? And true to form, a sort of claret. It would be better than 2 buck- carbonic macerated-over yielded- unlovable crap that it is.