Describing Gigondas

[tighe]

I first tasted a Gigondas several years ago and was struck by its distinctiveness and have recently started drinking it more regularly. There is a particular mouth-feel and flavor that I don't get with any other wine, but I have incredible difficulty putting words to my impressions of it. 'Musty' is about the best I can do, but it seems inadequate. What are the 'wine-speak' words usually associated with Gigondas and do others agree that is a very distinctive style of wine? Thanks....

[KatieLoeb]

Although not words I would use tableside to describe to a guest, the words, "barnyard", "horse blanket" and "animal" are good winespeak for Gigondas. Also dried black fruit scents and "cedary" (think cigar box smells) are common desciptors.

["T"]

I find Gigondas can have a chalky mouthfell to them as well as pepper on the palate, white pepper, that is.

[mogsob]

Personally, I don't find wine descriptors that refer to analogous smells/tastes very helpful. To this day, I don't know what "barnyard" means, having generally been applied to red Burgundies (which do not all smell the same to my nose -- let alone pinots from USA/Australia) and here to Gigondas, which smells quite differently. I also think it laughable to describe wine as tasting of cherries or any other fruit other than grapes. Hysterically, I would be laughed out of the room for describing a wine a grapey, even if that is what it is.

I would prefer (and was wondering if people agreed) that wine descriptors focus more on the elements of the wine, namely fruit, acid, tannins, structure/length etc. rather than one note descriptors.

I once in my youth bought a bottle of California merlot for a dinner party. The wine shop recommended it highly and I paid about $18 for it. The wine was very good and the next day I searched for it on WS Online. They had reviewed the bottle, giving it a 72 and summarily dismissing it as tasting like Campbell's Tomato Soup. Looking at the top scoring wine in that tasting (low 90s), WS described it as tasting like tar and pencil shavings. Well, I like tomato soup, but I wouldn't want to eat either tar or pencil shavings, let alone some evil combination of the two. Granted, it was the WS, a dubious publication at best, but isn't this all just a bit silly?

[Robin Meredith]

Mogsob,

Great post. My approach to wine was influenced heavily by Rosengarten & Wesson's "Red Wine With Fish" (which I believe is out of print and kind of hard to find these days). The authors advocated a structural approach to wine evaluation, emphasizing four universally relevant components (fruit, acid, tannin, and sugar/alcohol).

To me, this is the only truly rational way to approach wine evaluation and description. I can describe a wine using this framework, and any other reasonably serious taster will understand exactly what I'm talking about. Or, I can talk about flavors of lychee nuts, and my colleagues will end up doing what I did recently and buying a few from the market just to see what M. Parker is going on about when he attributes lychee nut flavors to Gewurtztraminer (he's right, but that's beside the point).

Once you get beyond these basic components, our taste impressions are just too personal to have much meaning to anyone but ourselves.

Of course, we have now officially hijacked this thread away from Gigondas, and I'm not sure how to get it back on track, except to say that in my experience Gigondas can be somewhat aggressively tannic in its youth, sometimes with dry, dusty tannins, but I have tasted some examples that displayed immense purity of fruit after about 10 years of bottle age (the 1988 Domaine du Cayron comes to mind). The wines are generally low in acid , with moderate to high alcohol and no residual sugar .

How's that?

[tighe]

Of course, we have now officially hijacked this thread away from Gigondas, and I'm not sure how to get it back on track, except to say that in my experience Gigondas can be somewhat aggressively tannic in its youth, sometimes with dry, dusty tannins, but I have tasted some examples that displayed immense purity of fruit after about 10 years of bottle age (the 1988 Domaine du Cayron comes to mind).  The wines are generally low in acid , with moderate to high alcohol and no residual sugar .

How's that?

Helpful....

The descriptions of the taste of Gigondas are consistent with my experience, but I still struggle to characterize the very unusual mouth-feel I get from it. I sometimes wonder if others simply don't experience it in the same way for whatever reason. Here I go using an unpleasant sounding analogy to explain something I find enjoyable, but the latest/best characterization is that I get a feeling almost like I've inhaled a small amount of chalk-dust into my mouth when I drink Gigondas. I've never experienced anything comparable with another wine.

One comment on mogsob's post. Wish I could remember exactly where I saw it, but some time ago I read an article on flavors in wine written by a chemist. They explained that tasting fruits and other substances in wines was often legitimate because chemical compounds created in the wine during fermentation and aging were actually closely related to compounds found in berries, melons, etc. That said, these descriptions get taken to rediculous lengths, in my opinion.

[Carema]

Is it only Gigondas that gives you this sensation? or other cotes du rhone, grenache focused wines (ie cairanne, seguret, vaqueyras)? have you experienced this while drinking Priorats from Spain? I feel as if Gigondas and sometimes Cairanne have the sensation of crushed seedy raspberries, juicy fruits coupled with the dry, twiggy seed. Perhaps this too is what you experience.

[scamhi]

A good gigondas...Dried cherry and tobacco. Very robust.

I have some bottles of 2000 Domaine Les Paillieres that are great examples of Gigondas.

[tighe]

Is it only Gigondas that gives you this sensation? or other cotes du rhone, grenache focused wines (ie cairanne, seguret, vaqueyras)? have you experienced this while drinking Priorats from Spain? I feel as if Gigondas and sometimes Cairanne have the sensation of crushed seedy raspberries, juicy fruits coupled with the dry, twiggy seed. Perhaps this too is what you experience.

Yes, only Gigondas, so far at least.... Nearly all French wine that I drink is from somewhere along the Rhone and none of the others have produced the same sensation. My experience with Spanish wines is pretty thin, and I don't think I've had Priorats, so who knows? I have had other carrignan wines from Languedoc and the Pyrenees which, although enjoyable, didn't produce the same 'chalky' sensation. Maybe I'm just a freak!

["T"]

Freak.

[Carema]

Maybe the 'terroir' of Gigondas speaks to you, in a language only you and that particular square of earth share. Lucky you. Add some rosemary and garlic laden lamb to the conversation, and see what that says!!!

[mogsob]

The combination of young tannins and high acid can produce a noticeable drying effect in the mouth that I guess could be described as chalky. By contrast to the textural tasting note you discovered, St. Juliens are notable for a pronounced terrior in their better wines that has been described as being not unlike the flavor of chalk (which of course begs the question of what these critics have been eating with their wine).

[tighe]

Maybe the 'terroir' of Gigondas speaks to you, in a language only you and that particular square of earth share. Lucky you. Add some rosemary and garlic laden lamb to the conversation, and see what that says!!!

I think that says "died and gone to heaven"..... For me at least, lamb with Rhone wines is one of the ultimate food-wine combos....

[tighe]

The combination of young tannins and high acid can produce a noticeable drying effect in the mouth that I guess could be described as chalky....

Interesting, that could be it. I've never really had an older Gigondas, so perhaps that wouldn't produce the same mouth-feel for me. Guess I'm going to have to hunt down an older bottle or try to keep my hands off something I already have for several years...

[Carema]

The combination of young tannins and high acid can produce a noticeable drying effect in the mouth that I guess could be described as chalky.  By contrast to the textural tasting note you discovered, St. Juliens are notable for a pronounced terrior in their better wines that has been described as being not unlike the flavor of chalk

This could be a bit confusing because when referring to acid levels I think it might be ill advised to compare St Julien to Gigondas. We are looking at a Cabernet focused (usually) cool climate wine versus a Grenache focused warm climate wine. So therefore the acid levels are not truly comparable. But I agree with you about tannins as long as we make a distinction regarding fruit vs wood tannin. Many Gigondas are aged in foudre (large used barrels) and Bordeaux... well it depends, anything from no barrel ageing to heavy barrique. Also lets look superficially at soils: St Julien is planted in a very uniform gravelly soil while Gigondas vines spring from rockier soils- much less fine. Although at the end of the day I do agree- St Julien is quite chalky in its youth!