wd-50

[Wilfrid]

I'm obliged to you, sir, for pointing out my lack of rigour, and I retire abashed.

[tommy]

I think that was a little different.  Otto held itself out as an Enoteca.  There was no way that they could not serve wine by the glass.  In order for WD50's position of not serving salad to be analogous, it would have to be a salad bar. 

eh. they served it by the big glass, just like at batali's other places. esca and babbo (lupa too?) didn't concede if there were complaints, although i'm thinking it wasn't as big an issue at those particular restaurants. however, the customer base at otto apparently wanted smaller portions. not sure why.

[Ron Johnson]

eh.  they served it by the big glass, just like at batali's other places.  esca and babbo (lupa too?) didn't concede if there were complaints, although i'm thinking it wasn't as big an issue at those particular restaurants.  however, the customer base at otto apparently wanted smaller portions.  not sure why. 

I was just relying on Wilfrid's statement that at some point it was not served by the glass at all.

Personally, I am all for the bigger glass of wine.

[Wilfrid]

They were serving only the 25cl quartinos at first (oh, see Otto thread page 947)....

[tommy]

I was just relying on Wilfrid's statement that at some point it was not served by the glass at all.

Personally, I am all for the bigger glass of wine.

ah. so we're all clear, they were serving wine by the quartino, which is about 1/3 of a bottle, as they do at Esca and Babbo (and i assume lupa).

[Ron Johnson]

ah.  so we're all clear, they were serving wine by the quartino, which is about 1/3 of a bottle, as they do at Esca and Babbo (and i assume lupa).

So Wilfrid was right, they were not serving wine by the glass back in the beginning when they were making pizzas on that shitty crust that everyone hated but is now better and deserving of two stars?

[Wilfrid]

But is it Tommy's contention that you can't get wine by the glass at the other Batali restaurants? Just to stay right on topic.

[Ron Johnson]

But is it Tommy's contention that you can't get wine by the glass at the other Batali restaurants?  Just to stay right on topic.

Depends. Are they two stars as well?

[Wilfrid]

Ah, look what Babbo says:

"Why not just pour wine by the single glass? For one, the quartino allows the guest to control how much wine to drink at a particular time. Part of the fun of drinking wine is swirling it around in the glass, smelling it, sipping and savoring it slowly. You can’t do that if the glass is filled up practically to the rim. The quartino puts the control in your hands."

I didn't realize this had been a general Batali/Bastianich approach. (Well, what more can we say about WD50 until it opens?)

[tommy]

But is it Tommy's contention that you can't get wine by the glass at the other Batali restaurants?  Just to stay right on topic.

Depends. Are they two stars as well?

they're italian. probably deserving of only 1 star as the cuisine, by definition, holds them back. but they have big glasses of wine.

wilfrid, i'm pretty sure esca and babbo don't have regular 6 oz glasses (or whatever the standard "glass" is). but, i suppose if you wore a skirt in, they'd give you a little one so you don't get too tipsy.

[tommy]

Ah, look what Babbo says:

"Why not just pour wine by the single glass? For one, the quartino allows the guest to control how much wine to drink at a particular time. Part of the fun of drinking wine is swirling it around in the glass, smelling it, sipping and savoring it slowly. You can’t do that if the glass is filled up practically to the rim. The quartino puts the control in your hands."

I didn't realize this had been a general Batali/Bastianich approach.  (Well, what more can we say about WD50 until it opens?)

why not put a regular sized pour into the quartino in that case?

[Wilfrid]

Or just leave the open bottle on the table. That's what I do at home.

[tommy]

Or just leave the open bottle on the table.  That's what I do at home. 

don't some places (and i suppose they aren't in that states) do that, and charge you for what you drink? i rather like that approach.

[Wilfrid]

There was that nice place down in SoHo used to do that. What was it called? Anyway, it's closed now.

[Ron Johnson]

they're italian.  probably deserving of only 1 star as the cuisine, by definition, holds them back.

LOL. so I have heard.

[ngatti]

Or just leave the open bottle on the table.  That's what I do at home.

don't some places (and i suppose they aren't in that states) do that, and charge you for what you drink? i rather like that approach.

Reminds of a lunch in Florence. Me (alone) a big bowl of tripe with tomaotes a copy of the trib and a large bottle of chianti with a tumbler.

The waiter in broken English: "you drink, you pay."

Nick

[mogsob]

WD50 is just in the nick of time. When this board's primary activity is to endlessly debate the merits of a PIZZA JOINT, well, you know things have gotten a bit stale.

I will be interested to see the pricing at WD50. My problem with El Bulli, Gagnaire et al. was that you paid so much money for a meal that was less than perfect at times. At that price, I want perfection in everything, but to demand that would be to undermine the integrity of such restaurants. If WD50 is priced along the lines of 71 Clinton St., I think a new and exciting trend will be upon us. 71 Clinton showed NY that moderately priced casual restaurants were capable of a higher standard of cooking, and sure enough, a wide range of restaurants followed (Tocqueville, Blue Hill, Annisa etc.). Even Craft, in a way, is a product of 71 Clinton, which made NYers demand a higher quality of meal from restaurants.

WD50 has the potential to expand the bounds of the limited menus served by 80% of the restuarnts in NY (if I never eat tuna tartare, seared foie gras or roasted scallops again, they won't be missed). WD50 is brave to challenge NYers -- it will be the very first restaurant I go to when I am home next month.

Finally, I applaud any restaurant with the sense to omit salad from its menu. I'm not sure what I despise more, the space it takes up on the menu or the people who order them. Also, perhaps we can get a law passed restricting wine by the glass to California chards and merlot.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Mogsob - Do you have your chronology correct? Was 71 Clinton really open before all of those other places?

[mogsob]

Steve P -- I wouldn't swear to it, but it seemed to me that I first heard about 71 Clinton and then those others.

[Liza]

Mogsob, If you have the time and are comfortable, I'd love to hear your reasons why you despise people who order salads.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Salad is pedestrian. It's for tourists. Not all salads mind you, but the ones usually on the menus at top restaurants. They are not there to make a gastronomic statement. They are there so picky eaters have something they can order without suffering a panic attack.

[tommy]

Salad is pedestrian. It's for tourists. Not all salads mind you, but the ones usually on the menus at top restaurants. They are not there to make a gastronomic statement. They are there so picky eaters have something they can order without suffering a panic attack.

they are also there so that people can order three courses and not be stuffed by dessert. or is this another one of those black-and-white issues where 1 or 2 people are "right" and the rest of the world "doesn't understand."

[Steve Plotnicki]

Well that is a variation on the same theme. The point is why go to Daniel for dinner and eat a salad? Theoretically, you are going to have them do their culinary razzle dazzle for you and a salad is a poor backdrop for that. Some salads are, like when heirloom tomatoes are in season. But in general, salads that are based around greens are not.

[tommy]

The point is why go to Daniel for dinner and eat a salad?

for the entree, dessert, wine list, service, room, because you were invited, because a client wanted to go there. do you need any other examples?

[Liza]

Sure, some salads are pedestrian. Some restaurants are pedestrian, too.

But to dismiss them out of hand is shortsighted and thoughtless, especially given the beauty and variety of vegetables on offer in the NYC area.

(At Cafe Boulud on Saturday, I enjoyed the frisee salad with lardons, chicken livers and poached egg. Far more interesting than the ubiquitous tuna tartare.)

EDIT: If this point is to be discussed, it should be removed from the WD-50 thread and moved elsewhere.

Edited March 5, 2003 by Liza (log)