Bocuse's Loup En Croute

[cabrales]

I may have to choose between Bocuse's loup en croute dish (bass in a pastry shell) and his red mullet with potato scales. Could members who have sampled either dish provide input?

[marcus]

I've had the loup en croute twice, am not at all familiar with the red mullet dish. However, I would choose a bass over a red mullet for a main dish in general. I consider the loup en croute and the poulet de bresse en vessie Bocuse's greatest dishes, much greater than the truffle soup, and I once had them together in the same meal, which was a mistake because they both have rich cream sauces. I would describe the loup en croute as brilliant, oppulant and rich, and overall astounding. However, I don't know how it would withstand a microanalysis, as that is not my approach to eating. I would consider the loup en croute to be of the same time period and sensibility as Haeberlin's salmon souffle, old fashioned by today's fashions, although the dishes certainly are also significantly different. These are my two cents on the dish, although I generally find that our tastes are quite orthogonal. Loup en croute is probably as far as one can get from a dish at Blue Hill.

[vmilor]

If red mullet is rouget then it is every bit a noble fish as loup de mer but somehow the best rouget preparations are always in Italy or Turkey because you do not need to do much to a fresh rouget which should be fried and eaten as soon as it is caught.

I had the loup en croute there and I wholeheartedly second Cabrales. Old fashioned or post-post modern it is a great dish and really was more impressive than the soup. Actually the best truffe soup(en croute) I had was at Chez Panisse and concocted by Chris Lee. Truffe en croute is a different matter and nobody beats the LePeyre truffle prepared by Pacaud at Ambroisie. Sometimes it is not on the menu but you can order it when you reserve.

Tell us how Bocuse is faring nowdays.....

[lizziee]

LePeyre truffle prepared by Pacaud at Ambroisie.

vmilor,

I have never seen that on the menu. Would you please describe the dish? Also, do you preorder it when making a reservation?

[Bux]

I've had the loup en croute twice, am not at all familiar with the red mullet dish.  However, I would choose a bass over a red mullet for a main dish in general. 

From the recipe page for Crisp Paupiette of Sea Bass in a Barolo Sauce on Daniel Boulud's web site: "Paul Bocuse's Rouget en Écailles de Pomme de Terre inspired this exquisite dish of tender fish fillets wrapped in a crisp crust of sliced potatoes. But since those beautifully briny red mullets from the Mediterranean are rarely available in this country, I suggest sea bass, which makes a superb substitute."

[cabrales]

I consider the loup en croute and the poulet de bresse en vessie Bocuse's greatest dishes ... and I once had them together in the same meal, which was a mistake because they both have rich cream sauces.  I would describe the loup en croute as brilliant, oppulant and rich, and overall astounding....

although I generally find that our tastes are quite orthogonal.

marcus -- Could you describe the loup a bit more? It is sometimes described as having Choron sauce in certain Bocuse recipes, if I vaguely recall (?). Is the pastry shell delicious? Is the fish cut up table-side? Why is this brilliant, in your view?

I'm glad you mentioned having the loup before the poulet en vessie, because that is my plan over the course of a single meal (with no cheese/dessert). I see quantity concerns, for both dishes are intended for two people and I would be ordering both dishes as such, but only have a single diner.

On our tastes being non-aligned, are you basing your assessment on a number of restaurant write-ups we have each provided?

On the black truffle soup...

Bocuse's Soupe aux Truffes V.G.E. (truffle soup in honor of a French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing) and Troisgros' Escalope de Saumon a L'Oseille (salmon with sorrel sauce). 

Not only are both dishes well-known, but they are also linked by Bocuse and Pierre Troisgros' friendship.  Chapel, Jean Troisgros, François Bise and Jacques Pic are the subject of Mural #4 of the "Grand Chef" murals that form part of Bocuse's restaurant.  Each deceased chef is portrayed with a signature dish, including, in the case of J. Troisgros, the salmon with sorrel. 

http://www.ec-lyon.fr/tourisme/Rhone-Alpes...lerie/4.html.en

In addition, the truffle soup and the salmon were both served in February 1975 to V.G.E. when Bocuse received the Legion of Honor.  (This was also the occasion featured in a wax museum scene involving Bocuse.)  The menu for this meal follows:<p>Soupe aux Truffes V.G.E., Paul Bocuse

Escalope de Saumon de Loire a l'Oseille, Jean et

    Pierre Troisgros

Canard Claude Jolly, Michel Guerard (a duck dish whose

    ingredients included foie gras, veal stock and

    bordeaux)

Les Petites Salades du Moulin, Roger Verge (a little

    salad from the mill, referring to Moulin de Mougins)

Fromages

Desserts, Paul Bocuse

Montrachet 1970, Romanee-Conti  :)

Chateaux Margaux 1926

Morey Saint-Denis 1969

Michael Buller's "French Chefs Cooking" offers an anecdote from this meal: "When the President and Madame Giscard d'Estaing were seated with the chefs, the soup in front of them, the President turned to Paul and asked him how to start. Taking up his spoon, Paul replied, 'Mr. President, vous cassez la croute.'  Literally, you break the crust, from the French slang expression for a bit of lunch, casse-croute." 

Buller documents Bocuse's thoughts on the dish: "This was my interpretation of an old, traditional dish, a vegetable soup popular with the peasants of the Auvergne and Ardeche regions, with a sprinkle of grated truffle.  All I added was the light top layer of flaky pastry, making it similar to the chicken pie of England . . . .  The layer of pastry preserves the fragrance of the dish until it's ready to be eaten."   (A similar "concentration" effect manifests itself in Boyer's Truffe en Croute dish, with a pastry shell enveloping a whole black truffle.)  Note that Bocuse's soup also contains foie gras and chicken cosumme.

I have not yet tasted the Troisgros dish [that has since changed], but have tasted Bocuse's soup.  It was **disappointing** because the slices of black truffle had been rendered soggy and unappealing from undue immersion in the broth.   The expected strong upflow of truffle smells, upon the piercing of the large puff pastry top to the soup, did not materialize.

My only meal at Bocuse to date was very poor. It was among the worse three-star meals I have ever had. That might beg the question as to why I am planning a return, but I don't see a desire to return as being contradictory inherently with having had poor experiences at the venue.

Edited January 22, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[cabrales]

I've had the loup en croute twice, am not at all familiar with the red mullet dish.  However, I would choose a bass over a red mullet for a main dish in general. 

From the recipe page for Crisp Paupiette of Sea Bass in a Barolo Sauce on Daniel Boulud's web site: "Paul Bocuse's Rouget en Écailles de Pomme de Terre inspired this exquisite dish of tender fish fillets wrapped in a crisp crust of sliced potatoes. But since those beautifully briny red mullets from the Mediterranean are rarely available in this country, I suggest sea bass, which makes a superb substitute."

Bux -- Consistent with your description, Brenner notes in "The Fourth Star" (pp. 101-2) the paupiette of sea bass:

"'It's one of Daniel's signature dishes,' he [Charles, a captain] says. 'It is very good.' Originally inspired by Paul Bocuse's Rouget en Ecailles de Pomme de Terre (rouget in potato scales), the dish dates back to Boulud's tenure at Le Cirque. The sea bass fillets are wrapped in paper-thin slices of potato, cooked a la poele (in a pan) to a beautiful golden brown, placed atop a soft, buttery bed of leeks, and sauced with a shimmering reduction of syrah. Although it sells more than any other dish -- Daniel served somewhere between twenty and twenty-five thousand paupiettes last year -- it's simpler than most of the other preparations, and doesn't feature the kind of spectacular vegetable farnishes that distinguish most of Daniel's fish dishes. Boulud sees beauty in its simplicity; he's still as excited to cook it as he was the day he created it in 1987."

I have not yet sampled this paupiette dish. Is the potato wrapping on both "sides" of the fish (i.e., upper and lower), and is that different from the ecailles on the Bocuse rouget dish?

Edited January 22, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[marcus]

Cabrales -- I have eaten at Bocuse three times, early 70s, early 80s and mid 90s. The first 2 meals I consider among the greatest that I have experienced. The 3d was still very good, but a step down in both quality of the dishes and service. Paul Bocuse was in the restaurant, but acting primarily as a greeter, it was not clear whether he ever set foot in the kitchen. Clearly this is a restaurant whose best days have passed, but I would expect that they can still do a good job on their signature dishes.

The second meal was the time that I had the loup en croute and the poulet en vessie at the same time. As I recall, the loup came out on a platter and was sliced in half and put on two plates. I don't remember all of the ingredients, but I am sure that the recipe is well documented and easy to find. The cream sauce was enriched with either lobster of langoustine. At this point in time, I remember my impression more than the details. I do remember the croute as being secondary. Getting back to your dish selection question, I am not a fan of Daniel's bass with potato crust, but this does not necessarily reflect on the rouget dish at Bocuse.

With regard to the poulet, you need to check, because depending on the chickens available, this dish is sometimes only available for 4. In any event it is served in 2 courses with a rich cream sauce accompanying the breast serving, not quite as rich as the loup. This is clearly not a good menu construction combination with the loup en croute, but intense interest could legitimately overcome this concern. It will cause considerable gallbladder stress. We could not finish both dishes and asked for a doggie bag, a real no-no in France, but they were very accomodating and packed everything up nicely.

Paul Bocuse gets his cheese from Mere Richard in the Lyon Halles, and you can make a separate trip there to try their St Marcellin, my vote for the best cheese in the world. At the restaurant, he offers a soft cow's milk cheese as an alternative to the cheese board, which may be more interesting. I once asked for and got both, but also got a dirty look, these are definitely intended to be alternative.

On our tastes not being aligned, I base this on your approach to reviewing a meal as exemplified in your reviews, and your final conclusions with regard to key restaurants such as ADPA, Bras and Haeberlin, which are among my favorites and which you do not appear to regard. I am also not a fan of Blue Hill, although I've only been there once. In fact, the only major restaurant where we have genuinely agreed is Trotter's and possibly Le Bernardin.

[cabrales]

marcus -- I wouldn't say I dislike Bras' cuisine, although I haven't found it compelling to date. Note that my several meals were all over the course of one visit. I plan to return after a while.

[Bux]

Boulud sees beauty in its simplicity; he's still as excited to cook it as he was the day he created it in 1987."

I have not yet sampled this paupiette dish.  Is the potato wrapping on both "sides" of the fish (i.e., upper and lower), and is that different from the ecailles on the Bocuse rouget dish?

I've had Daniel's sea bass in potato crust only once. I thought it was excellent. It's a simple dish that needs to be done very well. As I recall, the potato is wrapped around the fish fillets. From the recipe: "... fold the edges of the potatoes over the fish to enclose it entirely" The very fine potato slices are tossed in butter in a pan before they are wrapped around the fish. I'm not sure if the potatoes are crisped on the sides as well as on the top and bottom. I sort of remember them as that way, but from the recipe, I don't see how that is possible. Then again recipes for the home cook are rarely as complete a description of what a cook in an haute cuisine kitchen is going to do.

I'm inclined to question the veracity of the comment about how excited Daniel is to cook the dish. People tend to say strange things when being interviewed for books and articles. They often say what's expected or what they think they should say. I recall reading an article years ago with Daniel Boulud and remember him saying back then that they tried to take the dish off the menu, but that diners demanded it. I'm sure he said his cooks were tired of preparing it. I suspect he would not be thrilled to cook it himself, but it must be nice to have developed a dish that remains so popular. I think it's a wonderful dish and I'd like to have it again, but I don't get to eat there all that often and never get around to ordering it. I also don't think it's necessarily the strongest dish on the menu these days.

[Steve Martin]

I wouldn't have either. Are you sure you want to go to Bocuse.

Here is my short review from my site at www.eurosnaps.com.

Paul Bocuse. One of the greatest and most venerated names in the world of gastronomy. He maintains a team of award winning chefs at his three star restaurant at Collonges-au-Mont-d'Or, part of Lyon.

A safe bet for a memorable birthday lunch, you would think.

The premises are a riot of colour and bad taste. The doorman did his job perfectly, although dressed in a uniform more suited to a chimpanzee. The silverware was from a farmhouse and the crockery from a nursery. We had the small menu of soup des moules and fish en croûte. It was perfectly executed and served, but totally lacking in balance and indeed vegetables.

Although our first course was a workman's portion of mussel soup, the amuse-bouche was pumpkin soup (it was under seasoned, but was good when salt was added).

The main course was loup baked in a good puff pastry. It was expertly filleted and plated at the table. The cavity had been filled with egg and this was served as well. The sauce Choron was slathered over the top and the plate very nearly covered with a massive piece of the pastry. No vegetables featured in what was so far a meal of fish, egg, butter and flour.

We made our selection of what looked like good cheese, but then left nearly all of it because it was stone cold. They were keeping it in a fridge, which left it hard and completely lacking in taste and aroma. It was in a condition that I would not have thought possible in France: it is most probably a crime. The waiters were embarrassed and gave us free dessert wine.

The pre-dessert was a small, plain crème brûlée. Then the equivalent of a sweet trolley, with very generous servings.

I don't recommend the place and Michelin really should be clearing out some of these 3 star hangers on. After this and our lesser disappointment at Georges Blanc, I am now very wary about visiting the long-established names.

[vmilor]

LePeyre truffle I have never seen that on the menu. Would you please describe the dish? Also, do you preorder it when making a reservation?

You are right. I looked at the menus I have. Only one of the menus has this dish:"feuillete de trufffe fraiche "bel humeur", salade de mache.

In other menus it is not printed. But then the maitre d'/sommelier Pierre Lemoullac wrote down the dishes we had with beautiful handwriting(ask me, our French teachers used to spank us when we had ugly handwriting at middle school. Any connections to excellent cooking techniques??). The dish again reads:Feuillete de truffe"bel humeur".

I know it is a cliche to use the term but Pacaud is a perfectionist among perfectionists. I once had a less than perfectly fresh rouget at Robuchon but never at L'Ambroisie. They are also very loyal to their suppliers. As far as I know they only use Lepeyre truffles from Perigord and Monsieur Lepeyre(whom actually I had met at Chez Panisse in 1991) is a customer who had told me that this was the best preparation of any truffle dish he knows of. Anyway my understanding is that they only include this dish in the menu if they have enough truffles which they consider sufficiently dark and ripe. They do not normally have it before January. Even in early January they may not have enough top quality truffles to include it in the menu. I mention it when I reserve and always leave the menu choice to Monsieur Pascal. He always remember that I eat everything but chicken!!

A one word description of the dish is "ethereal". Pacaud's philosphy is that you either do not eat perigord truffles or you have to take large bites(Monsieur LeMoullac coined the term"craquer"). He simply slices a whole and large truffle in half, tops it with silky duck foie gras and keeps them warm in a moist pastry crust. He serves it with real sauce perigourdine, the like of which may have been eaten in Careme's times. On the side there is a mache(like butter lettuce or lamb lettuce) salad which is served with creme fraiche and thickly sliced truffles. There is more truffle in this salad than, say Ducasse had included in his own version(he does not do it anymore)and had called it, I believe, clafoutis de truffe.

Now I had similar truffle en croute (in crust) in France zillions of times and in San Francisco, at La Folie once. Descriptions will be similar, except Passot added a prosciutto slice. They were all good. But the version in L'Ambroisie is something that is a conversation stopper. As soon as you slice it open, the aroma that fills the room is embarrasing(when it is not on the menu)and reassuring at the same time.

Now Pacaud's style is like that. His dishes are not too difficult to describe and there are not too many ingredients. But (I can not prove that point) I believe they may be taking more research and time to prepare than some very complex dishes at places like El Bulli or Veyrat. Last November we were in Alba and had good dishes of the usual suspect. Then we came to Paris for one day and at L'Ambroisie we had "parmentiere de noix de st. Jacques au cresson, truffe blanche d'Alba" which was better than any anti pasti which I had tried in Alba with truffles. But the amazing thing is the QUALITY of truffles was better than (they were more aromatic) what we had tried in good restaurants around Alba which are frequented by the readers of this site. I still do not understand this.

By the way the truffe feuillete is going well with 85 red burgundy grands crus which are drinking quite well now!

[Bux]

Pacaud is a perfectionist among perfectionists.

Undoubtedly, and this is either a strong point to many or or boring to others who cannot appreciate this.

Pacaud's style is like that. His dishes are not too difficult to describe and there are not too many ingredients. But (I can not prove that point) I believe they may be taking more research and time to prepare than some very complex dishes at places like El Bulli or Veyrat. Last November we were in Alba and had good dishes of the usual suspect. Then we came to Paris for one day and at L'Ambroisie we had "parmentiere de noix de st. Jacques au cresson, truffe blanche d'Alba" which was better than any anti pasti which I had tried in Alba with truffles. But the amazing thing is the QUALITY of truffles was better than (they were more aromatic) what we had tried in good restaurants around Alba which are frequented by the readers of this site. I still do not understand this.

I think the amount of time it takes to research a dish, is rather irelevant as may be the time it takes to perfect a dish--which may be a more applicable description of Pacaud's process--in comparison with the end result. I think that even among conniosseurs of the first rank, there's going to be a subjective degree of appreciation for one style over the other, but that one needs an appreciation of Pacaud and Ducasse as well as Adria, Gagnaire and Veyrat to fully appreciate those who conform to one's own subjective style. The reality is that Pacaud's food would not work if it were just perfect and boring and the more "creative" approaches would not work if they were less than technically perfect. There's a fine tuning all around.

I have not eaten white truffles in, or around Alba, but it's not unknown for any local product to be sold to the highest bidder who may not be local.

[Bux]

I'm sorry, I also meant to include the description of a dish I had at Ambroisie. Towards one side of the plate was a pyramidal stack of carrots, all trimmed to the right size like Lincoln logs. To the right of this was a lobe of sweetbreads studded with truffles resembling cut nails (about 1/8" by 3/16"). the whole resembled nothing so much as what a kindergartener might make out of play dough and call a porcupine. I could not see how to improve the dish, although I could offer dozens of suggestions as to how to make it more complicated or fanicer in presentation.

[vmilor]

I could not see how to improve the dish, although I could offer dozens of suggestions as to how to make it more complicated or fanicer in presentation.

Intuitively this may have been my criteria for judgment but I never expressed it so succintly. Looked at from this vantage point maybe we can advance the debate on objective comparisons of restaurants within and across national borders. This statement also holds true for other forms of art. Let's consider, for example, how very elegant ladies dress: just optimum accessories and color combinations where anything extra will deduct from the overall effect. It holds even true for professional fields, i.e. when one spends too much time revising, say a contract or an article, there is a point beyond which the extra effort will not add but detract from the overall quality. Thanks for the stimulation.