Ultrasperse

[ChrisTaylor]

I am eyeing off the 'turkey gravy' recipe in Modernist Cuisine. It calls for Ultrasperse 3. I have Ultrasperse M, though I've never used it. Are Ultrasperse M and 3 the same product? If not, can I at least use them in the same way? Do I need to add more/less of M than I would 3?

[pbear]

Not an expert. The main difference between the two is that 3 is made from tapioca, while M is made from corn. As i recall, Team Nathan prefers 3 to M for this reason alone. (That's based on @Home, as I don't have the full set.) For a little more information, see the Modernist Pantry entries for each, here and here. FWIW, MP lists sauces and gravies for 3, but doesn't mention any particular applications for M. That said, I'm pretty sure M will work for gravies, as it's heat stable. Haven't tried it, though. Mostly posting to supply the links. As for quantity, I'd start with one-to-one, then add a little more M if needed.

[ChrisTaylor]

We'll see. I have enough brown stock made up that if I kill my gravy I can always use the rest to make a jus and pretend that's what I wanted all along.

[nickrey]

If it's a gravy that will be served heated, why not use potato starch? Sometimes a thickener is just a thickener.

[ChrisTaylor]

Approximately how much potato starch would you use for ~200mL reduced stock? I've only ever really used potato starch for coatings (i.e. the turkey wing recipe).

[Baselerd]

If it's a gravy that will be served heated, why not use potato starch? Sometimes a thickener is just a thickener.

The whole point of using Ultrasperse is that it has much better flavor release than traditional starches.

[ChrisTaylor]

Well, I've made my gravy. Ultrasperse M seems to work. Having never used it before, I went with the book's 8 grams of thickener to 200 grams of heavily reduced stock ratio. This plus a couple grams of sage, a good grind of black pepper and a little bit of salt has made for a nice gravy with a good consistency. We'll see how it sits with the turkey I'm smoking.

The gravy has a clean flavour: it tastes no different (well, aside from the sage and seasoning) to the heavily reduced, pressure cooked chicken and turkey stock I started with.

Edited December 28, 2013 by ChrisTaylor (log)

[pbear]

If it's a gravy that will be served heated, why not use potato starch? Sometimes a thickener is just a thickener.

The whole point of using Ultrasperse is that it has much better flavor release than traditional starches.

As I said, I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that the main advantages of Ultra-Sperse starches (and the similar Ultra-Tex ones) from a food service perspective are that (i) they're cold-swelling, so they consistently hit the desired consistency without careful attention to heating and stirring, and (ii) they're more stable than conventional starches (under which conditions apparently being the main difference among the various types). Perhaps there's also an advantage with respect to flavor release, but I've never seen this mentioned. Is it discussed in the main MC set? (Which, as mentioned, I don't have.)

Stated a little differently, nickrey, of course one can use a conventional starch in a cook-up sauce or gravy. (Not a fan of potato starch, but the same comment would apply to ordinary cornstarch and tapioca flour.) I'm sure almost all of us have been doing this for years. It's mostly a question of whether the greater expense of modified starches is worth the advantages. In the middle is modified cook-up cornstarch, which is what I generally use for sauces and gravies, because it has the stability of the cold-swelling ones but is much less expensive. Also, it holds up pretty well in pressure canning, for which the cold-swelling starches aren't suitable.

BTW, ChrisTaylor, glad to hear your gravy came out well.

[nickrey]

I agree that when you're using different temperatures or non-conventional approaches, then the modernist starches are appropriate - but for bog standard gravy...

For 200 ml of gravy, you'd probably only need a teaspoon of potato starch. It has no discernible flavour and is a more effective thickener than corn starch. Moreover, you can dissolve it in water and add to the gravy without fear of lumps or that undercooked, pasty taste you get from flour.

It seems to me that modernist acolytes are a bit like the person with the hammer: if it is all you have, everything is a nail. You see similar things with overuse of sous vide cooking: sometimes conventional really is better.

I'd be interested in a reference on greater flavour release using ultrasperse, my understanding was that it was more effective in cool temperature mixes like pbear said above; I haven't seen anything on its other properties.