La Vecchia Napoli

[Jason Perlow]

This is a romantic little upscale southern Italian on River Road, just down the street from Kinara and close to the National Amusements Multiplex. We'd been there a few times 2 or 3 years ago but hadn't been in a while -- we were always impressed by the quality of their seafood (fresh fish of the day is very good, according to Rachel) and I liked their pasta dishes.

We went there on friday night for a leisurely dinner prior to going out to see Star Trek at the Multiplex. It started out good:

1) Rachel had a stuffed squid appetizer, she loved it, I didnt try it cause I wasnt in the mood for squid.

2) I had a mixed sauteed wild mushroom appetizer with garlic. This really hit the spot and went great with the warm crusty fresh italian bread.

I made the mistake of ordering the $18 pasta special, called "Black on Black". This was billed as "squid ink pasta, with black trumpet mushrooms and lobster in a light tomato sauce." What I got was black spaghetti (that much was accurate), with salty MANILLA CLAMS, finely chopped unidentifyable mushrooms, a very salty thin tomato sauce that was likely salt amplified by the manilla clams and NO LOBSTER. I repeat NO LOBSTER.

When I brought this to the attention of the Maitre'd he told me in broken english that the dish didnt have peices of lobster in it, and tried to convince me that I was expecting too much, even though it was billed as a primary ingredient and no clams were mentioned on the specials card. I should have sent it back, but I felt uncomfortable (I never send stuff back for fear of body fluid retribution from the kitchen staff in some nasty way on my meal) so I ate it.

My opinion on this is if you are going to charge $18.95 for a pasta dish and say theres gonna be lobster in it, there had BETTER FUCKING BE lobster in it, excuse my French. Now maybe lobster shells were used in the broth for the sauce, but I sure as hell didnt see any peices of lobster in this dish. If it was billed as manilla clams with black sphagetti and chopped black mushrooms I likely would not have ordered the dish.

Rachel had her fresh fish of the day, said it was very fresh and very good.

Despite the quality of the other food we have had there in the past, I'm now permanently down on this place for pulling a fast one on me. Anyone else want to convince me otherwise? I'm pissed.

[Rosie]

You have every right to be angry. I wonder if the "truth in advertising" law applies to menu descsriptions. If you call the consumer affairs department let us know what they tell you.

[Hank]

This is a restaurant that has been around for quite a while and we always question that with a big why and how. Do most people who go to such restaurants truly no nothing about good Italian cooking. Jason, you said in your post upscale. Sorry my friend but this definitely is not upscale. We went once and the second time by invitation and eah time found the food to be mediocre, the service though friendly very amateurish and nothing on the menu that could be called innovative or interesting, even by a long shot. Very ordinary and not cheap. I keep saying this and I know that I rub some people on this forum the wrong way for saying it but if you live in this part of Bergen County and want good italian food go across the bridge. A few minutes longer drive and you pay for parking but at least you get a bang and wonderful pasta for your buck.

[201]

...Jason, you said in your post upscale. Sorry my friend but this definitely is not upscale. We went once and the second time by invitation and eah time found the food to be mediocre, the service though friendly very amateurish and nothing on the menu that could be called innovative or interesting, even by a long shot. Very ordinary and not cheap...

Hank - I haven't been to this establishment myself, but "upscale" generally refers to the atmosphere and pricing moreso than the food. Meaning, it's supposed to attract the wealthier set of diners. Of course, an upscale restaurant can be quite mediocre on the food front and still be referred to as upscale.

edit: typo

Edited December 15, 2002 by 201 (log)

[ngatti]

I keep saying this and I know that I rub some people on this forum the wrong way for saying it but if you live in this part of Bergen County and want good italian food go across the bridge. A few minutes longer drive and you pay for parking but at least you get a bang and wonderful pasta for your buck.

What he said, in spades!

Nick

[tommy]

I keep saying this and I know that I rub some people on this forum the wrong way for saying it but if you live in this part of Bergen County and want good italian food go across the bridge. A few minutes longer drive and you pay for parking but at least you get a bang and wonderful pasta for your buck.

What he said, in spades!

Nick

some people just don't want to drive into the city. it's clear that some do. some want to find something good close to home. so want keep on rehashing this?

[ngatti]

Key word, of course, being... *good*.

edit: This part of Bergen County being much closer to NYC than others.

Nick

Edited December 15, 2002 by ngatti (log)

[Jason Perlow]

Well, I -WOULD- go across the bridge (my preference would have been Robertos in the Bronx, that definitely qualifies as Upscale) but we had a movie to see.

If it werent for this particular incident I would actually say the food was very good there. But what they did in my mind was price gouging and bait and switch of the worst kind.

[tommy]

Key word, of course, being... *good*.

edit:  This part of Bergen County being much closer to NYC than others.

there are some "good" places in bergen county. and there are a whole buncha shit places in NYC. for convenience, some people settle for slightly less. i spend 15 hours a week going to and from the city. adding another hour or 2 to that is low on my list of priorities on the weekend.

again, just because you can't understand people's motives doesn't make them wrong.

ediot: speeling.

Edited December 15, 2002 by tommy (log)

[ngatti]

Oh I hear you jason. I'm very skeptical of so much that passes itself off as Italian out here. After three or four mediocre meals in a row in different (so-called) "upscale Italian" restaurants in differnt towns, I just don't eat in them.

Not that should have to drive into NYC to get good food (Italian or otherwise). It's just that it seems Bergen county, from one end to the other, is dotted with a certain type of Italian restaurant all fraught with the same degree of ordinariness.

I think it's the easist type of cooking to do well and the easiest to screw up. Whether you get one or the other can be a crapshoot.

edit: "again, just because you can't understand people's motives doesn't make them wrong."

Tommy:

Please explain "again"??

Nobody mentioned right or wrong here. I agree with Hank that the River Road strip of ordinary italian restaurants is just that (ordinary). I also agree with him (heartily and "in spades") that *I* also would be more inclined to drive 15 minutes further on and eat better Italian food in NYC.

People have many motives for many things. Some I understand and some I don't. The only thing concrete is that assuming that I think them *wrong* is presumptuous.

cheers

Nick

Edited December 15, 2002 by ngatti (log)

[tommy]

edit:  Tommy???

yes dear?

actually, as far as italian specifically, there is practically nothing in bergen. i suppose for *that* i'd go to the city.

Edited December 15, 2002 by tommy (log)

[Jason Perlow]

Oh I hear you jason.  I'm very skeptical of so much that passes itself off as Italian out here.  After three or four mediocre meals in a row in different (so-called) "upscale Italian" restaurants in differnt towns, I just don't eat in them.

Not that should have to drive into NYC to get good food (Italian or otherwise).  It's just that it seems Bergen county, from one end to the other, is dotted with a certain type of Italian restaurant all fraught with the same degree of ordinariness.

I think it's the easist type of cooking to do well and the easiest to screw up.  Whether you get one or the other can be a crapshoot.

edit:  Tommy???

cheers

Nick

Believe it or not, we recently had a meal at Caruso's Tuscan Grill in Paramus (RT 17) and it was surprisingly good. I was skeptical because it LOOKED like a chain (it is now in the same huge commercial spot that a chain mexican place was in, Jose Tejas) but in acutality it is only one of two restaurants owned by the restaurant group in question, the other being another upscale Italian place in manhattan. Pasta dishes were actually quite good and decent value.

[ngatti]

edit:  Tommy???

yes dear?

actually, as far as italian specifically, there is practically nothing in bergen. i suppose for *that* i'd go to the city.

okay, a bad oyster. I understand.

Nick

[tommy]

Believe it or not, we recently had a meal at Caruso's Tuscan Grill in Paramus (RT 17) and it was surprisingly good. I was skeptical because it LOOKED like a chain (it is now in the same huge commercial spot that a chain mexican place was in, Jose Tejas) but in acutality it is only one of two restaurants owned by the restaurant group in question, the other being another upscale Italian place in manhattan. Pasta dishes were actually quite good and decent value.

you're joking, right? for real? what NYC restaurant do they own? candela? how's the wine list?

Edited December 15, 2002 by tommy (log)

[Jason Perlow]

Believe it or not, we recently had a meal at Caruso's Tuscan Grill in Paramus (RT 17) and it was surprisingly good. I was skeptical because it LOOKED like a chain (it is now in the same huge commercial spot that a chain mexican place was in, Jose Tejas) but in acutality it is only one of two restaurants owned by the restaurant group in question, the other being another upscale Italian place in manhattan. Pasta dishes were actually quite good and decent value.

you're joking, right? for real? what NYC restaurant do they own? candela? how's the wine list?

I'm not joking. Beleive me, I didnt want to walk into the place but we were hungry and were in the area -- and I wanted to go in for eGullet research purposes. Yes, they own Candela.

Wine list appeared reasonable and they had some good stuff on it, but I dont recall.

I had a fettuchine bolognese, it was quite good. Rachel had an angel hair primavera and it was one of the best versions we've ever had.

[201]

RE: Caruso's

I'm glad that someone had a good experience at Caruso's. My own experience there was enough to dissuade me from going back. Granted, it was a long time ago, but the service seemed to be a little condescending (such as overly emphasizing the prices while reciting the specials as if to say "Hey guy, are you sure you have the money for this?") and the food was pretty forgettable. Actually, the only entree I remember (out of the four at the table) was a steak ordered medium and coming out charred to a crisp on the outside and extremely rare on the inside (I believe that's black-and-blue rather than medium, right?).

The other aspect that I thought was amusing was how the waiter made a big deal of how large the portions are, but of course, my friends and I all left the restaurant still hungry. I'm sure that others have had much better meals there, but I guess we caught them on a night when they were particularly "off".

[tommy]

yes, black and "bleu". fancy french word. which, of course, is not "medium."

perhaps they do pastas better than meats?

[201]

yes, black and "bleu".  fancy french word.  which, of course, is not "medium."

perhaps they do pastas better than meats? 

After reading Jason's post, I'd say that's a good assumption.

[Hank]

First, allow me to explain myself. By upscale I was referring to the food served and not to the decor or the price of the meal.

Secondly, Tommy, you got it quite right. There just are very few decent Italian restaurants in Bergen County that come even close to the food I can get in NY, as per Babbo, Le Madri, Oesteria Fiamma, and Lupa just to name a few of my favorites.

Third. Jaoson, sorry to pick on you today but Caruso's is absolutely no different or better than any other pseudo Italian restaurant in B.C. My long standing question is why we can't get an "upscale" NY style restaurant in this area. And please don't say its the money because there is plenty of it around in Englewood Cliffs, Tenafly, Alpine, Cresskill and etc.,etc. to support restaurants that serve authentic food, Italian or otherwise.

Fourth, If anyone goes to a restaurant just to put food in their belly, well that's great and nothing wrong with it, and please, enjoy yourself. But there are also lots of people out there who want to go to restaurants for fine, innovative and serious dining and wine and B.C. offers very little of that. I won't say that there are none but there are far too so many that are mediocrity itself.

[Jason Perlow]

yes, black and "bleu".  fancy french word.  which, of course, is not "medium."

perhaps they do pastas better than meats?  

After reading Jason's post, I'd say that's a good assumption.

We didn't try the steak, obviously.

[Rachel Perlow]

I agree that there are very few and far between Italian restaurants of the NYC caliber Hank mentions in NJ. However, most of the time, driving into the city is not something we consider when it is just the two of us and we are planning other events for the evening. As for La Vecchia Napoli, I almost always get the fish, because they prepare it whole on the bone and filet it tableside. It's a gimmick, but I like it. I also like the way fish prepared this way tastes. I wouldn't consider the restaurant "upscale" but it has a romantic atmosphere. Such, that I recently recommended it to someone (not particularly a "foodie") as a good place to take a date.

Hank (and anyone else who has been there), I am curious as to your opinion of Ciao Bella Trattoria in Cresskill. I've heard good things about it and it is always busy, but we've never been.

[Hank]

Rachel, your question and comment about Ciao Bella is exactly what bothers me so much about B.C. restaurants. This restaurant is very successful because it caters to people who just want to take the family for what they think is Italian food and mom gets the night off from the kitchen. Great. The restaurants formula is very simple. Serve a couple of different pastas,pizza, some veal and chicken, and most important of all, give the restaurant an Italian name. Boom.

Some people have told you it is quite good. Well, I'll bet them anything they want that they will not find (besides possibly management) a single person who is either Italian or has trained in a good Italian restaurant in that kitchen. (I go there with my grandchildren for Pizza and they ain't talking Italian.)Throw some spaghetti in a pot, boil, open up a can of tomato sauce and charge $12/15 and you're serving Italian food. Sheee. We do it at home for a hell of a lot less and we make our own sauce.

On a lighter note Rachel, my wife and I have just finished making a huge pot of pasta fagioli soupa. (Honest, cross my heart). Tomorrow I go to Balthazar in Englewood for some of their fabulous country rye bread, open up a bottle of Barolo and make beleive we are in Italy. Sorry. No checkered table cloth.

[tommy]

On a lighter note Rachel, my wife and I have just finished making a huge pot of pasta fagioli soupa. (Honest, cross my heart). Tomorrow I go to Balthazar in Englewood for some of their fabulous country rye bread, open up a bottle of Barolo and make beleive we are in Italy. Sorry. No checkered table cloth.

what time shall be over?

[Hank]

Any time after 6:00 Tommy and I'll even open two bottles. By the way I can't believe that I mis-spelled believe in my previous post.

[tommy]

Any time after 6:00 Tommy and I'll even open two bottles. By the way I can't believe that I mis-spelled believe in my previous post.

and i'll bring another.

and for what it's worth, i've been more amazed at some of the correctly spelled things that you've said.

i went to Caruso's Grill tonite. and i shall post my thoughts. it was, um, pretty good! for Rt 4 in NJ that is.