Innovation

[Nick]

And no, you did not wander off... you got it right.

There is a huge distinction between what you suggest here and what is loosely understood and innovative and inventive cooking.  It is often given a home even before it has a body.  Does it have a soul?

Thanks. I looked at what I'd written and thought maybe I was fantasizing.

" It is often given a home even before it has a body." Excellent. I hadn't thought of it that way.

By "soul" I meant in the cook. Maybe rather than innovation and inventiveness we should be talking about imagination, inspiration, and intuition.

[Suvir Saran]

And for giving us that feedback, I would pick their tab that night.

Suvir, if you ever think of hiring a full-time taster, I'd be prepared to consider moving to NYC.

John, my cookbook has almost come to completion and my co-writer Stephani Lyness pretty much played t he role of a full time taster and also cop. She stood and watched me make every recipe that has been written for the book. Tested it with me and wrote down every little detail that went into preparing each dish. I gained a lot by having her join me in my venture.

Maybe if my first book is successful and worthy, I will write another.. and I would love to have your valuable tastebuds. I am not sure I could compensate one like you adequately, but I can fantasize about it.

[Suvir Saran]

" It is often given a home even before it has a body." Excellent. I hadn't thought of it that way.

By "soul" I meant in the cook. Maybe rather than innovation and inventiveness we should be talking about imagination, inspiration, and intuition.

Well to me food that is being tested and worked on cannot be served to a customer that is paying for it. That is my humble opinion. And certainly I may be totally wrong. I practice this even at home. I never serve food I am inventing and playing around with to friends I invite for a meal at my home. But if a certain friend was invited only to partake in my exercise with cooking, that is fine.

When I say home and body, I call a dish with at least a minimal magic a body. And a plate that bodies home. I have seen far too many plates filled with food that was not worthy of even a dustbin. But the chef that created it could not understand how their learning experience should not always be shared with people that are traveling great distances for a certain experience. If I wanted mediocre and unknown food, I would not go to a restaurant that I have found through a review done on them. But if I go to a place by chance, I have no expectations and I am fed bad food or great food, I am more forgiving. But expecting at the very least something wonderful, I look for that. And when I am served a mere apology in the way of fusion, inventive and innovative, I see through it and realize that the chef really does not respect themselves or the diner that is paying dearly for their meal. It is insulting to me and more importantly, very telling about the chef. It is that food that has no body and thus does not need a home (plate). It needs more imagination, intuition and inspiration. And certainly with time, it can have all of that.

Timing is everything. And yet time is what we often forget. In being the owners of everything we do and live around, we often forget that time cannot be owned. It exists in its own right, just as each of our creations and us. But to make either one of these seem brilliant, a partnership is necessary between all of them.

For a perfect meal that is at once innovative, inspirational and imaginative, one would also need to be indulging in it at the right time. When it is just mature enough to be in its youth and full of vigor. Fresh but not premature. Strong and stable and yet not half in the grave. All things wonderful have a long life to live. But many creators forget that if one is developing something one hopes to see as a success, one also has to understand having a vision that will last. And a lasting vision is worth investing in. There is no need to rush its launching.

I think I may have lost you... so I will stop.

I cherish and respect innovation, imagination, inspiration and the new. When one does not have these, one might as well not live. And yet, I have little patience to romance those apologies that one often has to face in the name of these very valuable and intrinsic realities of life.

[Nick]

I think I may have lost you... so I will stop.

Not completely, but I'm happy that you've stopped. Kind of like pushing my way through a tall field of corn trying to follow the one who knows the corn field. ?

But, now that you've stopped and I've sort of caught up, maybe you could explain, " And yet, I have little patience to romance those apologies that one often has to face in the name of these very valuable and intrinsic realities of life." ?

[Suvir Saran]

But, now that you've stopped and I've sort of caught up, maybe you could explain, " And yet, I have little patience to romance those apologies that one often has to face in the name of these very valuable and intrinsic realities of life."  ?

This thread may help answer some of what I meant.

[Suvir Saran]

But, now that you've stopped and I've sort of caught up, maybe you could explain, " And yet, I have little patience to romance those apologies that one often has to face in the name of these very valuable and intrinsic realities of life."  ?

QUOTE (Simon Majumdar @ Sep 30 2002, 11:21 AM)

"I think there is a big difference between those who are excellent because they constantly look to improve and never accept that they should stand still and those who use innovation as a front to their own lack of talent."

Simon was far more eloquent and erudite in saying what I also meant above.

Does my sentence make more sense now?

[Suvir Saran]

I cherish and respect innovation, imagination, inspiration and the new.  When one does not have these, one might as well not live.  And yet, I have little patience to romance those apologies that one often has to face in the name of these very valuable and intrinsic realities of life.

I respect and admire chefs that are always learning, creating, innovating, experimenting and imagining newer ideas and possibilities. Theirs are lives I want to follow and understand.

But the chefs that use those above qualities as mere facades for gaining attention and yet have little substance cannot fool me and unfortunately for them, as also for me (for I am so jaded), I have little patience to try and find meaning in what lacks even skin-deep elegance or substance.

Shall I stop before I lose you (or myself) again?

[Suvir Saran]

In the thread on excellence in the cooking forum, link given by me above, I found yet another great example that would work in this discussion. I am sorry I am borrowing from these others to make my point. But they are saying what I would like to with such perfect erudition that I would be a fool to ignore them.

QUOTE (Varmint @ Sep 30 2002, 01:39 PM)

"Innovation that doesn't work, however, is the worst. I think culinary innovation should be evolutionary, not revolutionary. When someone tries to turn the gastronomic world upside down, it usually is too far gone for me. It must, after all, taste good."

[Nick]

But, now that you've stopped and I've sort of caught up, maybe you could explain, " And yet, I have little patience to romance those apologies that one often has to face in the name of these very valuable and intrinsic realities of life."  ?

This thread may help answer some of what I meant.

I am too dense. I didn't find the answer there and have only come up with another question.

You say, "A good artist is a natural at changing and adapting with situations and times. They are not bound by the limitations of the diner.

Does that mean you are only cooking for yourself? Many years ago I was a fairly good guitar player and there was a point where my ego overcame me and I played more for myself than those who came to listen and dance. It was almost always well received, but I look back at that now and bow my head with the thought of having such an attitude.

And then... you have to please yourself before you can please others. It's a difficult situation when you are trying to gain humility.

[Suvir Saran]

But, now that you've stopped and I've sort of caught up, maybe you could explain, " And yet, I have little patience to romance those apologies that one often has to face in the name of these very valuable and intrinsic realities of life."  ?

This thread may help answer some of what I meant.

I am too dense. I didn't find the answer there and have only come up with another question.

You say, "A good artist is a natural at changing and adapting with situations and times. They are not bound by the limitations of the diner.

Does that mean you are only cooking for yourself? Many years ago I was a fairly good guitar player and there was a point where my ego overcame me and I played more for myself than those who came to listen and dance. It was almost always well received, but I look back at that now and bow my head with the thought of having such an attitude.

And then... you have to please yourself before you can please others. It's a difficult situation when you are trying to gain humility.

The diner comes into a restaurant with expectations. The chef does not have that burden. A good chef must give the diner what they expect.. And to that add more. If a chef really wants to share something new and wonderful, the chef must give the very minimal that a diner may want from them... or what they have come to know about that particular chef... and if the chef has been creating something new, the chef certainly can add more courses at the restaurants expense to share with the diner what they are doing.

This should happen until that time when this chef is recognized by diners and reviewers as having now moved on into another phase of their artistic career... and so, the diners will then come to this artist’s home with new expectations.

And a chef (the artist in this case) has the place of power in a restaurant. The diner comes with expectations, desire, and yearning, for status or whatever... It is the chef’s call to send the diner back home having experienced what they came for. Sum chefs can only deliver what one expects of them. And they certainly deliver it well. Others under-deliver and some exceed even the very high expectations of their diner. So, the key to a chef’s success and talent and magic is placed in the chef’s own hand.

I am not suggesting that the diner is not important, all I am suggesting is that the diner is there... and for a reason, the chef now has to show their own wizardry by giving the diner everything they expect and want and perhaps even more.

[Suvir Saran]

And then... you have to please yourself before you can please others. It's a difficult situation when you are trying to gain humility.

I was not even suggesting that the artist has to please themselves or their patron. I was referring to an artist knowing themselves and the power vested in their art and their ability to influence themselves and others by it.

[Nick]

And a chef (the artist in this case) has the place of power in a restaurant.  

Suvir - please don't take offense at this. It is about all those "in power" whether in the kitchen or not.

"Power especially proves itself to itself by the singular abuse of itself which consists in crowning some absurdity with the laurels of success...... " Balzac.

I've been to your website and looked at your menu. If I ever get to New York and can wriggle my way into some event you're catering I'd like to have some of your cooking.

[Suvir Saran]

Many years ago I was a fairly good guitar player and there was a point where my ego overcame me and I played more for myself than those who came to listen and dance. It was almost always well received, but I look back at that now and bow my head with the thought of having such an attitude.

And then... you have to please yourself before you can please others. It's a difficult situation when you are trying to gain humility.

I was a singer and I performed on stage, on the radio and television in India as a young teen. I also competed in inter-school and inter-state music and recitation competitions. I also gave my Visharad exam (Classical Indian Music equivalent of a Bachelors degree in Music) and began my Alankar (masters), and through all of this I realized that I had to first learn music and understand it for myself. If I could not do that basic, I would never be able to make any worthy impact as a singer in my own right.

When I sang in public settings, when I competed or when I was graded, I always sang as best as I could, to make my own sensibilities proud and also to feel I had done my art proud. I would sing imagining that maybe the singers that I admired would be listening to me and I always thought of what they would think of how I respected this art we each practiced. I sang from my soul, I sang to please my soul and I sang for I wanted to excel in the art I loved as much as I loved my live and my involvement in all things artistic and wonderful.

I was lucky to win many accolades, I was lucky to have been found and at times given my few minutes of fame. But above all, I slept happily and sang happily for I did it with complete devotion to my art. If I was only interested in giving the audience what they wanted to hear, the examiners what they wanted to judge my talent by and myself a temporary high, I would not have given my art several hours daily and a dozen very young years. Whist my peer went to dance parties, discos and night-clubs, I would be in my room reading books on the history of music, chatting with my grandmother (a great singer herself) about the experiences she had had... and practicing my art for the sake of making myself better. It was not done for an audience. The audience just happened to be there. Of course, when I was being paid to perform a certain piece, I would deliver what was expected. But it was also up to me to make it even better than what the party paying expected. It could not be different, it could not be a mere joke in the name of innovation, it had to be an evolutionary step in the direction that would least affect people in the wrong way, but could haunt them as a slight change that ultimately was pleasing.

My examiner for the Visharad exam gave me a 94% score. It made most of my fellow students hate me instantly. What made it worse was that I was least interested in the score. He told my mother who was waiting (she was somewhat nervous for all other students, including my sister who was giving the same exam had already come out) to pick me up that he had never met a young singer who was so carefree and without any fear. He told my mother that with my eyes closed and in love with my art, I gave the three examiners every answer they expected of a student and without ever having to ask me for them. Since the exam is planned without a time limit, in my first piece, I sang for an hour and 20 minutes, over an hour more than all other students. And h said in that one piece, I gave them a sampling of all the techniques they were looking for. The next few pieces they asked for me to sing he said were for their selfish pleasure.

I feel I was lucky that I was examined and graded by a threesome that was very generous. Also I was lucky that they were not looking at a clock. I was wrong to have sung that long.. But with my eyes closed.. and lost in time and art, I had forgotten everything else. I had forgotten that the show was theirs to control and yet I gave them a show that impressed them for it was deeper than a mere exam.

I have dined in restaurants where chefs that want to share with me their new dalliances will add course after course to what I have ordered simply to share with me their proud new innovations. But in doing so, they gave me what I came looking for and then added so much more to my experience. If they had only given me what they thought I eat, and if it did not meet my liking, I would have much greater trouble in forgiving them. But a clever chef will do what I describe and make converts out of his diners. A much smarter thing to do.

My point is that it is not egotistical to spend time by oneself in the furthering of ones art. And it only becomes so much more poignant when that art is one that others indulge in and find happiness in. We owe it to ourselves and those that rely on us for inspiration to spend time with our art, our thoughts and our talent to first make them find a home in our minds, then a design that works in the structure of our own home (mind and taste in this case) and finally share them with those that can partake in our offerings.

[Suvir Saran]

And a chef (the artist in this case) has the place of power in a restaurant.  

Suvir - please don't take offense at this. It is about all those "in power" whether in the kitchen or not.

"Power especially proves itself to itself by the singular abuse of itself which consists in crowning some absurdity with the laurels of success...... " Balzac.

Power over ones actions is most important. Power over the actions of others is not.

One without power or control over what they do, may never be able to share much meaningful stuff with anyone. For they are most often a mess.

And yet I am amazed at the beautiful Balzac quote you share. It is beautiful and POWERFUL and will remain with me for a long time. Thanks for sharing it.

And yes, we have to many stories of success in this world that have little merit but were brought to that mantle by their association with power or some sort.

[Suvir Saran]

I've been to your website and looked at your menu. If I ever get to New York and can wriggle my way into some event you're catering I'd like to have some of your cooking.

Do contact me when coming to NYC... We can plan something so that you can break bread with me.

[Nick]

I was wrong to have sung that long.. But with my eyes closed.. and lost in time and art, I had forgotten everything else.

Beautiful writing. When I was "into it" I also played with my eyes closed. Better to hear all of us that were playing. And I'd take a "solo" on my guitar and take things so far from the idea of the song that I'd wonder how to find my way back. Lost in time and art. But, in my best years Michael, the bass player, would be there to guide me home.

[Simon Majumdar]

Michael, I am not going to claim to know the minutae of the chefs you describe but it seems to me that in cooking as in so many things it is ego that is at the very heart of what we do.

Ones ego can drive one on to achieve but it can also limit one from achieving more.

In all arts and in this case I will take cooking as an art ( one or more people creating for the enjoyment of others ) it is important to know and master the basic building blocks of that art before one can go on and extemporise, so if you look at Picasso's early work they show a technical proficiency but are derivative. Once however, he had mastered technique he was able to fly beyond the realms of other artists.

The same in literature. Without his knowledge of the basic rules of form and technique, Shaw could not have "created "new language nor Joyce deconstructed what he had been taught.

In cooking, the true innovators are those who really know the basics but are not prepared to be limited by it. Others use innovation to cover up their lack of basic proficiency. A classic example for me would be my meal at Tabla in NY. The use of Indian spices was crass and obvious. The chef had not learned the basics of Indian cookery to a sufficient level to play around with them as he did leaving me disatisfied and with a bad taste in the mouth.

The problem is that many of the immitators are getting more attention and more money than the innovators.

It was ever thus

S

[stellabella]

LML, pardon me for going down the wrong road, if that is what I am doing:

Take deviled eggs [or not, but hear me out]. I make them at the tiny sandwich shop where I work; we sell them 3 for a dollar. What could be easier? I put the yolks in the food processor with mayo and some sweet pickle relish, from which I've squeezed as much moisture as possible, Lawry's salt. Then I stuff the contents into the Pampered Chef pastry tool and fill the whites. Viola.

Now, if you don't like deviled eggs, or if you think they are utterly heathenish food, fine. But lots of people love them; take them to a cook out and you will never bring home leftovers. And deviled egg lovers swap recipes like crazy. Everyone has a secret. Everyone knows how to make them the best. But the ones I make are the best and they are simple. And I didn't make up a special technique.

In my own kitchen I always want to try something new, but I increasingly find myself wanting to to turn out solidly, dependably good food, simple or not, fussy or not, unique or not, doesn't matter.

Innovation has its place, but sometimes the person behind the stove could do just as well or better sticking to the basic recipe.

[Nick]

Innovation has its place, but sometimes the person behind the stove could do just as well or better sticking to the basic recipe.

I was working up to that as this has gone along. You beat me to it.

There is no point in taking off on the flight of innovation unless there's a good reason. Where are you planning to land at the end of the flight?

This is a good thread. It's got me to thinking.

[Suvir Saran]

This is a good thread. It's got me to thinking.

and me too!