Sanitary Conditions

[ngatti]

If you suspect a restaurant may be unsanitary, then you should do what I do: bring your own meal. Be prepared, of course, to be charged a "fork fee".

Even better: bring your own cockroach. You won't get charged at all.

And don't think it doesn't happen.

Nick

[Rosie]

I have taken the following explanation from the Bergen Record Health Violations page.

"The ratings explained: Conditional - first violation of the state Sanitary Code. Conditional on reinspection -

second violation. Satisfactory on reinspection - violation repaired. Unsatisfactory — gross violations that are an imminent threat to public health. An unsatisfactory establishment should be shut down either voluntarily or

through a court order. "

[ngatti]

I see Mahrahni Express is going for the: "most conditional health write ups within a single calander year." Trying to catch up with Bamboo Grill, no doubt.

Nick

[ngatti]

Why post "CONDITIONAL" ratings that over 1 year old. Especially those that have been reinspected successfully and are now walking the straight and narrow.

GRATUITOUS AND IRRESPONSIBLE JOURNALISM

edit:(directed towards that CBS site)

Nick

[dodge621]

[Why post "CONDITIONAL" ratings that over 1 year old. ]

Nick, is it not important to see a trend? For example, if I see a place has 1 conditional violation and no other violaitons then to me this is not nearly as bad as a place such as Baumgart's Cafe that receives a conditonal rating every few months. For me, I would rather see something even if it is over a year old so I can see if the conditional violation is a 1 time thing or if there is a consistent trend here.

[dodge621]

[GRATUITOUS AND IRRESPONSIBLE JOURNALISM]

Nick, nothing irresponsible here. To not include some conditional violations and not inform the public just because they are over a year old on the other hand would be very arbitrary. But my question is since they did include several restaurants, why not expand the list even more.

[John Whiting]

Here's a pertinent article by Andrew Smith which was published last year in Newsday. Andy owns the coryright and has given me carte blanche to distribute it.

#####################################

Newsday. June 17 2001

SHOULD WE GRADE RESTAURANTS?

Despite concerns, scoring systems have been a great success.

Andrew F. Smith.

LONG Islanders were rudely awakened to the seriousness of food-borne illness when a recent outbreak of shigellosis - a gastrointestinal disease accompanied by fever, convulsions and bloody diarrhea - sickened 95 people. Of those lab-confirmed cases, 15 are restaurant employees. Almost 856 more contacted the Nassau County Department of Health to report feeling ill.

The source of the eruption has been traced to the Shish-Kebab restaurant chain. Although the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating - a report is not due for several months - the most likely cause seems to be an employee who failed to wash his or her hands after using the bathroom. (Attorney Dominic Barbara, who represents the owner of the Mediterranean food chain, maintains that the infected food came from a supplier.)

This incident is only one of many food poisonings that have seized public attention nationwide. In fact, these publicized outbreaks are only the tip of the foodborne-illness iceberg. According to the federal government, gastrointestinal illnesses struck 76 million Americans last year. Of the 325,000 who were hospitalized, some 5,000 died.

The crisis is rapidly getting worse, doubling in the last five years. The reason for the rise is complex. Part of it is that we don't always know where the food is coming from. Another problem is that many restaurants are hiring untrained workers from other countries who may not have the same sensitivity or awareness of sanitation. In the meantime, more people today are eating out than the ever before while the food industry is looking to slash the bottom line.

Unfortunately most Americans are unaware of the rise in food poisoning, and many who suffer from it never find out the cause. Symptoms may take a week or longer to appear, and victims frequently attribute the distress and discomfort incorrectly to the stomach flu. It is not until the affliction becomes acute that tests are taken to determine the real cause. For those at risk - children, the elderly and anyone with a compromised immune system – this is often too late. The consequences can be deadly.

The good news is that many cases of food-borne illness can be prevented by following proper sanitation. Public health authorities in the Los Angeles County Health Department took a close look at this growing national problem and, in January, 1998, instituted a grading system that rates the sanitation of restaurants, food stands, mobile-food units and other retailers. Inspectors assign a numerical score with corresponding letter grades of "A," "B" or "C" to each restaurant reflecting the health conditions found within.

Grades must be prominently posted near the public entrance at all times. Customers can view the ratings and decide for themselves whether to patronize the establishment. In addition, the ratings are posted on a Web site so consumers can review eating establishments before heading out for a meal. Under the previous system, restaurant managers would simply wait to be cited for violations and only then correct them. When retailers had repeated citations, most customers were not even aware of these continuing health problems.

Under the new system, managers have become much more sensitive to food safety. They've also become much more proactive in eliminating unsafe conditions. Since the system went into effect, food poisoning complaints have declined from 2,050 to 1,603 in just two years. Many factors probably contributed, but the grading system is undoubtedly one of them.

The Los Angeles program is not unique. It was based on a system that has successfully operated in San Diego County for the past 50 years. More recently, similar systems have been implemented in other communities. The South Carolina Department of Health and Environmental Control, for instance, inspects restaurants, hot-dog stands and other food retailers in the state, grading them based on a numerical system of one to 100.

Disgust with sanitary conditions in Toronto restaurants led a Canadian investigative reporter to produce a series of "Dirty Dining" articles in the Toronto Star. As a result of his exposés, Toronto health officials cited 53 of the 74 downtown restaurants. One was shut down until the problem was resolved: it was infested with mice. In the end, all were required to display their red, yellow and green ratings in the window for all would-be patrons to see.

Despite the apparent success of these grading programs, concerns have been raised. Food-service managers have accurately pointed out that many restaurants operate in fluid environments. Conditions can change from hour to hour, according to the flow of people in the restaurant and the shifts, and it is unfair to take a snapshot at a particular moment and use it to stigmatize the food establishment for months. The Los Angeles grading system has addressed this by permitting restaurants to request a reinspection if they believe the previous inspection did not accurately reflect overall conditions. The reinspection is carried out unannounced within six weeks, and the restaurant is stuck with this assessment until the next regular inspection.

Food-safety professionals correctly point out that contamination can occur at many points along the way in the food-production system, from the farm to the fork. They fear that concentrating attention on one possible source will decrease interest in the others. Indeed, focusing only on food retailers will not prevent all food-borne illnesses.

But awareness of food safety at any point in the system is better than none at all. Grading has made food retailers more sensitive to potential dangers and more open to taking preventive measures to avoid them. All this is an improvement over the current system in place on Long Island and most communities across the United States.

When grading is combined with frequent inspections and improved training programs, food-borne illnesses can be curtailed. All communities should institute grading systems to ensure the best possible food safety. Perhaps if such a system had been instituted on Long Island a few years back, the recent shigellosis outbreak would never have happened. After all, the Shish-Kebab in Port Washington had been cited for violating health codes four out of the 10 times Nassau County sanitarians inspected the restaurant over the past five years. One code that was broken - failing to wear gloves while handling food.

_______________________

Andrew F. Smith teaches culinary history at the New School University and is the author of eight books on culinary topics. His most recent book is "Souper Tomatoes: The Story of America's Favorite Soup."

[tommy]

i don't know if it's "irresponsible," but it's certainly sensationalistic. people who are into eating out don't care about this nonsense. unless there is a clear offense, it's pretty much a bunch of nonsense.

[dodge621]

[it's pretty much a bunch of nonsense. ]

nonsense to you Tommy yes. But to myself, John whiting and the writer of the article it is apparently not nonsense.

[TCD]

[it's pretty much a bunch of nonsense. ]

nonsense to you Tommy yes. But to myself, John whiting and the writer of the article it is apparently not nonsense.

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

[tommy]

[it's pretty much a bunch of nonsense. ]

nonsense to you Tommy yes. But to myself, John whiting and the writer of the article it is apparently not nonsense.

"unless there is a clear offense."

mice infestation clearly falls into that category. feces on the floor, hell, i'd say that was bad too. something that generally speaking flags a "conditional," probably not a big deal.

the guy who didn't wash his hands after wiping apparently caused 95 people to become sick, well, i'd like to see the "inspector" write up a place for that. i also find that very had to believe.

john whiting hasn't opined on this issue here yet.

i will continue to eat out, and not worry about it.

[dodge621]

[Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. ]

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn - pretty clever

[John Whiting]

Tommy writes:

john whiting hasn't opined on this issue here yet.

I'm of two minds, one as concerns my own choices and another as it relates to public welfare. For myself, I honestly don't particularly care. I have a robust constitution and have rarely been even slightly ill as a result of what I've eaten. But there are people of delicate health who ought to be able to eat in public places without taking their lives in their hands.

[tommy]

But there are people of delicate health who ought to be able to eat in public places without taking their lives in their hands.

what you're suggesting is that there should be guidelines and inspections, and the results should be made public for those who care, no?

the article touches on changing the system a bit, and also training for the employer/employee. i am all for education, and think that it is one of the single most important remedies for society's ills. however, how you can teach a 4 dollar an hour kid who doesn't speak english how to wipe is arse is beyond me. good luck, though. i don't want to see anyone get sick.

[John Whiting]

. . . how you can teach a 4 dollar an hour kid who doesn't speak english how to wipe is arse is beyond me.

We've got a real problem here. There are all sorts of mishaps that used to be regarded as "bad luck" which are now, if you have a good lawyer, actionable. Everybody who deals with the public in a remotely risky capacity wants to cover his butt. Health and safety laws are enacted to reduce the risk. And then the people who enforce them have to cover *their* butts. In the end every butt gets properly sanitized except that of the "4 dollar an hour kid who doesn't speak English".

[gknl]

. . . how you can teach a 4 dollar an hour kid who doesn't speak english how to wipe is arse is beyond me.

We've got a real problem here. There are all sorts of mishaps that used to be regarded as "bad luck" which are now, if you have a good lawyer, actionable. Everybody who deals with the public in a remotely risky capacity wants to cover his butt. Health and safety laws are enacted to reduce the risk. And then the people who enforce them have to cover *their* butts. In the end every butt gets properly sanitized except that of the "4 dollar an hour kid who doesn't speak English".

Actually, I think the problem is teaching him to wash his hands afterwards.

But there was a restaurant in the Bay Area (Redwood City, I think) that had that problem fairly recently. The owners were in Mexico and evidently, didn't train their staff well enough. Several people died and many more were sickened because of atrocious sanitation and food storage and preparation methods. We're lulled into forgetting how dangerous the microbial environment can be. Sure, the individual risk may be low for most of us, but it sure does suck if you're one of the unlucky few who eat the right thing at the wrong time.

[tommy]

gknl, the exceptional situations clearly are horrible (although i don't think any of us would be eating in places like that. some things are just evident when you walk into a place).

[John Whiting]

In La Gavroche, according to Albert Roux, the kitchen was in the cellar. In the early days [how early?] there was a large tin tray at the top of the stairs. Every morning the first cook to arrive would throw the tray down the stairs, wait for the scurrying to stop, and turn on the lights. By then the rats would be gone. The last person to leave the kitchen at night had to be certain that the tray was back in place for the following morning.

[Kerouac1964]

Damn! this thread is a terrifying one for me, personally. I have a weakened immune system from a lengthy battle with a leg infection followed by a near fatal battle with congestive heart failure.

There are many more immuned-weakened people out there. Standards should be improved and put in place. I also think if people die, the parties responsible should do prison time and be banned for life from the food industry.

Yikes !!

[ngatti]

i don't know if it's "irresponsible," but it's certainly sensationalistic.  people who are into eating out don't care about this nonsense.  unless there is a clear offense, it's pretty much a bunch of nonsense.

I'm glad *you* don't care Tommy. Many here may also not give it a second thought.

But many do

My bitch is that the CBS site posts an agreed sensational news piece about a food borne outbreak. They follow it up by listing several restaurants that have *recently* failed (some repeatedly) health inspections. So far so good.

In the end they post a list of restaurants from the Zagat guide; listing their violations, in some cases going back 16 months to find the last conditional. That associates the restaurants almost year and a half old failed inspection (one that was reinspected as a satisfactory) with this sensational news piece. I find it irresponsible and incompetent at *BEST* and callously shameful and gratuitous at worst.

There were some listed that deserved to be (Fulton Crab House), and many had clean "Satisfactory" records, but I state again that including "Conditional" ratings that have since been cleared. Ratings that have since been cleaned up. Restaurants that have, for over a year, had good sanitation records, does needless negative publicity to hard working owners who seem to be doing the right thing with their restaurants. And for What?? Ratings on the fuckin' idiot box. Stupid network ratings at that. Sheesh!

Nick

[tommy]

i don't know if it's "irresponsible," but it's certainly sensationalistic.  people who are into eating out don't care about this nonsense.  unless there is a clear offense, it's pretty much a bunch of nonsense.

I'm glad *you* don't care Tommy. Many here may also not give it a second thought.

But many do

you may have missed my point: the "nonsense" to which i refer is the exploitive and sensationalistic media. i've been around the block enough to have a good feeling if a place is "safe" or "not safe." i choose to eat at places at which i don't get sick, which is evident as i've never gotten sick from eating out.

although, i'm not sure why i care enough about people who sit at home and read these reports to type as many words as i have on the subject. sit your ass at home any worry about the fall of modern society as we know it. i'll be out enjoying sushi and sancerre.

edit: rereading ngatti's post, i see that he's agreeing with me. ok then, all is right in the world, once again.

[gknl]

I agree completely that it is irresponsible at best for the media to report conditional failures without giving equal coverage to subsequent passes. I also think they should give some detail about what the problem(s) were. It would be like the local paper listing all the people who were given traffic or parking tickets under the same heading. Obviously, someone who drives drunk or recklessly isn't the same as someone who didn't have enough change for the parking meter.

Far be it for me to defend the media. But irresponsible and media are almost redundant. The media, especially television, depends on sensationalism to sell their product, and tv news is just another product. Why should they care how many lives they ruin? They're convinced they're doing God's Work, after all. The Food Industry isn't the only one they treat like that though. How many crises, health scares and otherwise, do have we have to deal with on an almost daily basis?

My only point was that someone has to teach the $4 an hour non-English speaking food worker proper hygiene. Someone dying because someone didn't wash his hands is unconscionable.

[tommy]

Someone dying because someone didn't wash his hands is unconscionable.

i don't think you'll find disagreement with that sentiment here.

[ngatti]

John Whiting,

Thanks for posting that most informative piece. I got much out of it. An example of the quality that can attache itself to these sometimes contentious discussions

Nick

[John Whiting]

As a footnote, those who know Andy Smith will be aware that he is a food historian who really loves food in all its manifestations, including the unashamedly plebeian. His histories of the tomato, tomato soup and ketchup are both meticulously researched and a joy to read.