Lucas Carton → Alain Senderens

[Bux]

Marcus -- My French comprehension is miserable, so I may be off base, but it seems as if GaultMillau feels as if the meals at both la Tour d'Argent and Lucas-Carton are almost as good as they ever were. It's just that as good as the food is, it's a bit irrelevant today. Perhaps it's akin to running a found minute mile--a record breaking speed at one time, but not always fast enough to come in first today. Some of us can still get a thrill reading the biography of deal athletes and seeing movies of past record breaking performances. There's a precedent as well for preserving architecutral treasures and even just reminders of our past while continuing to build and develop cities. Shouldn't we be lucky to have these landmarks even if they only draw tourists? I think the problem arises when the quality drops so much that they no longer represent even a true window to their past glory. Admittedly, they may have lost or are losing popularity with both Parisians and gastronomes who have made multiple visits. This may be because they are not developing rather than the quality is gone.

[marcus]

Bux -- I'm not really sure what GM is really saying and it would be interesting to have the interpretation of a native French speaker. GM can be quite elliptical and translating with our school French can often miss their point or even be 180 degrees off. As Cabrales points out, they did use the term pathetique to describe the Tour d'Argent in the recent past, although it is not used in the current website review. I do believe that that review remains quite (justifiably) negative. The Senderens review is harder for me to interpret, but I think that there may be a dig there that we are missing.

[cabrales]

the lobster a la vanille which I was chasing down was the most expensive thing bar the caviar (120 euros the crustacean).  The whole bill was 217 (ish) for three courses and mineral water - which is all I shall say about the money.

Jon -- When you have a chance, please indicate whether you remember the price of the lobster dish with its wine accompaniment (Chassagne Montrachet, Drouhin?). While I appreciate Jon's report, I have the intake of this dish as a short-term food-related target, together with other things.

I'd also be interested in the extent to which the lobster was steamed. The L-C website's French name for the dish does not refer to the method of cooking (Homard de Bretagne à la vanille " Bourbon de Madagascar"), but the English label is Brittany lobster off the shell **steamed** with vanilla sauce "Bourbon de Madagascar".

Also, I'd like to add that I consider Senderens' cuisine at this point to be better than that of certain other three-stars (e.g., Pourcels, Vrinat, Veyrat, G Blanc and particularly Bocuse).

[Bux]

GM can be quite elliptical

They are nowhere near as bad as they were, perhaps when Gault, Millau or both were there. By the time I learned they were mocking a certain dish, I might have already been to the restaurant and ordered precisely that dish on what I had read as their recommendation. The new corporate GM seems almost straight forward by comparison.

As for la Tour d'Argent, perhaps what I should have read is that the food is irrelevant to the Tour d'Argent experience. You buy the experience and get the food as a bonus. It beats having to bring your own boxed lunch.

[cabrales]

P Wells provided a recent review of Lucas-Carton (i.e., subsequent to the change in the menu to list wines first, and food pairings for the wine second).

http://www.patriciawells.com/reviews/iht/iht.htm

Wells notes a dish that I recently enjoyed very much, as part of a meal that was the best I have had at Lucas-Carton yet. The white truffle polenta dish with the described wine (Corton Charlemagne) runs almost 200 euros. The pour was very generous, and I ended up consuming perhaps 3 glasses (for the specified price of the pairing, and not three times it)

"the puddle of creamy polenta laced with white truffles from Italy, a fireworks of smooth textures, intense fragrances, rounded out by the cool Corton Charlemagne 1990 from Domaine Bonneau du Martray, rich with truffle and woodsy essences of its own."

The polenta dish included a little quail egg yolk underneath one of the truffle shavings.

The polenta dish was followed by the lobster with vanilla/vermicelli dish, which I liked very much. The supple vermicelli was appropriate against the "crisp" texture (not in the fried sense, in the natural taste sense) of the Brittany lobster. With all respect to Jon, I wouldn't necessarily characterize the dish as lobster noodle with custard. The vanilla sauce was thinner than custard might imply. Also, the vermicelli in the L-C dish were softer and more appealing than the typical noodle accompanying lobster in an Asian preparation. Not that I wouldn't also like to sample some lobster with noodle at Mandarin Kitchen, but I felt the L-C sampling was worthwhile. The one criticism of the dish is that it was rather vanilla-flavored -- too much so by a small margin for my taste.

Edited December 3, 2002 by cabrales (log)

[cabrales]

Senderens has gone all-out. Even the aperatifs are associated with indicative amuses-bouches that are deemed to best accompany them.

http://www.lucascarton.com/amuse-bouche-us.htm

[Robert Schonfeld]

Deleted duplicate post

Edited December 9, 2002 by Robert Schonfeld (log)

[Robert Schonfeld]

The most disconcerting part of Jon Tseng's report is the fact that he was served a less desirable slice from the foie gras than a French diner was served. That this happens all the time, eg, that it's nothing new, only makes it worse.

I've also stated my feeling before that every diner is entitled to exactly the same quality, execution and service of any given dish. Like the money paid for them, the dishes themselves should be fungible. I've also said before that inequities in this regard support my contention that there is no such thing as a three star restaurant, only three star meals, which you may or may not receive when you go to a given establishment.

[cabrales]

While all diners at a three-star should receive very high quality ingredients and dishes, I do not necessarily agree that all diners should receive the same quality dish for the same price. Speaking generally and not of Jon's L-C experience, why shouldn't diners who have visited a restaurant many times or who exhibit understanding of a chef's cuisine upon an initial visit not receive a bit more caviar or the largest truffles (to the extent there are differences) in a dish containing that ingredient, to the extent that other diners still get a very high quality ingredient?

If truffles are inherently of different sizes, some diners would have to get shavings (assume they are the same weight in total shavings) from the larger, more aromatic truffles. Why can't a restaurant allocate those goodies to regulars or people who appear to appreciate cuisine and wine?

Also, foie gras pieces come in more or less desirable pieces. It was perhaps the luck of the draw, as John suggested. While a single piece would indeed be the norm at a three-star, it might not be entirely inappropriate to have received two smaller pieces. The overcooking is a separate, though related, issue. However, with all empathy for Jon, I do not believe that too much should be inferred from his having received a two-piece-foie dish relative to an adjacent diner.

Edited December 9, 2002 by cabrales (log)

[Robert Schonfeld]

Cabrales, you and I have disagreed about this before, and I don't expect anything to change.

There is nothing wrong with the preferred customer - even if he or she is preferred solely for being French - receiving more truffles, or an extra course, or whatever the chef feels like doing to acknowledge such a customer, but this treatment should never come at the expense of a one-time paying customer. If the menu item is "foie gras" and the price is 30 euros, the one-time customer should receive the prescribed portion from the best part of the liver, just as the regular would. If the regular gets another piece, good for him. But serving the ends to a non-repeater, no way. Give them to a homeless shelter.

[cabrales]

Robert -- Why would you assume that the two-piece foie was served to Jon *because* he is a one-time customer (which he is in fact not) or he is a non-French person? Why could it not have been served to him out of the luck of the draw?

Note that L-C has a way to use smaller pieces of foie. In the steamed foie dish, wrapped in cabbage. Note, currently, this dish does not appear on the dinner menu and is only available during lunch.

What would you have a restaurant do? If there are smaller pieces of foie and smaller truffles, somebody has to get them. They could still be quality items -- just items that are not as good as other specimens.

Edited December 9, 2002 by cabrales (log)

[Robert Schonfeld]

Robert -- Why would you assume that the two-piece foie was served to Jon *because* he is a one-time customer (which he is in fact not) or he is a non-French person?  Why could it not have been served to him out of the luck of the draw?

The reason doesn't matter, Cabrales. All that matters is that he was served an inferior portion. Not acceptable. The money Jon used to pay for the portion was freely interchangeable with the money used by the other customer; so should the portion have been.

[cabrales]

Robert -- There are two, related issues. One is the issue of two smaller pieces vs. a single lobe. The other is the issue of the aggregated quantity of foie in either case. It's difficult for me to imagine that all customers receive the same quantity of naturally-occurring (even if that includes force-feeding) products.

If a restaurant receives two lobsters, one at 1 pounds and one at 1.25, and its dish requires the serving of an entire lobster, those two lobsters are generally charge out at the same price at a French restaurant. Similarly, if there are bigger lobes and smaller lobes, one cannot expect the restaurant to give everybdy the quantity represented by the bigger lobe. So long as everybody receives at least the quantity of the smaller lobes, that might be the standard. Foie lobes come in different sizes, and, with the preparation sampled by Jon, could not be trimmed (for larger lobes), as it would be evident. So perhaps the adjacent diner received an extraordinarily large lobe. So long as Jon's lobes were roughly the quantity offered at the restaurant for that dish, I don't see how there is cause for complaint (aside from the overcooking). Without having seen the serving size for, say, three or five diners during the period in question, it's difficult to attribute inappropriate behavior to the restaurant.

Edited December 9, 2002 by cabrales (log)

[Steve Plotnicki]

This is an easy one. God did not create all ingredients to be equal. He made some ingredients better then other ingredients. And to make things even more complicated, he didn't make people perfect either . So the imperfect ingredients are handled in an imperfect manner. And as a result of the above and probably some other things I am forgetting, some people get better slices of Foie Gras then other people get. Whether this is as a result of someone being French and the other person being American, or the result of someone being known to a restaurant and the other unknown, or some people getting VIP treatment, whatever it might be, to ask for equal treatment when it doesn't exist seems like a non-starter to me. The key is how to get the VIP treatment. Because as much as we[d like it to be, a restaurant isn't an exercise in egalitarianism. And it isn't as if this doesn't frustrate me as well. But boycotting it won't change it. And all you do is end up depriving yourself of some possibly good meals.

[cabrales]

Lack of egalitarianism doesn't bother me, even if I am not the recipient of special treatment. I don't want special treatment at almost all restaurants.

[Robert Schonfeld]

Jon Tseng wrote:

"I seemed to have drawn the short straw and was dished up two stubby end-lobes, whose uneven shape left them overdone with none of the melting gooeyness you get inside a nice thick tranche."

Cabrales, your capacity for argument - and I use that word in its best sense - exceeds my ability to remain interested in the topic. I trust I have made my point, and even if I haven't, I'm done.

Steve, I'm glad you share my frustration at the lack of egalitarianism, as you put it, in restaurants. I agree with you that the trick is to wring the best out of one's visit. I've pointed out before that the FG has written persuasively on how to do well in a restaurant. However, I find it especially aggravating when the restaurant works at cross purposes with that objective, as it did for you at Babbo the other night; as Babbo often does. This is the difference between making the scene at a feeding machine and slipping into a thick partnership with your host for the evening.

[Louisa Chu]

I inferred from Jon's original post that the entree was pan fried slices of foie gras - not an entire liver. If that's correct, then a grande maison like Lucas Carton never should have served anyone those end pieces as is. As for what they could have done with them? Well, cabrales made a good suggestion - using it as an ingredient in another dish, but that thought should never have to occur to a diner. And Steve, as for the assessment that imperfect ingredients are treated in an imperfect manner, well I believe that the opposite is usually true - it's the imperfect ingredients that usually require more attention.

[marcus]

There is the Japanese approach. A top quality Sushi restaurant will cut away and discard all but the most prime portions of the fish and the result will be uniform and excellent. On the other hand, the portions will be small and expensive. My understand is the Freddie Girardet took this approach in his restaurant, but I have no first hand experience. In general, I believe that a very top quality restaurant should lean in this direction. I'm not sure where I would advocate drawing the line from a practical perspective, but pretty close to that point.

[cabrales]

I inferred that the item was not sliced (relative to other slices on the plate). The presentation was one or two pieces, and they sounded like a "natural" portion sliced from a lobe, or perhaps a small lobe.

Edited December 9, 2002 by cabrales (log)

[Steve Plotnicki]

However, I find it especially aggravating when the restaurant works at cross purposes with that objective, as it did for you at Babbo the other night; as Babbo often does.

Well this is the crux of it all isn't it. I've been wondering how would I overcome the din from people who would like special attention at Babbo. And short of having a known chef make a phone call for me, I can't figure out how to do it. I guess I could eat there every week for months until somebody figures it out. But the food doesn't project itself to me as being worth the effort.

This is all a function of how crowded they are. Clearly the maitre 'd has not given the server instructions on identifying better quality diners and doing things to develop those relationships. Because if they were having nights with empty tables they would want to nurture those relationships. So they just don't care. And that's fine with me because sometimes you're a big fish and sometimes you're a little one. Better then everybody being the same size fish in every situation.

Edited December 9, 2002 by Steve Plotnicki (log)

[Jon Tseng]

Hullo folks

>The presentation was one or two pieces, and they sounded like a "natural" portion sliced from a lobe, or >perhaps a small lobe.

Nah, was goose so definitely the end cuts of a larger lobe. To be honest it wasn't that terrible - the uneven size just meant they didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting it cooked properly. To be honest, something like that in a three-star context just makes Mr Senderens look silly, which is probably punishment enough.

Anyhow, looks like two issues here:

1) What happens to the non-choice bits - uneven cuts, ends of lobes, different sizes of lobster. I'd side with lou in that they shouldn't be served at all in that particular preparation. There are plenty of other ways for a three-star to use off-cuts eg in foie gras mousse. However to serve them as an entree shows, at best, misjudgement and at worse deficiency of technique After all, One of the reasons why you pay the prices for a three star is that you are paying for the best ingredients QED!

Similarly if the lobsters aren't the same size, perhaps the restaurant should have a few words with their suppliers.

2) Equal treatment of diners. This is one which often comes up at the Ivy in London, where management unashamedly favour their "regulars" or, failing that, random B-list celebs. Personally I feel this is the wrong attitude to take as, ultimately, any restaurant is a service business and disrespecting any customer in a service business strikes me as inherently wrong. Nonetheless I do see merit in both the moral and commercial logic which underlies the opposing position. A couple of perspectives:

- If you boil it down to money, don't people paying the same price deserve the same treatment? If you paid that same price in the shop but got a poorer quality product than the next guy wouldn't you feel aggrieved.

- The counter-argument is, of course, that a dollar spent by a regular is worth more than a dollar spent by a random; good service to a regular is likely to lead to repeat customer; good service to a transient punter much less likely to. In this case the commercial logic works the other way.

- Is there a moral duty to provide equal service? All men are equal, basic human rights and all that. As a customer do you want to frequent a place which considers you less worthy because of what you are rather than who you are?

- Note that this elides into the wider issue of "Is the customer always right?", which is another debate entirely!

ttfn

J

[cabrales]

I recently had a very good lunch at Lucas-Carton (76 euros for the food portion, based on the "menu d'affaires" or "business lunch menu").

Steamed duck liver from Landes wrapped in a cabbage leaf, in the vapor, paired with Jurancon "Symphonie de Novembre", Domaine Cauhape, H. Ramonteu 1996 (my very first three-star dish ever and now a nostalgic favorite of mine, after a resampling several months ago)

Roasted pigeon from Kernivinen, "miroir" sauce, served with a creamy corn purée flavoured with white truffle [not slices, might have been oil], paired with Saint-Estephe Frank Phelan 1996 (second wine of Phelan-Seour). -- Polenta in this dish does not compare to very good polenta with sliced white truffles appetizer sampled previously. However, the polenta was surprisingly nice with the red-wine-based sauce of the pigeon preparation. The pigeon was delicious, and generous in proportion for lunch (about the size of dinner entrees, I would say)

Chocolate coulant from "Samana" vintage 2001 pure cocoa from the Saint-Domingue Bay, paireed with Tawny 20-year port. This is not at all the Bras version of the "upright" coulant. Senderens had a flattish dish, and much less gateau surrounding the runniness of the chocolate. I ordered this to investigate the coulant, despite not particularly appreciating chocolate.

http://www.lucascarton.com/page-dejeuner-a...-entrees-us.htm

[cabrales]

In reviewing the Lucas-Carton website, I noticed the following amuse-bouche pairings (apart from the Vranken champagne pairing, which I have received twice recently). Have members sampled any of the below amuses? Are the amuses available if one orders the described paired aperatifs?

-- Beverage: Manzanilla Finos dry sherry from Sanlucar de Barrameda

Warm belon oysters with roasted hazel nuts, served with chippings of ham "Jamon Iberio Bellota"

Baby squid stuffed with red peppers and spanish ham, fried ink-stained cuttlefish tentacles.

-- Scotch Whisky Bowmore, 10 years old, Single Malt from the Isle of Islay

Risotto of barley pearled, bacon creamed with hazelnuts

Roasted gambas with crispy bacon

-- Savigny les Beaune 1998 - Domaine J. Boillot

Fritter of tiny scallops served with a cepe mushroom sauce and roasted almonds

Seafood risotto perfumed with lemon zests and pink ginger

Edited January 6, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[Matthew Grant]

Is Lucas Carton still worth a visit. The wine pairings by the glass has always interested me but I wondered whether the food still measures up?

[vmilor]

Yes, It does worth a visit. A very good rendition of classical cuisine with intelligent touches.