babyluck

Well! We moved in last Thursday. It's been a whirlwind. We walked into the kitchen during the walkthrough and I saw the space for the fridge empty for the first time. All of a sudden it looked rather short. Sure enough, it measured 65" and the fridge is 68 3/4" high. I was loathe to cut into the cabinet above but there was little choice, and our contractor friend who was helping us move assured us that it was just pine and could be replaced easily. So my dad got to work reframing the space and hooking up the water & electric. Our contractor friend goes "what's the depth?" "25 inches!" I say. Nope. I got a bad measurement when the previous owner's fridge was in the space. It's 21". The old fridge that was there was a counterdepth too! Mine sticks out just as much. Sometimes you just have to laugh. We so need more storage space right now. I can't wait for pegboard and pot racks. The previous owners even took the 3 puny hooks out of the wainscoting by the stove. There is one electrical outlet in the kitchen, on the floor near the stove (now there's also one in the fridge recess) and one in the pantry just inside the door. Both are 2-prong. We are making coffee out in the living room because the coffeemaker won't fit vertically between the counter and the upper cabinets in the pantry. Neither will any of my other appliances, for that matter. Don't get me wrong--we're very happy and I love the house. Everywhere you look is another neat little detail or piece of hardware. Will post embarrassing pictures soon of our jury-rigged partially moved-in little kitchen.

Another update: I bought a fridge yesterday--the GE Profile counterdepth side-by-side. Got it at a scratch & dent place for $999.

There are several ideas for wall-mounted dish racks and similar ideas in the other great book marie-louise recommended, Kitchens for Cooks. It would probably be more helpful to you than Bungalow Kitchens, since it sounds like you are more interested in function than authenticity (but I also encourage you not to rip out anything you may regret later).

I had a strange chili dog recently with a topping that could only have been beef heart. It was blackish and soft and bland. Not my favorite. It's too bad because the place is 1/2 mile from my new house and I liked the atmosphere. It was a sit-down weiner place with super-nice waitresses and printed menus with lots of hot dog beauty shots. Reminded me of a Waffle House, but with hot dogs instead of waffles.

Second the Fine Homebuilding Kitchens & Baths rec. I picked it up and it is the most useful of its ilk. Seems like bungalows are everywhere you look in home magazines now. There is a great idea in the Bungalow Kitchens book that I wish worked for me--maybe it will for you. It had a breakfast nook at one end of a long, narrow kitchen with a step up into the nook so the table was at countertop height and the end could be used as an additional prep area. I also really like nooks with L-shaped benches and chairs on the other side. It saves space, gives you storage under the benches, and allows more guests to be accommodated. One of these magazines also showed a brilliant solution--instead of having the bench seats lift up, they were fitted with drawers that pull out from the ends. The family put them to good use storing thermoses, lunch boxes, etc.--bulky stuff that doesn't fit well anywhere else. The Danby sounds great. Mr. Babyluck is against a smaller dishwasher, though. Makes me wonder why I even bother to ask sometimes. Don't tell marie-louise but I was planning to round off one countertop, and I don't have any arches in my bungalow...

I have the same sort of situation in the house I'm moving into in a month. Very curious--what is the 18" dishwasher you found?

Update: Moving day is coming quickly--we close exactly a month from today. I haven't chosen a fridge but I am tending toward the counterdepth Amana Easy Reach. Mr. Babyluck came through with a solution for you pot rack fanatics. I was concerned that a standard pot rack would hang too low over the table. He is going to take some extra 2x8 steel gridwall pieces left over at work and hang them from the ceiling--I was thinking of actually using 3 and having almost the entire ceiling covered with them, at different heights to allow for different size pans. I think I'll still do the pegboard by the stove but Mr. Babyluck is inexplicably against it. I thought it would be right up his ally but apparently he's over pegboard and into gridwall. I suppose we could put it up there too if he insists. Might look good over a painted wall. Not too vintage, but nice & utilitarian. Call me crazy, but I offered to have the entire family over for dinner the day after Christmas. So I need to move in and get the place ready for entertaining in about a week. I figured everyone who is coming from out of town would want to see the new place anyway--plus, everyone I know is always saying "we'll have people over when we get the new couch," then it's the curtains in the guest room, and having the floors sanded, and before you know it, it's been a year. I would rather have our family join in on the excitement (and mania) of newness. P.S. marie-louise, I also bought the book you recommended on the other thread, Kitchens for Cooks. I got it along with Black & Decker Kitchen Remodeling for $9 with shipping on ebay. It's an awesome book and really got me thinking. I was especially impressed by the featured kitchen with no built-in cabinetry (the woman named Annick with the fabulous gardens) and her quote that "kitchen cabinets are a manufacturer's plot to separate women from one another."

Um, yeah. I just measured my apartment stove. It's 19" wide. The only burner that works properly is the left rear, right up against the backsplash thing. I have some big pots that have never even been used because of that. 27" is starting to sound heavenly.

Yeah, now that I realize the stove is about 36" wide, that only leaves 36" to the fridge area when the stove is rotated. My butcherblock and the standard Hoosier cabinets are 41" wide. In response to your earlier question, yes, I do bake quite a bit and hope to do more after we move in. The stove we have now is probably 27" and it drives me absolutely nuts. I am more interested in your suggestion (or andie's, can't remember) to get a big-ass 6-burner in the future with a cutting board cover. I'm also picturing the Hoosier or one of those baker's tables from the period for the area the table is in now. Maybe with some folding stools for people to sit and chat while I'm cooking.

No problem, here you go!

Measurements (starting from the LR entrance and going clockwise): Wall behind stove to molding: 43" Wall to right of stove, LR wall to fridge recess: 6' (Behind this area is the chimney and a hall closet. Wainscot area is not painted brick like I thought but incised plaster made to look like brick or subway tile.) Fridge recess: 25"D 36"W Space between pantry & rear doorway, including moldings: 40" Table/shelf unit: 30" wide, extends 4' into the room (Looked much smaller this time for some reason) Base cabinet is 60"W, 25"D. Sink is 32" wide (double sink). 2" btw cabinet & radiator. Wall to R of cabinet from outside wall to LR molding: 32" (where marie-louise suggested a wall cabinet) Wainscoting is 4' off the floor. It was so great to get inside the house again--we can't wait to move in. The inspection went very well. P.S. Any opinions on Amana fridges?

I'm not in love with those fridges (nice examples of cabinet camouflage)--I don't have a problem with the appliances showing. I think it's a frank expression of the utility of the room, sort of a Craftsman idea anyway. HOWEVER, I am in love with the fridge setup in one of the articles in the current (fall) issue of American Bungalow. It has many individual doors, like an icebox, except they are glass with gorgeous mahogany trim and simple silver-colored latches. If I had the money I'd do something like that. Sink cabinet--yes, I could picture a cabinet with glass doors there, for glassware.

marie-louise, I got the Bungalow books yesterday (by the way the other book I got is the one you recommended, American Bungalow Style--I got the name wrong before). I love Bungalow Kitchens. It is exactly what I needed to piece together the great ideas I've gotten from egulleters about how to make a kitchen work for a cook, and also to stay in tune with the nature of the original home. It's miles away from the fancy Arts & Crafts books I have--I love that the author points out things like "if you must have a hand-hammered copper sink, put it in the butler's pantry," or "if you display your art tile, hang it on the wall." The basic idea is that period kitchens in regular folks' homes like mine were simple and utilitarian, which has a beauty all its own. She admits that the layouts were often awkward, like mine, which she partially attributes to the fact that they were designed by men with little experience actually working in kitchens. Another indispensable piece of advice has put me off the black & white checkerboard floor idea--"whatever dirt doesn't show on the white will show on the black." Thanks for the recommendation!

Whaddya think?

I got excited for a moment until I realized that the table can't go in the current pantry as the shelf unit would cover the window. Oh well. I just looked at the Julia's Kitchen website at the Smithsonian and I am thinking "yes" to pegboard especially for the wall where the 3 pans are now hanging. Below that chair rail is brick painted white. I can't wait to scratch off a bit and see if it is nice red brick underneath--if so, I would strip it (yes, it can be done). I have an as-yet-unsatiated desire for exposed brick. That area above the chair rail would be perfect for pegboard. I was planning to put our pot rack there but thought it would project too far and I'd be stirring sauces at the stove in a forest of clanging pots and pans. Pegboard! Love it. I do have a butcherblock unit that I bought for our apartment. Nothing special--it's similar to this one. I don't think it will fit in the current setup but it could stand in for the Hoosier until I can spring for one (after we turn the stove).

Not sure--will know exactly after the inspection, rescheduled for next Tuesday. I'd imagine it's about 28"x60".

I'M NOT GETTING RID OF THE PANTRY. I personally think it will be really useful and though I love breakfast nooks with built-in benches, I think I will like not running down to the basement for cans of tomatoes better. If in the future we decide that we don't need the pantry, I would only change it around if I could remove the cabinets intact and move them somewhere else in the house.

I think it is fir--that's what the moldings appear to be and the grain looks similar. Like the open-air coolers, there's not a lot of redwood out here. I'm not an expert at wood grains, though--yet! My dad will know but he can't really tell from the pictures.

I love those cream-and-green Hoosiers. It would match the current almond stove, too. Almost makes me think I should get the other appliances in almond (or bisque as they call it now) but I am pretty set on black & white vinyl tile for the floor and I'm not in love with mixing cream and white. I'm torn between having a light-and-bright kitchen and a warm-and-cozy one, tending toward the former. The inspection was delayed...

You're in luck, marie-louise--our inspection is tomorrow morning and I will measure everything--was going to measure the fridge area & sink cabinet anyway. I'm thinking in the medium-term (6-12 months) if we turn the stove 90 degrees we could put in a Hoosier cabinet next to it. That would allow me to have some workspace and basics near the stove. I have trouble imagining a built-in cabinet there because it would limit access to the recessed fridge. A Hoosier would be a little less deep and very period-appropriate. Plus, I could reuse it in most any future kitchen configuration. On ebay there is a company who sells repro Hoosiers. I got a kick out of their slogan: "Hoosiers are like Corvettes in the eyes of a woman."

Floors are linoleum over wood I suppose--not concrete.

Good point. There are so many things to consider! The house is great--we were able to afford it because it's a 2 bedroom--enough room in the attic to make a great master bedroom/studio or two smaller bedrooms. I also speculate that not many people (at least not those in my tax bracket) are looking for original features like I am. Most may want an easy move-in, with all the modern conveniences ready to go. I definitely consider myself lucky, although it does have all these mixed blessings, like a huge old oak tree in the side yard, right where a garage should be. Kind of like the kitchen table--wonderful but badly located. One of the things I'm looking forward to most: being able to use the roasting pan & cookie sheets I got for wedding presents 4 1/2 years ago--they are too big for my current oven! P.S. What is it with those big grey cats? I have one too--he is looking forward to the move as well.

I know LG from the whole internet fridge thing--I'm wondering what is so special about their "other" fridges--temp control?

Fridge: the owners are taking it so we do need to buy one. I was thinking of a counterdepth model so it would lie flush in the recessed area and open up the pantry doorway (if you look at the thick line in my drawing you can see where the doorway is blocked by the current fridge). A (can't bring myself to call you Daddy), thanks for taking the time to draw it up! Extending the countertop over the radiator is brilliant. I wonder if it would affect the heat distribution, though. Snowangel had previously suggested removing the nemesis-door to the stairs. I don't know--might get drafty in the winter but it's worth a look. Marie-louise, thanks for the info on the books. I do have Inside the Bungalow so I'm glad you told me. And rest assured that I have no intention of taking out the pantry cabinets. Rather, like Cusina suggested, I intend to build the kitchen around them. And I only halfway stumbled onto this find. I told my realtor up front that what I really wanted was a Tudor or Craftsman style with good bones that hadn't been renovated too much. She gave me this look like "kind of picky with your budget, don't you think?" I was almost ready to admit she was right and settle on something average when this house came up. Like I said before, it's not strictly Craftsman in the California style, but I love it for what it is and as a product of the original owner's dedication. I want to preserve what is there and use it as it was meant to be used--not as a museum but as a home. I will think long and hard about every decision and not do anything until I'm sure and I can afford to do it right and do justice to the house. Snowangel, I fully intend to follow your advice and do little until I get a feel for the place. The only reason I'm obsessing over it now is that I need to make some large purchases up front, like the fridge, and I want to make sure that they will work with whatever layout we end up with. Phase one will just involve swapping the current cabinet with a new one with a 24" section for a dishwasher and putting in a shallower fridge. I imagine that we won't change the orientation of the stove right away although it seems inevitable.

Snowangel, Cusina, and others--thanks for the nice comments. Andie: On the Craftsman issue: this is not a Craftsman bungalow, it's a Craftsman-style bungalow. It was built by the original owner in 1925 who was probably just a regular guy who liked the style and adopted it to his needs and budget. I doubt a stick of Mission-style furniture ever lived under this roof. Like most 20s bungalow owners they probably used whatever they had and took elements from popular design of the day. The built-in table is clearly not Craftsman style but it is definitely original, or at least added by the original builder sometime during the 70 years he lived there, and the same for the pantry. We are buying it from the second owners, a household of women who have kept the house up but thankfully not replaced or painted over any of the original features. They most certainly would not have arranged for a carpenter to build period cabinetry. However, they may be responsible for the odd window. When you said that I remembered that the pantry window is the only modern window in the house. It is possible that there was a smaller window there before. Maybe they were having trouble with it and had it replaced with the double-hung window, for any number of reasons. Your suggestion makes a lot of sense space-wise, with the constraints of the gas line and plumbing, but I could not rip out the pantry cabinets. The table--maybe--you all are slowly convincing me--but not the pantry.