JC

Kristin, Just curious, what sort of knives would you typically find in a Japanese kitchen? Are the Japanese more fond of the European imports (like Henckels or Wusthof) or do they stick to the traditional Japanese models like santoku, deba, wabocho, etc.? What do you use yourself, if you don't mind me asking?

goyatofu, Where to buy in Japan? About the same places as in the USA, i.e. department stores (kitchen section), specialty knife stores, etc. Oh, you can find Masamoto at Tokyu Hands! Osaka is the right place to find Japanese knives. It's smack in the middle of the Sakai region, one of the foremost producers of knives in Japan. In Osaka, Doguyasuji is a good choice. I've been there. There are a handful of shops there that carry knives. I can remember one shop called Yamashita and another called Ichimonji. Nearby, in Namba there is also a large department store (Takashimaya) that has a decent kitchen department. Before you shop, it's good to have an idea of what kind of knife you want. If you need some ideas, just ask.

SG, Yes, Japanese knives in Japan are much cheaper than in USA. You can expect to save 30-50%. Example: that Glestain 9.4" knife you mentioned (model 724TK). Korin = $264 Japan = $150 that Nenox S1 9.4" knife you mentioned Knife Merchant = $279 Korin = $357 Japan = $289 (this is full retail, street price is about 20% off)

Actually there are two Masamoto knifemakers in Tokyo. One located near the fish market at Tsukiji, and the other at Sumida-ward (sold by Korin). I believe they are related family-wise but have split operations.

15° is quite acute for a knife edge. Gives superb cutting performance, but the edge may degrade faster and require more frequent sharpening. Personally, I like a 15° edge especially if married to one of the modern "super steels" (e.g. S30V). Then you get everything, the cutting performance and edge holding. I've heard that the Globals and Messermeister Elites come with 15° edges from the factory.

This one I actually own and use... It's a Hattori Unryu honesuki knife. 6" blade of VG-10 steel laminated with 63 layer damascus. Insanely sharp.

I like the look of this one...

Here's another maker to tempt y'all: http://www.tichbourneknives.com/kitchen.htm His name is George Tichbourne and many people on another knife forum commend his knives highly.

Korin is a purveyor of serious Japanese knives. They have some of the most respected Japanese makers, whose top knives can cost in excess of $2000!!! Spending several hundred $$ there is no problem. glenn... that Nenox is lovely. Never tried one before, but I have an Aritsugu and Suisin. Let us know how you find the Nenox. Why did you choose it over the others?

Being Malaysian, I'm quite familiar with the pomelo (that's how we spell it) since it's a native fruit. What's more, my hometown (Ipoh) is famous for it and many visiting tourists buy a few to take home. Personally, I don't like the taste (and I don't like grapefruit either) but many Malaysians are fond of the pomelo.

pjs... Can you share about the preference for high carbon blades? I'm interested to know more about the woodworking world and their uses for steels. The chisels which go up to 67-68 Rc are normally of High Speed Steel (HSS). The white/blue steel versions are normally between 62-64 Rc. I hear white steel cuts better though, but edge-holding goes to blue steel.

Rather than in a rod form ("steel"), you can find diamond or ceramic stones. Yes, they would likely sharpen rather than hone.

With something even harder! Like a diamond or ceramic hone. Some sharpening systems (e.g. Spyderco Sharpmaker or the Edgepro)come with an angle indicator. Alternatively there are angle guides that you can buy for use on stones. Haven't heard of that one. I normally hear of Lion Sabatier or Elephant Sabatier.

Thanks for the vote of confidence; although my knife knowledge pales in comparison to the *real* knife knuts out there. :) Most of the knowledge filters down from the users and makers of outdoor or utility knives. These are the people who are really pushing the envelope when it comes to knife performance and design. They experiment with new steels, new blade designs, new heat treatment methods, etc. A lot of the work done here is making its way down to knives in the home, which are gaining recognition as being just as important as knives in the field. Where to find these people and the discussions? On dedicated knife forums such as: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/ There'>http://www.knifeforums.com/ubbthreads/ubbt...s.php There's a wealth of knowledge there. Do a search for specific threads on kitchen knives. I have not come across any specific sites or books on kitchen knives. On knives in general I have plenty of links, but the material is pretty far ranging. Let me know what kind of info you're after and I'll see what links I can dig up. As for what knives I like best, for production pieces definitely Japanese. And I don't mean Global. There are many cutlery makers in Japan who aren't known outside the Japanese border and they produce very high quality stuff, both in the traditional style (i.e. with a stick tang and magnolia wood handle, e.g. Bunmei) and western style with a full tang and riveted handle. Plus, the better makers usually forge the blades (often by hand!) and many of the other operations (like fitting and sharpening) are also by hand. What I like about them is (a) the variety of steels available, from traditional carbon steel to exotic super-steels, (b) the incredibly sharp edges and © the edge holding, because Japanese knives tend to be much harder (it's not uncommon to find 59-61 RC and as high as 64 RC!!). I'm using knives from Hattori, Hokiyama and Kanefusa and they outcut anything I had before. The other category I like is a custom knife made by any of the fine North American craftsmen. These makers concentrate mainly on outdoor knives but have diversified into kitchen knives. One example is Wildfire Cutlery mentioned above. There are many others. George Tichbourne is quite popular as well - http://www.tichbourneknives.com/kitchen.htm - and his prices are relatively okay. There's something about having a bespoke knife made for you, just like a bespoke suit. Really good knives aren't cheap (and if you think Wusthofs are expensive you haven't seen the price of some of the Japanese or custom knives). But for a tool which a chef uses day in day out and which can last decades, I think it's a worthwhile investment.

On another note, how well a knife cuts is more a function of its blade geometry rather than what steel it is made of. By blade geometry I mean how thin the edge is, what kind of grind it has, and what is the edge angle. Japanese knives (like Global) are known to use a more aggressive edge angle (~15°) compared to the Germans (~20°). I think Messermeister is following the Japanese lead with their new "Elite" edges on the San Moritz and Meridian lines, which uses a lower edge angle.

A steel is considered "stainless" when it has more than 13% chromium. "High-carbon stainless" is stainless steel with more than 0.6% carbon. Then you have "ultra-high-carbon stainless", plain "carbon steel", "high-speed steel", etc. I don't think these terms are set in stone because I've seen slightly different numbers from different sources. It's much better to get the exact name of the steel, e.g. D-2, 1095, 440C, etc. Most of the German brands use a blend called X50CrMoV15. "X" stands for INOX or stainless. "50" indicates 0.5% carbon and "CrMoV15" means the combined total of chromium, molybdenum and vanadium is 15%. That can be true. Higher carbon contributes greater hardness and edge holding (it's not unusual for high end steels to have between 1-2% carbon). Plus if they add molybdenum and vanadium to the mix then that is advantageous to edge holding as well. But another influential factor is the heat treatment. Harder blades keep their edges longer. I believe many German brands have their blades around 55-57 RC. I've read that Global is up to 58 RC. The way each manufacturer heat treats their blades has a big bearing on the performance of the blade, regardless of the steel used. Basically, there is an inverse correlation between edge holding and ease of sharpening. If you have a knife that keeps its edge for what seems like forever, it will also seem to take forever to sharpen. For me, the discoloration and the lower resistance to corrosion is the biggest turn-off of carbon steel. (Edited by JC at 11:43 pm on Jan. 12, 2002)

Steven... Just discovered this board and reading some of the past messages. I have a thing for kitchen knives as well. In what way are they "useless"? Are you saying that because they are a b***h to sharpen? In general, carbon steel knives are prized because they have good edge-holding. This can be a combination of the inherent chemisty of carbon steel and the heat treatment (many makers run carbon steel harder than stainless). Of course, the flip side to better edge-holding is difficulty in sharpening. Some people can live with the trade off, some can't. It's all personal preference. Then again some of the new stainless steels with molybdenum and vanadium added can also be a bear to sharpen due to the harder carbides. Again, this depends on each maker's specific formulation and heat treatment.