LWB

Not sure - I always have both in the pantry and milk has both proteins. In theory they denature differently and so perform slightly different jobs, but I have not reliably tested this and suspect the differences are subtle.

Happy new year everyone, hope y'all are well. I greatly appreciate all the comments to my overrun issue. Recently made a breakthrough and am pretty sure I figured out the problem: too much protein. Being a protein junky, it didn't occur to me that mixing at double the standard protein content of ice cream (8-9% vs 4%) would be a problem, provided I compensated for freezing point suppression. After re-reading some of Ruben's and your blog posts, the research suggests that proteins bind to fat, and excessive protein (especially whey) over-stabilizes the emulsion, preventing partial coalescence and therefore overrun. Curious, I did a trial run with my usual routine but at 10% fat / 4% protein / 23% other solids and viola, overrun achieved. I didn't measure it, but 900g of starting base produced over a liter of churned product and the taste/texture has been awesome even many days later. I'll continue to experiment, but am very happy to report the improvement. Thanks to all for the input.

Sorry for taking a while to respond guys, I appreciate all your help! It's great to get so granular here. @Lisa Shock @paulraphael Here is the latest base I've been using. All my bases are variations of the following with some tweaks for flavorings, the %s of ingredients are roughly the same. 100g - Heavy Cream 300g - 2% Milk 20g - Whey and casein protein powders (50/50 ratio, 10g each) 10g - Flavorings (sometimes a little molasses, vanilla/other extracts, cinnamon, or other flavor powders, etc.) 80g - Sugar blend (40g sugar, 20g stevia/erythritol blend, 15g polydextrose, 5g vegetable glycerin) 17g - 1 egg yolk (optional, I often go egg-less and haven't noticed any difference in texture) 2g - Salt 1g - Stabilizer blend (4:2:1 ratio of LBG, guar, lambda carrageenan). (~0.20% of the base by weight.) 0.20g - Polysorbate-80 (0.04% of the base by weight.) This produces a mix of 8-9% fat / 9-10% NFMS / 18-19% other solids (incl. 16% sugars) / 36-37% total solids. All %s within the recommendations I've seen. Wet and dry are mixed separately, blended, sous vide cooked at 167F for 1 hour, re-blended and aged in the 37F fridge for typically ~24 hrs (overnight then churned next evening). I'm certain this produces 0% overrun because measured volume before and after churning is the same (in fact less after due to some losses from transferring containers). I know my bases are lower fat, but I should get something here. On the plus side, I have the flavors and freezing point suppression right where I want them, and I don't taste any ice crystals, so that's great! 😆 @ccp900 Your comments are helpful, thank you. Some of my random observations on aeration and viscosity. After first blending the base there is typically good aeration - sometimes I have difficulty submerging the bag in the sous vide because of this. After the mix cooks, it is slightly more viscous and blends into a beautiful-looking emulsion but with zero aeration. After the cooling/aging it gains more viscosity, but is still pourable. The difference in aeration pre- and post-cooking is what made me think the LBG is the culprit, since the cooking activates it. I am starting to think the protein denaturing and its effects on viscosity has a large impact as well. Going forward I will try reducing the stabilizers and proteins to lower viscosity and see what effects that has. It might gain some iciness but if it gives me more overrun I'll be super happy.

Yeah I've accepted that the home machine will never achieve commercial overrun, however I am pretty certain from observation that my batches have literally 0% overrun, which suggests something in my base is preventing aeration. 1000g of churned base does not even fill up two pint boxes. Pre-whipping and polysorbate-80 has made no difference either. I am thinking the chemistry of the stabilizer (LBG, guar, lambda @ 4:2:1 ratio & 0.20-0.30% of base mass) or protein blends is gelling or doing something funky. I will try reducing both and increasing fat to see if that does anything.

Thanks again - I always cook my bases at night and churn the next evening, so they're chilled for at least overnight and most of the next day. I'll look into polysorbate-80. The ICE-70 spins at 62 rpm according to Ruben's review which I assume is not unordinary. More likely my base is the main culprit - I've been very pleased with my texture results overall, but more overrun will be an improvement.

Hello eG, hope all of you are well. I found this forum in the process of googling the more scientific aspects of ice cream, finding two long threads here going back several years with a wealth of fantastic info. Originally from CT and miss the seafood life there, but the BBQ we have here in central TX is a terrific replacement between home visits. I was barely into cooking before discovering sous vide 2 years ago - what a game changer. I'll throw out my favorite underrated cut: beef sirloin flap! Looking forward to reading more.

Thanks Paul, I'll keep experimenting and maybe reach out to Dr. Vega and get his thoughts. I expect the differences to be subtle but the science behind it is still interesting. Another question if you don't mind - I'm having problems generating overrun (using an ICE-70). Do you have some ideas on inducing more overrun via ingredients or technique? My recipes are low-fat (6-7% fat, ~10% NFMS, 36-39% TS) and I also use lecithin, LBG and guar in appropriate 0.20-0.30% amounts with otherwise great results. I recently bought some mono- and diglycerides to experiment with as I read they help with aeration, but my last two batches with them seem to prove the opposite. I can't rule out other factors but they feel more dense with faster meltdown. I have tried pre-whipping the base and folding in one meringue'd egg white but have not noticed appreciable differences. I'd rather add a special ingredient or tweak my technique than add more fat or TS, if possible. TIA

I'm new to ice cream making (and first post here!), but might whey protein and casein protein powders work for you? They may not technically be non-dairy but protein powders labelled as "isolate" I assume are virtually lactose-free. My casein powder has 0.5g sugar per 30g and 0g/25g for the whey powder per labels. On this note, paulraphael I've read your blog which is spectacular and maybe you can help. As implied I've been using unflavored casein and whey isolate powders instead of nonfat dry milk to bring my NFMS content into the 9-10.5% range, cooked sous vide to 167F. What I'm questioning is the ratio of casein:whey for best texture. I typically use around 70-80% casein to 20-30% whey to mimic the composition of milk, but wondering if more whey would be better. I understand whey denatures better than casein under heat, just not sure what the textural trade-offs are between "too much" casein on one end and "too much" whey on the other, if that question makes sense.