slkinsey
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Posts posted by slkinsey
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I'd like to try the vanilla bourbon, too. Has anybody else done anything with infused bourbon? It seems like the challange here is to 1) pick an infusion that would complement the bourbon's flavors while 2) not overpowering or destroying them. As opposed to vodka where there's no inherent flavoring and you're trying to make something that tastes...like something!
I recommeded doing this while back. Having worked in a restaurant with an active Pastry department, I just asked the Pastry Chef for the old scraped out vanilla pods (which they had in abundance) and threw a big handful into a few bottles of bourbon. Several months later it makes a tasty sipping bourbon or is delicious mixed with Coke.
Also good in a Samhattan.
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Staples for mixing. Hmmmm. I usually have around:
- Gin: Gordon's for general-purpose mixing, at least one of Hendrick's, Plymouth or Boodle's for martinis
- Vodka: Luksusowa
- Bourbon: Maker's Mark
- Rye: Old Overholt
- Rum: Bacardi Silver (or off-brand reasonable facsimile thereof), Myer's
- Scotch: Famous Grouse
- Vermouth: Vya Extra Dry (white), Vya Sweet (red), Noilly Pratt (white)
- Bitter drinks: Campari, Cynar, Carpano Punt e Mes, Fernet Branca, Branca Menta
- Bitters: Angostura, Fee Brothers Orange, Fee Brothers Aromatic, Peychaud's
- Etc.: Cointreau, Grand Marnier, Luxardo Maraschino, Cherry Heering, Limoncello (brand differs), absinthe substitute (usually Richard or Pernod), white creme de cacao, cognac or some kind, Calvados, Poire William, Cachaca
- Stuff I happen to have around for specific drinks: Green Chartreuse, Pineau des Charantes
That's all I can think of at the moment in terms of stuff I try to have around pretty much all the time for the purpose of mixing.
- Gin: Gordon's for general-purpose mixing, at least one of Hendrick's, Plymouth or Boodle's for martinis
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Back during my college days (this is going back to the late 80's) I remember one party where some guy told me that the Jager in Europe actually had some narcotic ingredient in it.
The story I heard is that it contains valerian root, an herb often used as a sedative.
Since, AFAIK, the actual blend of herbs is secret... I think we have to say that the presence or absence of any herb is rumor only.
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Many of us have our own ideas about this, and it's been discussed here at some length... but I'd be curious to hear whatever thoughts you might have about what makes Italian food Italian beyond just the ingredients. I've always felt that your restaurants did not attempt to slavishly duplicate Italian dishes and flavors, and yet were very much Italian in spirit... almost as though you were treating New York City, its culture and available ingredients as just another region of Italy -- creating dishes that would seem "Italian" to any Italian (in contrast to most Italian-American cooking) and yet was distinctly New York as well. What is it about the Italian culinary philosophy/aesthetic that makes this possible, and how do you reflect this in your approach to cooking?
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Cool. I've got a half-full bottle of Branca Menta in my pantry right now.
You might be interested in this article on Italian amari, including Fernet Branca and Branca Menta, by our own Craig Camp (related discussion of the article may be found here.
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Back during my college days (this is going back to the late 80's) I remember one party where some guy told me that the Jager in Europe actually had some narcotic ingredient in it. I'm sure this is pure bullshit, but I've actually heard other people mention this on other occassions.
Yes, it is pure bullshit. And, IMO, this rumor is the primary reason behind the popularity of Jägermeister in America. I heard it plenty when I was in college, and knew many people who drank it exclusively for that reason (indeed, this is the stated reason the guys in Metallica got into it). While some few Americans with palates that appreciate bitter flavors may actually enjoy Jägermeister (I don't, but primarily because it is too sweet -- I wonder what I might think of the dryer version Beans tasted), I can't imagine that too many of the Americans drinking it actually enjoy the taste and would still partake of it were it not intoxicating. This ie because, despite the fact that it is very sweet it still has plenty of America's least favorite flavor: bitter. My working theory has always been that its popularity in the US owes a great deal to the "it gets you extra fucked-up" rumor. Nothing else explains why Jägermeister outsells, for example, Campari.
Here is a page on Snopes.com about the rumor that Jägermeister includes deer or elk blood as an ingredient (another persistent rumor). This passage I found especially interesting:
Jägermeister inadvertently contributes to the believability of the blood rumor by claiming to use "one or two secret spices" in its formula. This coyness is a common ploy used by products looking to build market share through fostering belief their offerings are so special their recipes must be jealously guarded lest competitors steal their thunder. -
I'm not sure about the Jäger in Germany, but the stuff I've drank on my many visits to Canada (usually twice a year) is much different. It doesn't have that cough syrup consistency or thickness and it also doesn't have that heavy aftertaste. It is "dryer" and less sweet.
Interesting. Assuming that Jägermeister is significantly less sweet in the incarnations not intended for the American market reinforces the notion that it is a herbal digestive like Fernet Branca and Underberg, and suggests that it was sweetened for American tastes and modes of consumption (most Americans don't even know what a digestive is, and bitter is not a flavor that is appreciated by many Americans). Would you say that the Canadian version is closer in style to Fernet Branca, et al?
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Tonight, we'll be making a drink that blew me away at Bemelman's the other night, Audrey "Libation Goddess" Saunders' Earl Grey MarTEAni.
That sounds wonderful. I love Earl Grey tea. I'm not so crazy about foamy drinks, though -- what's the texture like? Does the egg white make the whole thing like a light mousse, or is it more subtle than that? With advance apologies to Audrey, could I make it without the egg white and get a good drink, or is the texture key?
Hmmm... Hard to say. The foam more or less rises to the top of the drink -- so it doesn't stay foamy throughout. I have to think that the egg white also adds some silkyness to the mouthfeel.
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Tonight, we'll be making a drink that blew me away at Bemelman's the other night, Audrey "Libation Goddess" Saunders' Earl Grey MarTEAni.
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2. I got the idea because I was reading a Mario Batali cookbook, and he mentioned that an Italian aperitif he likes is fruit puree in sweet white vermouth. I haven't seen sweet white vermouth, besides Lillet. Any recommended brands?
Most of the Italian brands of white vermouth are relatively sweet. Vya also works well. All you need to do is put some white vermouth and ripe fruit (peach works great) into a shaker with some ice, shake well and strain out into an ice filled glass with a twist.
3. I order martinis with a decent slug of vermouth in them. I usually just say, Bombay martini, up, and don't skimp on the vermouth. I wonder if I should modify that.Why would you modify it? "Don't skimp on the vermouth" is exactly what one often needs to say in order to get a real martini these days. You might think of trying different brands of gin, though, just for variety (although I don't think Bombay Sapphire is very interesting).
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Awash is in our 'hood, and we like it a lot. Usually get a couple orders of the vegetarian combination and gefilfil, which is strips of beef and injera in a spicy chili sauce. Still... it's not quite as good as our old favorite, Ghion, which used to be on Amsterdam around 96th street.
I'm sure Fat Guy will have some plenty of things to say, as everyone knows he is a major Ethiopian food enthusiast (not!).
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Vya says they use Colombard and Orange Muscat in their Extra Dry, and Orange Muscat, Colombard and Valdepenas in their Sweet.
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i drink ketel if i can get it because i feel infinitely better the next morning than if i drink call liquor.
I don't think anyone -- certainly not me -- is arguing that there aren't notable differences between >$17/L quality vodkas and ~$5/L rotgut vodkas, even in cocktails. The question is whether it is worth the money to use $27/L Ketel One in a cocktail or mixed drink instead of a less expensive "vodka of quality" like Luksusowa at $17/L (I actually get this for around $13/L by buying 1.75L for $23).
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Didn't you post something like this recently, beans? Or was it a ginger daiqueri?
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Okay guys, I am going to nip this one in the bud. We are going to consider the "snob" fork of this discussion closed from this point forward, and I'll recommend that the Forum Host consider some selective deletion of posts.
I would like to offer the following, however, for the edification of any who may care to read it: A "snob," in the pejorative sense in which it is occasionally used in these forums, is "one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste." Different people will, of course, have different thresholds for what is offensive to their sensibilities. Implicit in this definition is that the extent to which any opinion or person is perceived by another as "snobbish" depends entirely on the other party's interpretation, and that is an interpretation which is filtered through the other party's own opinions and biases. I would caution us to all be aware of these tendencies, and would also suggest that it is appropriate for the participants in a food-related discussion forum to endeavor to have the broadest possible tolerance for expressions and opinions having to do with knowledge and taste as they relate to food and drink.
One of the things that eGullet and its members would like to promote and discuss is excellence in food and drink, regardless of the "level of fancyness" of same. Yet, in any subject of discussion, one finds that those who endorse excellence, high achievement, the use of the best possible tools, raw materials, etc. are labeled as "snobs" by those who perhaps do not share these priorities. It is entirely appropriate for members on these boards to decry what they perceive as shortcomings in any topic area having to do with food or drink, including, when appropriate, the customer base and how it has contributed to those shortcomings. If we may talk about what McDonald's restaurants/patrons have done to the American hamburger, and we may talk about what Olive Garden restaurants/patrons have done to Italian-American food and independent middlebrow American restaurants, we certainly may share our opinions about how people in America are consuming their alcohol and what it is doing/has done to the American cocktail.
Please be advised that this is not an invitation for public discussion of the foregoing in this thread.
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Note that they never seem to advertise the ingredients of real, tasty hot dogs...
Our hot dogs are made from the finest lips and assholes
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Cities included Athens, TX; Honolulu, HI; Omaha, NE; Redding, CA; Topeka, KS; Tyler, TX; and Wichita, KS.
- Largest population: Omaha, NE
- Easternmost city: Topeka, KS
- All cities West of the Mississippi River
Hardly representative of America as a whole, I'd think.
My personal favorites:
- Bacon
- Good aged cheddar
- Onion (grilled and/or raw)
- Shredded iceburg lettuce
- Slightly underripe tomato (i.e., not so soft)
- Pickle slices
Usually not all of these together, though.
- Largest population: Omaha, NE
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I've probably made 4 or 5 of these in my day. Much like a turducken, it was an interesting novelty but, I felt, ultimately not worth the effort.
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I guess this isn't a crime against alcohol, but it is a crime against drinking well. What is with the Jaeger fiaxation? Why is that considered even remotely acceptable for people to drink? It completely befuddles me. You might as well be ordering shots of Kaluha! Is this socially acceptable nationwide, or is it just a yay area thing?
Again, I don't get this judgmental thing about what others choose to drink. And before anyone gets upset by that, remember it is my job to please the guest and provide what they have requested.
Again, it's simply a difference in perspective. You are paid to not be judgmental about what your customers drink, just as a waiter is paid to not be judgmental about what his customers eat. But, that doesn't mean that one may not have an opinion about eating a well-done dry-aged porterhouse or drinking a big glass of Jaegermeister on the rocks (both of which I would characterize as misuses of good products). Indeed, I would suggest that we wouldn't have much to talk about on eGullet if we were constrained from remarking on trends having to do with what people choose to eat and drink.
I'll tell you our Jäger sales outsold our well vodka last season -- a first ever. And! We are certainly not a college bar. I'm witness to many a 30-40 something year olds ordering up Jäger Bombs, Sex with Alligators and Oatmeal Cookies.With all due respect to your clientele, these aren't exactly sophisticated drinks (Jaegermeister and Red Bull?!?) and, of course, the average 30-40 something bar patron is not exactly a sophisticated consumer of cocktails. That said, I don't have any issues with the idea of using Jaegermeister as a flavoring agent in small quantities, as one would use a bitter -- which is how most of these concoctions seem to be using it. And, in fact, that is exactly what Jaegermeister is: a bitter, like Fernet Branca or Underberg. It wasn't really designed for people to drink a big glass of the stuff. The whole point of a bitters is that you drink a little bit of the stuff to get the digestion going and settle your stomach. Then, sometime in the late 70s or early 80s a rumor developed that the herbal infusions in Jaegermeister (often claimed to contain opiates) would somehow get you extra fucked up if you drank a lot of it. Ever since then, Jaegermeister has been consumed as a regular beverage rather than a bitters. Fundamentally, there is no reason people shouldn't consume Fernet Branca, Branca Menta, Underberg, etc. exactly the same way, although I am not sure why anyone would want to. But, let's be honest here... not too many bar patrons are savoring the flavors of Jaegermeister. It's typically consumed quickly as possible as a novelty -- but primarily as an alcohol delivery system.
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Their burgers are:
- New York Burger: 6 oz. natural beef burger
- New York Cheeseburger: 6 oz. natural beef burger with American, bleu, Vermont cheddar, Swiss or Monterey jack
- Skyscraper Burger: double natural beef burger (12 oz.)
- Cheese Skyscraper: double natural beef burger with cheese
- Chicago Burger: 6 oz. natural beef burger with appleqwood smoked bacon, cheddar and 1000 Island
- Dallas Burger: 6 oz. natural beef burger with with fire-griled onions, Monterey jack and BBQ sauced
- Seattle Burger: 6 oz. natural beef burger with portobello mushrooms, fire-grilled onions and NY Burger Co.'s burger sauce
Edited to add: one of is clearly a faster typist
- New York Burger: 6 oz. natural beef burger
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Is the bun of some special quality that it can't easily be replaced?
It's definitely not a generic "hamburger roll." It may be brioche or something like that. Perhaps they get them from Sullivan Street Bakery, which is where I'd guess they get their (excellent) bread. The issue, more or less, is that the bread is around an inch larger in diameter than the burger. It's very good bread, but it's too big -- which is not to say that the burger is too small. Really, these rolls would be too big for any hamburger of reasonable size.
Anyway, I was at lunch with Dean. Had the gazpacho as well, plus a croque madame (ham, melted gruyere & grilled country bread topped with a fried egg). Both were excellent. We also got to try some of the porchetta (boneless roasted pig) special, which was also very tasty, nicely moist and came with some pieces of crispy skin. No sooner did Dean say, "they definitely brined this pork" than Valerie Serrao, the FOH manager, came by and told us about going into the walk-in and being startled by a whole pig soaking in brine. The man knows his pork.
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Gin is a spirit that I find I can detect differences in, even in 'heavier' cocktails sometimes.
I'm not saying categorically that this is isn't true, because everyone has differing abilities to taste. But, I can tell you this: my parents are both chemists and whenever soneone suggested that they could tell the difference between, for example, Gordon's and Bombay Sapphire in an Aviation or G&T, their usual response was "why don't you put on a blindfold and let's find out." Rarely, if ever, was someone actually able to do better than chance. Of course, with certain strong-flavored gins (Junìpero and the now demised Malacca come to mind) it would be relatively easy to taste the difference.
More to the point, however, are the questions as to whether a complex cocktail is made better by using the more expensive gin and whether one is able to appreciate the subtleties of the more expensive gin in the complex cocktail. In other words, whether or not you're getting your money's worth. This is, to be sure, an easier point to make with respect to vodka, where I think it's stupid to spend money on anything more expensive than a reasonably good brand like Skyy.
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Which vermouth(s) do you pour in your martinis? My preference for dry vermouth is Noilly Prat.
I often use Vya, albeit in much smaller amounts than Noilly Pratt due to its much stronger flavor. Noilly Pratt is the other dry vermouth I tend to use, and is definitely the one I'll use in trying the 1:1 martini Gary mentioned.
I'm also a big fan of Lillet as a stand-in for dry vermouth, and find Vya to have a similar flavor profile.Interesting. Lillet Blonde tastes sonewhat sweeter and less herbaceous than Vya to my palate, but it is an interesting one to use with gin. I've always been meaning to try a Vesper Martini (gin, vodka and Lillet Blonde).
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If I made a variation on the cosmo and called it a _______-tini, at least then other bartenders would have an idea of what it is. I blame it on the neat category thing that is an essential part of the multitasking demands of being a bartender. Sure I could name it, say a "Starry Night" but who else would know what that is? Including my fellow co-workers let alone another bar or in another city!
Presumably, however, the other bartenders would have to have some way of knowing what it is anyway, right? I mean, if you made a drink called, say, a "blossomtini" or a "s'mortini" I can't imagine that they'd have any useful idea how to make one without some kind of recipe from you. It strikes me that, for example, Audrey Saunders isn't having this issue at Bemelmans.
Not that I am saying the -tini thing is right or correct, but to one who pours for a living, it does make some sense. And I don't feel that it has bastardised the word "martini" either.Well, of course there is always going to be a certain take that will figure more from a sales-minded commercial/professional standpoint than it will from a connaisseur/enthusiast standpoint. And clearly there is no well-defined right or wrong in either of these positions. Personally, I think it makes plenty of sense to name a drink a "_____-tini" or a "_____ martini" if it is recognizable as a riff on the martini (others have mentioned a vodka-and-sake "saketini," for example). However, I have great regret over the number of cool cocktail names we have missed out on due to either user-friendly commercialism or lack of interesting ideas. After all, it's quite likely that, if it had been invented today, an up Margarita would be known as a "Mexican Martini" or "Tequillatini."
Pure Food & Wine (raw vegan)
in New York: Dining
Posted
Guys... if we are going to have a discussion of vegan and raw fod diets, and the science/pseudosience/politics associated with them, let's have it in a different thread, shall we? This thread is for discussing the restaurant Pure Food & Wine.
Personally, for me, any restaurant's food needs to stand on its own. One shouldn't have to buy into the philosophy -- be it related to health, politics, whatever -- in order to appreciate the food. Rather, one should be able to appreciate the food simply as food. The philosophy is extra.