slkinsey

The Ministry of Rum forum has been folded into the Spirits and Cocktails forum. Please have a look at our eG Forums reorganization announcement for more information. Back when we didn't have much spirits or cocktails discussion, the Ministry of Rum forum was here to leverage Ed Hamilton's incredible expertise in this area. Now it makes more sense to have all spirits discussion in one area, and to take advantage of Ed in that broader context. All the Ministry of Rum forum topics may now be found in the Spirits & Cocktails forum.

Rich, I'm curious: That's an interesting idea, but are you sure there is any legal basis for thinking that the restaurant is in the clear so long as you procure the glass and pour the wine? As I understand liquor laws and liability, the restaurant could still get into plenty of trouble for turning a blind eye. I'm sure, for example, that the restaurant would not be free of liability had you proceeded to order a half dozen Martinis and pour them into your niece's water glass for her to drink.

My experience is that carding happens with increasing frequency as restaurants descend down the "fine dining ladder." I can't imagine that Per Se or ADNY would for a moment consider not serving wine to a late-teenager in the presence of his/her parents. On the other hand, at Dinosaur Barbecue they probably would never serve a potential minor. Eleven Madison Park, the site of this particular example, is high enough up the ladder that I consider it unusual that they declined to serve a college age kid out for dinner with his parents. He wasn't asking for a nine ounce vodka martini, after all. Yea, I think we all know this can happen. Yea, it could happen at Eleven Madison Park to a college-age kid drinking wine with his mother during dinner. Is it likely to happen? I'd be shocked if any such thing has happened in this city at a two-star or higher restaurant in the last 20 years. The "rules" are different for bars than they are for restaurants (I would not consider it unusual if the bar at EMP declined to serve Bryan a martini). And the "rules" are different among restaurants as well.

robert40, please don't be deliberately obtuse. The legal validity and enforcability of the law is not the question. Everyone knows that there are plenty of laws on the books which are hardly enforced, and customs of looking the other way -- especially in New York City. For example, it is against the law to smoke within 100 feet of the entrance to a public building. Are you suggesting that building owners across New York City should be shooing away the huddling smokers during a rainstorm? Or, might it be considered ungracious to do so? I am quite sure that the owners, chefs and FOH managers in higher-end NYC restaurants are well aware of the fact that the children of well-heeled customers are regularly served.

Please direct any discussion as to observing alcohol laws (and drinking age in particular) to this thread in the Restaurant Life forum. Thanks!

Admin: An archive of "Bruni and Beyond" discussion from 2004 may be found here, discussion from 2005 may be found here, and an archive of 2006 discussion may be found here. I thought I'd kick off the new year with a new Bruni and Beyond thread. Have at it!

Wine pairings are frequently an option in top Italian restaurants. Isn't it also the case that the most common criticism of "top" Italian restaurants is that they're not all that Italian? And that their typical customers aren't Italian?

No one has said much about Indian buffets. Indian food strikes me as one that lends itself to buffet dining much more than Chinese, because it relies far less on a la minute preparation. Almost any long-braised dish will be okay in a buffet setting, and there are plenty to choose from in Indian (or, rather, Indian adapted for a buffet in America) cookery. Roti Boti in Jaskson Heights is a good example (although it's more of a steam-table place than a buffet, per se).

Hi Marlena. Two questions: 1. Where are you looking for these cocktails? A city would be useful to know in making recommendations. 2. I assume you are interested in buying these cocktails at a bar and not making them yourself?

I don't quite see the point of this. Part of this reason, I have to assume, is that the average Italian simply doesn't understand the concept of laying out 200 Euro for a bottle of wine. It's not the done thing in Italy and I daresay it's not the done thing in most any wine-drinking culture (which the United States by and large is not). If, indeed, it is the case that more Barolo is consumed in America than it is in Italy, it is because we have more people here with the interest and the means to shell out big bucks on a bottle of wine and therefore Barolo is being produced and priced for export. You might just as well say that the English don't drive many of their very best cars. This is probably true, but hardly demonstates anything other than the fact that the English don't have as many people with the interest and means to spend a quarter-million on a car. Part of what I think must drive the "micro-matching" in American restaurants is the prevalence of (genuine or would-be) oenophiles here at a certain price point. Although it may happen every so often, I don't think it's particularly common for Europeans to read the wine list first and then match the food with their choices. The only people I know who do that sort of thing are Americans. Quite to the contrary, most of the time in Italy, France, Spain, etc. wine is just something that is consumed with food. Yes, one cares about the quality of the wine and how it pairs with the food, but no more than one cares about the quality of the food and the food is driving (of course, many Europeans are far more invested and involved in their culinary culture than most Americans). The times I have enjoyed several different bottles of wine over the course of a European meal or outing, it has not been to make specific "this wine pairs so well with the hint of rosemary in the duck jus" kind of pairings, but rather just to enjoy a different and interesting bottle of wine. The other thing that has perhaps driven micro-pairing of wines is the growing popularity of tasting menus. In a regular three-course meal, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable or over-the-top to have a different wine with each course. It's when the meal grows to ten courses that the progression of paired wines can become a little overwhelming and occasionally a little silly. I wonder if and to what extent this practice has led to the point where two friends don't feel like they can share a single bottle if one is having pork and the other is having chicken, because a single wine can't possibly "match" both dishes optimally.

The discoloration on stainless steel cookware commonly caused by cooking over high heat is called "heat tint." It is not caused by coagulated proteins, or anything having to do with the food that is cooked in the pan. You can, in fact, produce heat tint in a stainless steel pan by heating it on the stove with nothing in it whatsoever. At around 350C/660F and higher, the stainless steel reacts with oxygen in the air to form an oxide layer. That oxide layer is the heat tint. Heat tint is not the same thing as the blackness that develops on a pan when fat is heated to high temperature. That is polymerized fat. It's quite durable, as efforts to remove it demonstrate, and can be relatively slick compared to other surfaces. The blackness comes from carbon that is bound up in the polymerized fat. "Seasoned" cast iron takes advantage of polymerized fat to form a less reactive and less "sticky" coating on the raw iron.

Grape tomatoes do seem, for some reason, to be quite reliable as to flavor, etc. throughout the year I don't think they're even remotely in the same neighboorhood as the Purple Cherokee and Brandywine tomatoes I get in the Union Square Greenmarket in August, but they do actually taste like tomato. I wonder what the deal is with this particular tomato? Where are they grown? And I wonder if the flavor 's related to the size somehow? Because the one thing that's incredibly annoying about grape tomatoes is trying to use them in a sandwich.

This may be due to several factors, however. For example, if you typically only use your roasting pan for birds that are too large for a skillet, it may be that your roasting pan is too small for the things you're roasting in it. If there are a couple of inches of room all around the bird in the roasting pan, I'd think it would brown just fine -- especially if elevated a bit (either with a rack or by sitting on a couple of halved onions, etc.). Just going by memory, my Calphalon roasting pan doesn't seem a whole lot thicker than that. It might warp a little bit on the stove, but not unusably so.

Those shysters!

Why, if the publication date of Volume CCLXVII (aka 267) of The Gentleman's Magazine was actually 1854 would it say "July to December 1889" on the cover? Or are you saying that The Unsophisticated Travellers originally appeared elsewhere in 1854?

Aren't all of those others too tall on the sides (i.e., >2 inches) for what you want? If you're willing to go up to 2.5 or 3 inches, your options open up quite a bit.

Stay tuned. We may organize a "for fun" competition in the new year.

It might be possible with a very heavy gauge sheet pan (at least 16 gauge, which is 1.29 mm in aluminum) and relatively low heat. I doubt you'd hurt yourself, but considering that those things have something like a 1 inch lip, I think it would be pretty damn messy. If the heat from the stove caused it to buckle at all (not unlikely) you'd have pan drippings all over the top of the stove. And once you deglazed, how would you pour the liquid out of the sheet pan into a saucepan without spilling it all over the place? What about this pan? It's got sides that are only two inches tall. It's also 14 gauge aluminum, which is 1.63 mm thick.

So... what's in a Democrat cocktail?

Hmm. I've not had a problem with burning pan juices when using a rack, but anyway that's what potatoes are for. I've been meaning to get one of these 16 x 10 babies for roasting, which sounds like what you're looking for but may be out of your price range.

Interesting. What was the thinking behing infusing the star anise in only 1/2 ounce of gin instead of the whole 2 opunces? Seems like you could put the 2 ounces of gin in the shaker with the star anise, wait 2-3 minutes, add the other stuff, put in the ice, shake and then double-strain into the glass.

I don't think that M&H does much "pre-screening." So they're not "selective" in that sense. That's supposed to be taken care of by their unlisted number/reservations system where they ask that you not pass along the number to anyone you wouldn't be comfortable having alone in your apartment for a weekend. Of course, the number eventually reaches wider distribution and a few jerks publish the number either in print or online, etc. This leads to some dilution of their target demographic. After a while, enough is enough and the number has to change (as it recently did). I will say, however, that I have been there when people have been asked to leave. I should hasten to point out that this is what makes it such a great place for more mature parties of two or three.

Hi Paul. I am not aware of any such pan, but I think you will find that a rack should provide sufficient elevation for all the air circulation you might desire in your existing roasting pan. One great advantage is that a roasting rack costs a lot less than a new roasting pan. I highly recommend roasting racks that are coated with a nonstick surface for ease of cleaning. That said, a liberal application of oven cleaner overnight works well on regular stainless roasting racks.

There's really not much point in spending big bucks on high performance cookware for an electric stove. The evenness of the heat source should take care of itself, and the slowness with which the heat source responds to changes in the heat setting will mitigate any advantages in responsivity. I'd say you have the right idea in your last paragraph: Wait until you have the induction stove, buy a piece of each and see how they perform against each other. There's no reason to have everything all from the same brand. In general, if you're going to lay out big bucks on an induction stove, it seems a bit silly to buy cookware based on how you think it would perform over gas. If you decide to replace the induction with gas, the cost of a few pots and pans will be the least of your worries (Mauviel Induc'Inox will be far from useless over gas anyway and, no, I wouldn't expect hot spots).

Milk & Honey is out for a group of that size. All the more because it's a weekend, and they do many things that would tend to make it less fun for the "twentysomething girls out for a fun/rowdy night on the town" demographic (they're very particular about restrained decorum and that sort of thing). But Flatiron is definitely a place that does a good mix of "cool scene for younger people" and great cocktails on the weekends.