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slkinsey

eGullet Society staff emeritus
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Posts posted by slkinsey

  1. Torrilin, you say that this UW cheese is a "romano" cheese? Is it made from cow milk? Traditionally, romano cheese is made from either goat or, more typically, sheep milk -- thus, Pecorino Romano, a cheese that has the same DOC/PDO protection as Parmigiano Reggiano. Almost all US romano cheeses are made with cow milk, and I think are quite inferior to the sheep and goat milk versions.

    Anyway, romano cheeses are made with a special technique called "rummaging" whereby the curds are drained very rapidly and then then the wheel is lightly pierced all over before the cheese is brined. This produces a different texture (romano cheeses are not grana cheeses) and results in a saltier cheese that can be ready after only around 6 months of aging, compared to 24 months typically for Parmigiano Reggiano. Pecorino Romano and the other romano-type cheeses are used mostly as grating cheeses, and they can't compete with Parmigiano Reggiano as a world-class eating cheese. UW probably makes romano-style cheese instead of grana cheese because the production time is so much shorter. It's not clear to me that college experience in making a romano-style cheese would have great applicability to producing a grana cheese.

  2. The advantage of gins like Tanqueray and Beefeater is that they have a traditional juniper-forward profile and are also high proof.

    All at around 94 proof are Beefeater, Bombay Sapphire and Tanqueray. Junipero is a little higher at 98.6 proof. Boodles is a bit lower at 90.4 proof. Bombay is lower still, at 86 proof. And then there's Plymouth at 82.4 proof and Gordon's at 80 proof.

    In addition to this, the various gins have different flavor profiles. Among the higher proof gins, Tanqueray has fairly emphatic flavoring and a strong juniper note, whereas Bombay Sapphire is softer. Interestingly, Gordon's is also one of the more emphatically flavored, juniper-forward gins, and it is the lowest in proof. Plymouth, a lower proof gin, has quite a soft flavor profile.

    I prefer Tanqueray for the Pegu Club cocktail. I like the fact that Tanqueray's gin flavor carrys through the drink, and since I make it with two ounces of gin to three-quarters each of lime and orange curaçao, I think it benefits from using a higher proof gin. If I were going to use one of the lower proof gins in a Pegu Club, I'd probably go with Gordon's over Plymouth in order to take advantage of Gordon's more emphatic juniper note.

    I love Plymouth, but I think it's softness makes it most appropriate either for drinks where it can shine relatively unadorned (e.g., a Martini) or for drinks where I would like for the gin to blend in seamlesly with the other ingredients, contributing its flavors but not necessarily signaling "there's gin in here."

  3. It isn't. After following up on some experiments Dave Wondrich did, I confirmed that stirring with cracked ice in a frozen stirring glass will give you the coldest drink.

    It's all about surface area contact for thermal transfer. With larger cubes, shaking will give you a colder drink because you increase the area of contact (and thus thermal transfer) by moving the liquid around vigorously.

  4. Again, for those who may be considering purchasing new tin-lined copper: consider the cost. Retinning is not cheap. These guys, for example, have you add up the diameter of the pan plus the height of both sides of the pan, then multiply by $4. So, the cost of retinning an 11-inch saute pan would be around 68 bucks before shipping, etc.

  5. A few interesting things from this article I found on the CI site:

    Parmigiano-Reggiano owes much of its flavor to the unpasteurized milk used to produce it, according to Radke [Nancy Radke, U.S. Director of Communications for the Consorzio del Formaggio Parmigiano-Reggiano]. It is a "controlled-district" cheese, which means not only that it must be made within the boundaries of this zone but also that the milk used to make it and even the grass, hay, and grain fed to the cows that make the milk must come from the district. Consequently, "just like good wine, a lot of character comes from its soil and climate," said Radke. This proved to be true in the tasting. None of the other cheeses had the sweet, nutty, creamy flavor that helped Parmigiano-Reggiano earn its high ratings.

    This suggests to me that it's unlikely that an American facsimile cheese could ever have the same flavor profile.

    Radke goes on to point out that Parmigiano Reggiano has a much lower salt content, because the wheels are a much larger size and do not absorb as much salt during the 20 day brining period. This means, among other things, that Parmigiano Reggiano can be aged over twice as long as domestic examples. The longer aging leads fo the disginctive crystalline nature of Parmigiano Reggiano, which SI says is the result of "proteins breaking down into free amino acid crystals during the latter half of the aging process," and it also allows more complex flavors and aromas to develop.

    The lower salt content also means that Parmigiano Reggiano is more perishable and more suceptable to degradation by drying out once the wheel is cut. This is likely a big part of the reason so many middle-market pre-cut/pre-packaged examples, such as the Connecticut Stop & Shop example Steven makes, are inferior. It also goes a long way towards explaining why the stuff Steven's mother brings home from Italy is so much better (#1, it's probably top quality that never makes it out of Parma, never mind Italy; #2 it comes from a wheel that was broken open the day she bought it, not 6 months earlier like the Stop & Shop sfuff). I always store my Parmigiano Reggiano wrapped in a lightly damp paper towel and sealed inside a heavy duty ziplock bag in the refrigerator to mitigate this problem. But the lesson to learn there is that, if the store isn't splitting their own wheels of Parmigiano Reggiano and turning over the cheese pretty fast, there is only so good the cheese can be.

    Domestic producers could, of course, cut their curd smaller, eschew mechanical pressing and make bigger wheels to reduce salinity and allow them to double the agind period. That's not standing in the way of someone stepping up to produce a quality American grana. What is standing in the way is that these things all cost a lot of money to implement, with an uncertain payoff considering the titan they'd be going up against.

    I'd actually love to see an American cheesmaker develop a top quality but distinct and unique grana-style cheese. I don't think it would compete with Parmigiano Reggiano for people who want the things Parmigiano Reggiano brings to the table, but it could be delicious and interesting in its own right.

  6. Parmigiano Reggiano is the leading example of an entire category of "grana" cheeses, which are hard aged cheeses characterized by their crystalline structure and granular texture. The Italians of Parma are not the only ones who make this kind of cheese, but nevertheless Parmigiano Reggiano is universally acknowledged as the best of the grana category -- and indeed, many cheeseophiles assert that Parmigiano Reggiano is the best of all the cheeses.

    Is it theoretically possible to make similar quality, if not identical grana cheese in America? Of course. But why? What would a cheesemaker gain by doing this? Where is the profit to be made? Where is the commercial will to set up production on a scale that would turn a profit (there is no making Parmigiano Reggiano on Bobolink-sized scale). Making a facsimile Parmigiano Reggiano is not directly comparable to, for example, making American wines because the American wines are unique and distinctive in and of themselves -- they are not facsimile European wines.

    Here's the thing: Let's say you learn the method from the experts in Parma, you import Italian equipment and you have your aging facility built to Italian specifications in a location with a fairly similar climate to Parma. This is a place where you can have access to more-or-less the same kind of grass and hay as the Italian cows. Maybe you're able to import over around 200 or so Italian cows and get them to thrive so you can make around 10 wheels a day, but more likely you just use American Holsteins. You only make cheese between May and November. You curdle the milk the same day. You reproduce everything as much as possible on the Italian model. You even hire a guy from the Consorzio to be the in-house quality examiner for your wheels, selling off the stuff that does not pass your standard as a lesser brand. You cut no corners and you do everything right. And, in the end, you might end up with something that is on a similar level of quality with A or high-B level Parmigiano Reggiano. However, just as someone in California duplicating the ingredients and methods of Bordeaux wine makers doesn't end up with a premier cru Bordeaux, it's likely that you a) won't end up with something that truly competes with A level Parmigiano Reggiano, and b) even the stuff you have that competes with B level Parmigiano Reggiano in terms of quality still won't be a taste-a-like. Meanwhile, once you achieve this not-a-taste-alike American grana cheese (after many years of tweaking and refining, needless to say), what are you going to charge for it to make back your investment and turn a profit? How much to you have to under-cut Parmigiano Reggiano, even the C level stuff, to get people to try it?

  7. Yes, but we're not talking about chefs buying a locally produced substitute (for what it's worth, I highly doubt that chefs who are shelling out for real Parmigiano Reggiano would line up to buy a substitute anything -- they might, however, go over to a different but equally good unique local cheese that could serve a similar function).

    Furthermore, what you're talking about now is an entirely different proposition. We're no longer talking about a reasonably good, reasonably priced Parmigiano Reggiano facsimile that beats Il Villaggio in the Connecticut Stop & Shop. We're talking about something good enough to entice chefs and sophisticated shoppers away from the good stuff they have already been buying. Something that beats, say, Grana Padano in price, but is better than Grana Padano to the point of being competitive with the quality of Parmigiano Reggiano professional chefs are able to procure. And, on top of that, it has to compete with the name recognition and appeal of the real thing.

    I have to believe that, if it were an easy or apparently feasible thing to make money producing a domestic facsimile of Parmigiano Reggiano that competes with good examples of the original available to restaurants and sophisticated buyers, someone would already be doing it. As I said before, I also think that a major barrier to entry in this game is the fact that the infrastructure would seem to make the minimum investment for entry fairly high. This doesn't seem like something one can duplicate at a small boutique farm. It takes approximately 145 gallons of milk to make a single wheel of Parmigiano Reggiano. That's the daily output of around 18 cows per wheel. So, the minimum you'd have to have is 36 cows just to make one traditional two-wheel batch. And, of course, the makers in Parma have all kinds of financially beneficial synergies where they do things like feeding the whey to (also local) pigs, etc.

  8. ...isn't the purpose of the tin lining primarily to reduce such interactions?

    Yes. Tin is much less reactive (and, as a bonus: not poisonous) compared to copper.

    I personally don't recommend tin-lined copper because the tin lining is too fragile and in the long run, once it's retinned it ends up being more expensive than stainless-lined.

  9. I like Audrey's recipe for a still ginger beer. You could always put it in a seltzer beer if you want carbonation.

    "Mulch" 1 pound of ginger in the food processor, then put this together with 1/4 cup of light brown sugar and the juice of two limes in one gallon of hot water for one hour. Strain, cool and enjoy. This, along with any natural ginger beer, begins to lose its "zip" after 5-7 days. There is no way I know of to make ginger infusions at home that keep their spicy quality through extended storage.

  10. Right.

    Although the problem with oversize cocktails (consider that the standard cocktail glass found in most restaurants and bars holds up to 10 ounces!) warming up is a problem even when the drink is a good one. This is why I've always liked the way Audrey and others have done their large-size Martinis and Manhattans: The drink is stirred with ice, and then half is poured into the glass and half into a small glass caraffe nestled in a bowl of crushed ice where it stays cold without further dilution.

  11. My earlier reply as to the gastrique was merged out of this thread into the Roses' thread, so I thought I'd reproduce the thread-appropriate part here:

    Has anyone ever tried using different flavored gastrics as substitutes for flavored syrups?

    A gastrique is a sweet reduction of vinegar, sugar and (usually) fruit? In older days, something like this would have been called a "shrub." This is actually a very old tradition. Wayne Curtis talks about it in his excellent book, And a Bottle of Rum: A History of the New World in Ten Cocktails (brief eG Forums thread here). Sounds like a very interesting direction for experimentation.

  12. I take your point about the quality of Parmigiano Reggiano at your "average American grocery store." It isn't very good. I would argue, however, that the quality of the stuff I get at Fairway is "high B" quality. If you adjust for the price of importation, I wouldn't say it's markedly inferior to the cheese you get for the same price in Italy. Importing is expensive. That's why we spend 35 dollars on Tuscan table wines that can be had for six bucks outside Firenze.

    Perhaps a better question might be: why does 90% of the cheese at your average American grocery store suck: Because, by and large, it does.

    Grocery stores probably charge more for mediocre Parmigiano Reggiano, and make a huge profit, because they know their customers are willing to pay that upgrade over the stuff in the green can. The reason they don't sell this stuff in Italy is because Italians wouldn't buy it -- but we've had myriad discussions in these forums around the fact that culinary life and quality of food is integral to average Italian life and much more important to average Italians compared to most Americans, so it's probably not worthwhile to belabor that point.

    The extreme expense of setting up for production of Parmigiano Reggiano-like cheese and the fact that it is difficult to make a meaningful profit without fairly large scale production, combined with the fact that Parmigiano Reggiano has fairly wide availability and the fact that most people don't really mind using cheese of the "Il Villaggio" quality means that it would, actually, be fairly difficult to make a profit producing and selling an American "Parmigiano Reggiano-a-like" for 9 bucks a pound. Otherwise, frankly, someone would be doing it.

  13. It could also come down to the age of the Rose's. It has shelf stability, but not that much shelf stability. I've definitely noticed from my own pantry that year-old Rose's is different from brand-new Rose's (for one, the color isn't the same). So that might have something to do with it.

  14. I'd like to end up with something that's not too sweet, but reasonably shelf (or, rather, refrigerator) stable.  If any of you have had the actual British Rose's lime cordial (made with real cane sugar and lime juice, unlike the American version which is made with high fructose corn syrup and God only knows what else) or any of the Belvoir cordials, think that, but with yuzu.  This recipe looks promising.  Hopefully I'll have enough fruit in a few weeks to give it a try, and I'll report back with my results.

    I doubt there is any meaningful difference between the UK and USA iterations of Rose's, other than the use of HFCS versus sucrose. There is a difference, however, between Rose's Lime Juice (the flagship product) and Rose's Lime Cordial, which has alcohol added so that it may be sold in liquor stores.

    I'll be interested to hear how the yuzu cordial turns out if you incorporate the yuzu juice as well as the zest -- both in terms of shelf-stability and in terms of flavor. I have to believe it will have some of that funkiness that some people hate and others love about Rose's.

    Has anyone ever tried using different flavored gastrics as substitutes for flavored syrups?

    A gastrique is a sweet reduction of vinegar, sugar and (usually) fruit? In older days, something like this would have been called a "shrub." This is actually a very old tradition. Wayne Curtis talks about it in his excellent book, And a Bottle of Rum: A History of the New World in Ten Cocktails (brief eG Forums thread here). Sounds like a very interesting direction for experimentation.

  15. 1)  Does anyone have Audrey Saunders' cold infused lime syrup recipe handy?  The link on the first page of this thread is broken, and I couldn't find it in a search.

    I think I might have been me who posted about that (I don't find it under her profile). There's really nothing to it: Start with a cup of 1:1 simple syrup, add the microplaned zest of one large lime, refrigerate for 24 hours or until it reaches the strength you would like, filter out the lime zest, bottle and use.

    I have several modifications when I do this at home: First, I use more than one lime's worth of zest per cup of simple. Second, I briefly (ca. 10 minutes) infuse the zest into an ounce or so of vodka before adding the vodka and zest to the cold syrup for further infusion. This creates a more pungent extraction that I might call "muddled lime syrup." Third, I do a 2:1 simple syrup for better shelf stability.

    2)  I've been adding a couple of tablespoons of vodka to my homemade grenadine as a preservative, but I was also wondering about adding ascorbic acid instead.  Anyone have any experience with this?

    Meh. The best way to preserve your homemade grenadine is to increase the saturation. Sugar is a good preservative, and likely better than any amount of ascorbic acid you could add.

    All of this talk about how to best preserve syrups by monkeying around with sugar and ethanol contents, periodic boiling, etc...  Why bother?

    Well, for me it's because I don't want to have to mix up a batch of simple syrup every single time I want to make a drink. Therefore, there is some advantage to having a simple syrup that won't go off in the refrigerator (I actually have several: white gomme, demerara gomme, 1:1 simple, 2:1 demerara, 4:1 cane, 2:1 lime, 4:1 homemade pomegranate grenadine). This is especially true for things like gomme syrup and grenadine that involve a fair amount of work to make.

    As I said above, increasing the sugar content is probably the best way to preserve your simple syrup -- especially if you are keeping it in the refrigerator. I've never been convinced that adding a few tablespoons of vodka to a pint of simple syrup would have any meaningful preservative effect on the syrup, as I don't see how it could possibly raise the alcoholic strength of the syrup enough to make a difference. I do, however, usually float a half-ounce or so of high proof spirits on the top of bottles of syrup that are going to be stored for a long time before I use them (for example, if I have two pint bottles of homemade grenadine). If the syrup is sufficiently concentrated, the spirits actually remain in a layer floating on top of the syrup rather than mixing in.

    And besides...  For me one of the rewarding things about making my own maraschino cherries/grenadine/etc is that it doesn't have preservatives in it.

    You know that sugar is a preservative, right? As are salt, oil, and alcohol?

    well...yeah...a basic 1:1 takes two minutes to make (literally).  no need to boil it.....just measure and then shake really hard for a minute.  then shake it the first few times you pour it.  its really that simple.

    The problem with 1:1 syrup is that it is not very shelf-stable. This makes it a bad idea, IMO, if you are doing any kind of infusion. Of course some infusions (citrus zest, certain spices) seem to keep relatively good flavor for quite some time on the shelf whereas others (ginger) don't last very long and still others (mint) never taste quite right for my palate.

  16. Part of the reason has to be because the Consorzio Parmigiano Reggiano inspects every single cheese, and there are Italian governmental regulations that have to be followed for the cheese to call itself Parmigiano Reggiano. For example, the cows may only be fed grass or hey, there may be requirements as to breed of cow, the cheese is made on a daily basis with the whole milk from the morning and skimmed milk from the evening, the milk is not pasteurized, the only additives allowed are salt (from soaking the formed cheese in brine for 20 days), natural whey starter and natural calf rennet, the cheese must be aged a minimum of 12 months, etc.

    Other manufacturers take various shortcuts: The curds are not cut to the same small size (which affects texture as well as facilitating faster drainage of whey) and is mechanically pressed to expell whey. The cheese is aged for a shorter time period. The cows are fed silage and/or grain. Milk from several days is combined in one batch of cheese. The milk is pasteurized. A commercial laboratory starter is used rather than a natural culture. The size of the cheese may be smaller, which results in a saltier overall product. Etc, etc, etc.

    The fact is that it takes a large dedicated setup to make cheese that can compete with Parmigiano Reggiano. It's not impossible, but the economics of competing with the Italian makers mean that most people will cut corners. It's not something you can do with a small farm and a handful of cows.

  17. I have been muddling a lot recently -- a lot.  PDT has a drink, the Pimms Rangoon which is the bane of my existence at the moment.  It involves Pimms, Lemon, Simple as well as muddled strawberries, cucumbers and mint.  Given I have probably made about 200 of these in the past few weeks I have been playing around with different methods.

    I started out with just the solid ingredients and the lemon + simple and muddled that, I tried muddling with the pimms in the tin, as well as every other permutation.  I haven't noticed any difference between muddling with 3.5 oz of ingredients vs. muddling with only 1.5 oz of ingredients.  I have noticed a difference between a) not muddling and just shaking and b) muddling with no liquid in the tin.

    Given we have pretty hefty kold draft cubes I tried once or twice making a drink, skipping the muddling and just doing an extra vigorous shake, and also tried muddling in the dry tin.  Both gave sub par results, both in texture and flavor, specifically around the mint and cucumber, the were both bland and missing the brightness muddling gave it.

    So end result -- muddling makes a difference, amount of liquid in the tin, not so much.  At least in my experience.

    I'm not surprised you found a difference between muddling and shaking, considering the nature and amount of muddled product. I'd suggest that shaking without muddling only makes sense when you are using tender herbs, and the herbs are the only solid ingredient in the shaker besides the ice. Things like cucumber and strawberry, due to their structure, need muddling to fully express their flavors (also, one is generally not concerned about potential negative effects of over-muddling, as one often is with respect to tender herbs). Also, considering that the tin presumably contains mint, strawberry and cucumber, it's likely that the it's a little crowded in there for shaking alone to get the job done.

  18. First, it is messy and difficult to muddle herbs in several ounces of liquid.

    I don't really understand that. I've been muddling mint in 6+ oz of liquid for these French Pearls without difficulty or mess.

    My experience is that the liquid has a tendency to splash around, especially if you want to muddle vigorously (e.g., if you're using thyme). It makes it difficult to "tap" the mint lightly with the muddler if you're going for a "gently bruised" effect. It makes it difficult to see exactly what you're doing to the herbs. I typically never muddle in any more than an ounce of liquid, and usually more like a half-ounce. Again, I don't think it makes much sense to muddle tender herbs like mint if you're going to be shaking the mint with ice.

    Second, if you screw something up, you can always dump the drink and start over without having to waste a few ounces of expensive liquor.

    What do you mean by "screw something up"? I'm not sure what could happen in this situation.

    Maybe you overpour something. Maybe you realize you used regular basil when you meant to use Thai basil. Maybe you just noticed that the mint leaves aren't in such great condition. Whatever. This may be more applicable to a professional setting, but I noticed a long time ago that when Audrey would give me recipes she'd say things like "half-half-two" for a drink I thought of as "two-half-half." She said the reason is that you want to make the drink using the cheapest ingredients first, so that if you catch a mistake you can dump the drink before pouring the base, which is typically the most expensive part of the drink.

    I'm not so sure I think there is any advantage to be gained from muddling tender herbs like mint when the drink will be shaken with ice and strained.  I suppose this depends on the ice you're using, but when I shake mint with ice in the shaker, I use big pieces of ice and I shake hard.  The mint is pulverised into such tiny little bits that I have to double-strain into the glass.  I'm not sure how much more muddled the mint could possibly be, or whether that would possibly be a good thing.

    Interesting question. Perhaps I need to return to the lab....

    I always muddle tough herbs like thyme. Results may vary with tender herbs depending on technique, equipment and ingredients. I have all-metal Boston shakers, do only one serving per shaker, use "Kold-Draft style at home" ice cubes, use only the mint leaves (not the stems) and I have strong hands and arms so I can shake very violently. When I double-strain, the strainer catches maybe 1.5 teaspoons worth of fine ice and mint particle slush.

  19. I suppose it depends on what you are muddling and what effect you are going for.

    Most everyone muddles herbs together with a small amount of liquid. Usually this is a liquid ingredient that is present in only small amounts (1/2 to 1 ounce) in the recipe, such as simple syrup or citrus juice. This is for several reasons: First, it is messy and difficult to muddle herbs in several ounces of liquid. Second, if you screw something up, you can always dump the drink and start over without having to waste a few ounces of expensive liquor. Third, it is useful when muddling herbs to have something to muddle the flavor into, otherwise you're mostly just bruising the herbs.

    Lime quarters and lemon quarters make their own liquid when they are muddled, so there would seem to be little advantage in adding liquid during the muddling process.

    Sometimes it's nice to muddle a lemon peel together with a bitters-soaked sugar cube to "abrade" the surface of the peel and extract extra oils. This is a trick I picked up from Gary, I think. Needless to say, liquid isn't necessarily useful in this scenario.

    I'm not so sure I think there is any advantage to be gained from muddling tender herbs like mint when the drink will be shaken with ice and strained. I suppose this depends on the ice you're using, but when I shake mint with ice in the shaker, I use big pieces of ice and I shake hard. The mint is pulverised into such tiny little bits that I have to double-strain into the glass. I'm not sure how much more muddled the mint could possibly be, or whether that would possibly be a good thing.

    For muddled citrus that is shaken with ice, it's getting plenty of contact with alcohol during the shake and I am not so sure there is any advantage to be gained by using a full measure of spirit together with the citrus while it is being muddled.

    I'm also not so sure I think temperature should make such a big difference in the range of temperatures and contact times we're talking about. However, in a home setting, there's nothing wrong with muddling, pouring in the spirits and then letting the shaker sit for several minutes so the flavors from the herbs or citrus can infuse into the alcohol. In a professional setting, I don't think there's time for that sort of thing.

  20. My main observation on doubling up is that, if one of the franchises has any further to sink, the doubled-up version will inevitably plumb new depths of suckiness. For instance, it is still possible in certain parts of the country to find a Pizza Hut that makes a palatable product. On the other hand, the drek they turn out at the Pizza Hut/KFC outposts in the name of "pizza" is invariably execrable.

    I firet noticed this in airports, where the versions of chain foods are usually a notch or two below par already. In NYC, I first noticed doubling up in neighborhoods that are predominately African American, then in tourist areas.

  21. Well... To compare specific heat: aluminum is around 0.89 J/g/K, glass is around 0.84, stainless steel is around 0.50, copper is around 0.38 and silver is around 0.23. The most relevant would be stainless steel, I suppose. Of course, most metals are a lot more dense than glass. Stainless steel is around 7.9 g/cm^3 compared to around 2.6 for common glass (there's not a tremendous range in density when it comes to glassware glass -- the range is perhaps from 2.4 - 2.8).

    Most of the time, metal cups and glasses are thinner and lighter than their glass counterparts, which means that they are likely to have a smaller thermal mass. This is why it's okay to shake or stir a cocktail with a room-temperature shaker if it's thin metal, but if it's thick glass you would like for it to be chilled.

    For rocks drinks, or drinks like juleps and swizzles where the ice and spirit are reaching thermal equilibrium, I think the thermal mass of the glass is not so important relative to what's going on between the liquid and the ice. You don't want the glass to be warm, but there's not too terribly much to be gained from using a pre-chilled glass.

  22. Yea, I like the Libbey glasses as well. Got a case for home use, and have been gradually breaking my way through them over the course of a few years. I think mine are 4.5 ounces, but could be mistaken -- they come in a variety of sizes.

    As for the effect of glassware on the temperature of the drink, it's a simple matter of physics. If the glass is cold, you benefit from having a glass with a larger thermal mass. If the glass is room temperature, you benefit from having a glass with a smaller thermal mass.

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