Steve Plotnicki

Gee you spend one night away from the computer having dinner at Taillevent and you come back to a plethora of issues to deal with. Sheesh. Let's see in order; John W. - Of course I'm describing capitalism. You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. You want all the benefits of the delicious food that competition gave you, but you don't want to have to pay the price of growth, i.e., progress. You can't have it both ways. So when you say; try to remember that what comes with that are things like no airplanes or no medications to ward off infections, both things that greedy people invented as part of a growing economy. Robert B. - No when I used the word "they," I was describing the totality of the people and their capital investment in the French food industry. Everyone from farmers, to middlemen, to chefs. My point was the entire country invested heavily in the food business when nobody else in the world was doing it and therefore lies their great advantage. But had the Kenyans invested in haricot verts in 1902, instead of 2002, the gastronomic world would be a diiferent place today. Look I had two cheeses in the U.S. recently that I would put up there with the best from France. That would have been impossible 20 years ago. Something to add to your post is the size of available restaurant spaces in Paris. There is really no equivelent of rooms that are the same size as Daniel or a place like Eleven Madison Park. Add to that the policy of turning only one seating a night, and the economics are a different ball of wax. This is why talented young chefs like Camdeborde and Barbot are in miniscule places. Even at Arpege, Laurent told me that they only hold about 50 people with the downstairs dining room at full capacity. If Passard came to NYC, he would have to serve 150 dinners a night just to make the economics work. Marcus - Yes 300 euros each. Like I said, I don't want to pass judgement on whether it's worth the money. It's hard to say whether it is or it isn't because it's a totally unique experience. After we spent 4 1/2 hours there, ny wife said, "it's dinner plus the evening entertainment." I was just looking at it from a cost/price perspective. Yesterday when we were out shopping we ran into some people we know from NYC. They are here for two weeks and they recited a drop-dead schedule of three star eating. So when I told them I had been to Arpege the night before, the women said that it used to be her favorite restaurant. And that sometimes she would come to Paris and eat both lunch and dinner there. But now that they were serving mostly vegetables, she found it hard to justify the price. Further to this point, we ate at Taillevent last night. I split the veal chop for two with somebody else in our party. Without giving away my review, we were quite pleased. But it was 106 euros. Now this chop was really slightly larger than a chop for one. It couldn't have cost them wholesale more then 15 euros. Possibly 20. Each of us got 4 slices of veal along with a chuinck of bacon, echalotte grise and some sliced mushrooms. If I have guessed the wholesale cost correctly, they have a 600%-700% markup on the chop. As I was just saying to someone in a PM, I can go to the 11 arr. to Le Chardenoux and have a slightly smaller chop with a pile of the mushroom of the day (morilles, trumpette etc.) for 25 euros or 12 1/2 euros for the portion I was served at Taillevent. Now it might not be the same quality meat, but is the Taillevent chop really worth almost 5X as much? To me this cost discrepency in price shows that the middle class in France has disappeared from the dining scene in a serious way. Yes there are gourmands who are still ploppinng down their 200-300 euros for tasting menus. But they seem to have zero customers for meals in the 100 euro range. That seems to be the predominent price point these days for restaurants in the U.S. and the U.K. Lxt - It's amazing that the people who promote socialism also complain about the mediocrity that stems from the equality that springs from it. J.W. would like France to rise to the occassion and make better green beans then Kenya based on personal pride. And he conveniently overlooks that it is money that is driving the Kenyans. Not that they aren't proud of what they do, but they wouldn't be doing it if not for the dough. If the French are going to compete at all, it will be the possibility of reclaiming the market share lost to the Kenyans that will drive them.

Alain Graillot Crozes-Hermitage, especially his La Guirade bottling, is really super wine. And it doesn' cost more than $20-$25 a bottle depdning where you are. And it is a great ager too. I have been drinking my 1990's and they are really fabulous. They will probably last another 2-3 years.

"Whatever one's philosophical, political or economic orientation may be, it's obvious that the world has become a place in which constant change is a prerequisite for prosperity or even for solvency. The great strength of French cuisine at foundation level was always that you you could go to a particular region -- or even a particular restaurant -- and know exactly what would be on the menu and what it would taste like" John Whiting has made the right point, he has just stated it from the wrong perspective. I'm not sure if he intended to draw any inferences by it. And to avoid having an argument about the inferences (intended or not, ) let me try and restate that paragraph. The key to economic stability and success is constant growth. Regardless of your business, if you can't keep up with the Jonses, i.e., keep pumping capital into your business, you eventually lose ground. There is no value judgement in that statement, it's just how a market economy works. The way around this fact of life about the business world is to own something that has significant intangeable value that can't be replaced by money. To me that is what the French did. They invested heavily in agriculture, and created a method of cooking to maximize the return on that investment. And they did it when the cost was cheap. They were so far ahead of everyone that they coasted on their advantage for 80 years of the last century. Now that the rest of the world is prepared to compete with them, they have no way to maintain superiority. And even if they wanted to, and there is also a question of desire, I think the cost of doing it would bankupt their food industry. And indeed that was starting to happen with chefs like Gagnaire and Veyrat. The cost of maintaining the high standards became prohibitive. I had dinner at Arpege last night, and although I will save the review until after I eat at Gagnaire later in the week, as I am working on a comparison of the restaurants, 300 euros is a hefty tab for a tasting menu that is mostly vegetables. My wife and I left saying the entire food cost couldn't have been more then 30-45 euros between the two of us. Even if it was 60, that is a 10X cost to price ratio. And if you want to see why French dining is in decline, just look at those numbers. If it really costs that much money to maintain the standards, how are they going to do it in the long term? I just can't get over the dichotomy of the 30 euro meal at Le Regalade, and the 300 euro meal at Arpege. Something has to be terribly wrong when the spread between the two is that large. And I think it's off at both ends. Arpege costs too much, and La Regalade costs too little. It says alot about the dining scene here. Look at the spread in NYC between a place like Daniel and Union Square Cafe. The average cover at Daniel isn't even twice what the average cover is at USC. But between Regalade and Arpege it's 10X? Has to make you wonder.

I think that John and I would be perfectly silent. That's because he would be dead before they served the food. Bux - No I was referring to the fact that Jews do not stress drinking alcoholic beverages. That doesn't mean there isn't a tradition of taking a shot of schnapps etc., but Jews that get drunk should be put into the Smithsonian.

Wilfrid - Jews can't drink whole bottles of wine by themselves. It's genetic. Hollywood - Unfortunately I won't be here. MartyL - I thought the Dujac was good for a village wine, but it was a little tight. It didn't really show the puppyfat you claim it exhibited. Jaybee - No time for La Grille. Even though I wish there were.

Because L'Affriole should have been as good as Chez Georges. If anything it should have been better. The cost of my meal at Ches Georges aside from the wine was 43 Euros and 26 were dedicated to the lamb chops. The Chez Georges meal was a good 30%-40% more enjoyable then the L'Affriole meal. I guess the point here isn't that 30 euros is a bad buy for lunch for that quality, it's that the type of cooking you and I would call interesting can't be had for 30 euros and the chefs are pinned in by the price point. I am certain that the chef at Affriole could do much better at a 50 euro price point. I should add that they had a 2000 La Vielle Juliene Chanteauneuf-du-Pape at L'Affriole for 42 euros. Not such a bad price for a wine of that caliber. It was young, but the wine is a great "normale" bottling for a CNdP,

It was the sky that made me hungry. I didn't notice it until the taxi exited the Perepherique and was headed up Avenue Grand Armee towards the Etoile. It was 8:30 in the evening and dusk this time of year in Paris is glorious. It set my mood straight. Especially after a weekend in London which was nice enough, yet I wasn't overwhelmed with a feeling of being in Europe. But one look at that blue and pink sky, and how the shops and their signs glittered beneath it finally cured me of my European blues. I hadn't quite worked out where to have dinner yet. Madame P. wasn't arriving until the morning and we had a nine star week ahead of us. So on a night of solo dining, I didn't want to do something too gastronomic. So after I arrived, I would walk over to the Virgin Megastore and browse through various food guides and find a place. One place looked good, Le Chavignol in the 17th. But when I phoned the person who answered told me the restaurant was closed. Then I thought about going over to Willi's Wine Bar. It's an old favorite of mine, with better then necessary food but the most glorious list of Rhone wines imagineable, many by the glass. Then it occurred to me, Chez Georges was just down the street off the Place Victoire and I would try that first. Chez Georges is a new old bistro. Bernard the owner told me, "George was my father. The restaurant is here since 1953 but the family came to the Place Victoire from Aveyron in 1911." And that looks about right for the place. It's classic bistro decor, but not as precious or ravishing as some of the places from the 30's. The room is long and narrow, and is frequented by many foreigners. The menu is a virtual dictionary of French bistro classics. I settled in with the carte, and the carte du vin and pondered all of the potential choices. Could I possibly have the lamb chops, a veal chop with morels and a ribsteak for dinner? Merde, it could be just one . After a few minutes Bernard came over and I asked him a question that I am certain has permanently put me in his good graces. "The Dujac Morey St. Denis, is it the village wine or the Premier Cru."? A cheap trick, yet the kind that makes them want to take care of you for the rest of the night. A few minutes later, Bernard was back at my table with a bottle of 1997 Dujac Morey St. Denis (village bottling.) I didn't know what I was going to do with a whole bottle by myself, but I figured what the hell, it's Paris. I haven't been here since April, and the staff will drink what I leave over. He also set down a plate with two thin slices of saucisson sec, and a type of radish that I had never seen before. They were long and narrow and had a slight bell shape at the bottom. And when you bit into them, they weren't completely solid. Anyone? Then a few minutes later they set down my first course. A fairly large crock of Rillettes D'Oie and a smaller crock of Cornichons. I took some rillettes on my fork and tasted them. "Fuck, is this good" is exactly what I said to myself. I then proceeded to drown myself in a tub of shredded goose mixed with it's fat sprinkled with some coarse salt and dabbed with some Dijon mustard. My main was three rib lamb chops that were perfectly rose like I ordered them, and were perfectly salty, and they came with a large pile of stupendously good haricots vert (green beans) that were lightly sauteed in butter. Loads of flavor to those beans. I am normally not a big veggie guy, and it is likely when you dine with me that you will see my veggies left over. But here I cleaned my plate. Nothing left but a plate with a few gnawed over boned from the chops. Dessert was a nice size plate of beautifully perfumed Fraise des Bois (wild strawberries) with a scoop of intensely flavored vanilla ice cream. I walked out of the place feeling like I was in heaven. It was all too simple, but all too good. It was a friendly reminder of how the French got it right in the first place. And that good traditional food is still available in the places that spend the right amount of time in sourcing ingredients, and care about cooking them the right way.

Bux - Your proffer actually makes the case for the decline. Why else would a chef who is competent enough to run a multi-star be operating a pint sized bistro on the outskirts of Paris? That chioce was made only after the decline started. My lunch today is a perfect example of what is wrong with gastronomy over here. We decided to have lunch at L'Affriolle on rue Malar. I had read so many good things about it over the years (never having been there) and we just happened to be walking by so we stopped for lunch. It was nice enough. I had a Creameaux of Haricots de Tarbois avec Foie Gois (cream of white bean soup with a thin sliver of foie on top) and Thon Polee avec Grains du Sesame et Courgette and Aubergine (cylinders of tuna in a sesame crust.) Madame P. had the Gaspacho avec Crabbe and the Rouget Poelle avec Lard (red mullet sauteed with bacon). It was all fine enough, and good value for a set meal at 30 euros for both courses and dessert (blanc manger avec vanille et pistache for me and sable avec fraises for Madame.) But midway through the main course my wife gave it the kisss of death, "there's no reason to come back here." Here is one of the well regarded modern bistros. In every local guidebook there is a heart, meaning they love the place, listed next to the entry. And they are stuck in an environment that serves possibly 30 covers at each meal and in a 30 euro menu. No other city in the world is stuck with that type of dining environment or price point. I think when you are serving 30 euro menus, there is only so much you can do.

I think that Lander's article, poorly crafted and argued as it may be, hits one overall theme which is that France gastronomy seems to be standing still when compared to the pace of change everywhere else. The detrioration is simply put, and I think my dinner experience of last night (I'm in Paris as I write this,) shows this point best. I was eating at an old line bistro (which I will write up later today) and having a heck of a good meal. After dinner the owner came to chat with me about wine and he asked me how dinner was. I told him that the haricots vert were delicious with an abundance of flavor. I asked him if they were special in any way. He said they come from Kenya. "Kenya?" I asked. He shrugged his shoulders and said, "that's the business these days." I think this pretty much sums up the French dilemma. Smart investors in other places are growing world class ingredients. And not only are they being delivered to other countires aside from France, which means that France doesn't have a foothold on "deliciousness" anymore, the bar has been raised for growers in France. Combine that with the fact that the children of people in agricultural businesses often opt for a more modern and urban lifestyle then hairoct vert grower, you can see from where the crisis stems. We in the U.S., and in the U.K. and in other countries where tradition and governmental interference damaged the quality of our food, are now in the second generation of people who are trying to revive our artisinal food industries. France is still on their downward cycle. And I'm not sure that they will start to push the ball back up the hill, before it falls to the bottom.

I think he is making the classic argument against the French which is, they have relied on the superiority of their "brands" for so long, and their reputation, that their advantage over the rest of the world has deteriorated. People are making as good or better products, and capable chefs abound everywhere. But while he chastiises them for their malaise, he doesn't ever explain why it has taken hold which is where the interesting discussion lies.

Okay, I will admit that pre La Varenne, British cuisine was every bit as good, or even better then French cuisine. But then you have to admit it's been in the crapper for nearly 500 years. And I am writing this from the Kinko's in Mayfair and it gives me great joy.

Next time you want oxtails on the menu just print it as "Queue de Boeuf" and when people ask tell them it's a "Line of Beef." If they bother to ask, "where pray tell on the cow does that come from?" just say it's from the rear portion of the cow. Nobody will know and they will all love it.

It's really a lovely place. I went a Bat Mitzvah there about 6 years ago and haven't been since. I went a few times when Edna Lewis was cooking there and it was both good and fun. I wish some top quality chef would buy the place and take a chance on it being a destination a restaurant.

I ate at La Palme d'Or at least once a year, sometimes twice, for the last 6-7 years. I always thought it had the best cooking on the coast, post the late 80's, early 90's peak in nouvelle cuisine. Most years it was great, cooking at what I will describe as a 2 1/2 star level, but some years I found the menu a little boring. But they are good at preparing things off menu. There must be a changing of the guard going on because recently I saw a cookbook featuring recipes from Provencal restaurants and Christian Willer was featured along with his "Chef de Cuisine." They also have a good wine list and you will find wines fron Niellon and Coche Dury on their list. I think the heyday for top quality cooking on the coast has come and gone nearly 10 years ago. Back then you had Verge, Outhier, Rostaing (the old man) and Maximin in his prime. It was amazing to spend a week there.

UK retailers rate their own inventory sometimes. They review the vintage as well. I haven't seen the Morrell ratings and in fact, I threw my catalog away so I can't tell you if they are accurate/honest or not.

Cones, I always go there right after eating at the Rrrizzahtoerhea. Seriously, Cones is good? When we were renovating our apartment a few years back and we sublet in Tribecca, I used to walk over there in the evening. It was good but it didn't rock my world. I guess I have to go try it again. It's also a good place for dessert after a leisurely lunch at Shopsin's.

In general, people who are fanatical about wine would probably agree to the following about each of the three you mentioned. Parker's ratings are biased in favor of powerful, overripe, overextracted and oaky wines. When he gives a wine a high rating, it almost always impacts the price at retail. At the low to medium end, a Gigondas made in the style he prefers can sell in the low $30 range where most quality Gigondas sell for about $10 less. His impact on market price can be felt much more at the high end and on low production wines, especially wines where there is a secondary market where they are resold by collectors at auction. In fact the auction market revolves almost solely on his ratings. The Wine Spectators ratings are worthless to serious collectors except for the rare occassion where they get serious about it and champion a wine. In those instances, it's worth taking note, but you have to discount their recommendation by 20-30%. Even wines that they annoint as "Wine of the Year" like 1998 Ornallaia and 1996 Ducru Beaucaillou are good wines, but sort of leave people scratching their heads as to why they are WOTY. But the title added 50% to the market price of Ornalaia, from around $100 to $150. Otherwise, I'm not sure how much they affect prices. I think there are two places where they make the most impact. Helping people distinguish between hundreds of indistinguishable California chardonnays and mid-level cabernet sauvignons which are already overpriced and need help selling through to consumers, and articles about entire regions who did well in a particular vintage. I understand from certain retailers that the WS is driving sales of 1997 Brunello nased on their review of the vintage which means, people who don't normally buy Brunello are buying. Tanzer is probably the most balanced of the three, but lacking any significant personality. Only on the rarest of occassions do his ratings move prices at retail. In the time I've been collecting wine, I can recall it happening twice. Hope this helps. .

I'm going to be there later in the fall. I've already booked Guido. And I've eaten at Cesare a number of times with success, and Gardin de Felicin which I thought was mediocre. So out of your list aside from those three, what would be your top choice? A deep wine list is of importance as the people I am traveling with are in it as much for the wine as they are for the truffles. Possibly even more.

Robert Brown recently posted on a meal at Moulin de Lourmarin. The other restaurants should have posts about them on the France board, although I'm not sure how recent the meals are.

I love eating in the cafe. When I was there in 1999, I ordered the Niman Ranch ribeye and it was super. But one day for lunch in December 1998 I just wandered in and got myself a table. Every city should have a place that cooks like this. Thanks for the great report.

Considering how everyone spends half of their time in the Hamptons eating, there is a dearth of articles on the local food scene. To sit on your deck in the middle of a hot July day and read about steakhouses in NYC is about as appealing as reading about Eskimos ice fishing. Considering all of the local farms and purveyors of local fish and other food products, there is zero written about the quality of the local food which is great. But there are no shortage of publications showing pictures of tycoons of industry and their model girlfriends at the polo matches. 'Tis a shame. Nick - A Cote de Boeuf doesn't look like anything more than a thick rib steak to me. And I don't know of anywhere that serves it for less then two people. There are three approaches I've seen. The bone trimmed away and the steak sort of rounded to make it neat, the same sort of preperation but with the bone cut by a sawblade so it doesn't protrude from the ovel shape of the steak, or completely untrimmed with a huge bone sticking out. The best cote de boeuf I know, at Loulou in Cagnes-sur-Mer who gets their meat from Boucherie Marbeuf in Paris (the Lobel's of Paris?) serves the second preparation. But the best version I've had here is from Lobel's where I've asked them to cut me by hand a two bone thick rib chop that isn't trimmed at all and the bone not shortened. It's a hell of a piece of meat and the meat attached to the bone is almost a meal unto itself. You can easily serve 3-4 people with one of those as it must be well at least 4 inches thick.

Fat Guy - Your steak article for Hamptons magazine was excellent. I never saw it in the magazine, maybe because I don't think of them as having good food articles . But that's the kind of all encompassing food writing that we need more of. I think the no piercing rule is overrated. Yes you lose some juice, but that can't be the difference between a juicy steak and a dry one or else you started with less then top quality to begin with.

Yes but in London they pronounce filet (as in fill-ay) with a hard T (as in fill-ette) all of the time. In fact I pronounce that way myself when I'm waiting for my food to come. "Is the fill-ette on shed-due-ul" (filet on schedule for those who need a translation from English to English.) Thank god I don't have to say is the valet delivering my filet . Macrosan - Haut Brion the wine in question is one of the more easily distinguishable wines because it tastes like gravel. But I don't think he guessed the vintage. The person who did it is studying for his Masters of Wine. So he's a good candidate to get it right blind. Peter - I've been to the Isola Comacina in 1983. Did they still do that crazy fire ceremony there?

1982 Krug - Raw fish 1985 Giacosa Barbaresco Santa Stefano - Charcuterie 1989 Raveneau Chablis Clos - Warm fish 1985 Ponsot Griottes Chambertin - Meat Lisa had a bottle of Closel Savenierres Molleaux she wanted to open but I yelled uncle and they were all pissed off at me. We actually had room for one more person but Sasha didn't cancel until the last minute or else I would have invited you to come. Next time. But the wines were stunning.