rlibkind

Elmora Avenue remains a highly interesting food street, both for Goodman's and other Jewish spots and for Hispanic. I'll respectfully disagree a bit with dbrociner about Goodman's, at least as it was when I last visited about a year ago. For many years the restaurant (open only for breakfast and lunch, closed Sunday) was owned and operated two brothers Julie and (I believe) Abe Goodman. When they retired about 20-25 years ago they sold it to a Greek and trained him and his people very well. I find that nothing has changed, not the corned beef, not the pastrami, nothing! They still buy their meat from the same supplier, they cook it the same way, and take it out of the same steam cabinets to slice when you order it. Even their menu system which is supplemented by paper plates attached to the side wall with items and prices hasn't changed (other than the prices, of course). Goodman's is not kosher, but two other eateries are. Last time I checked, the Dunkin Donuts at Elmora & Grand was was certified kosher. A block down Elmora from Goodman's is Jerusalem, which serves kosher pizza and Israeli style salads, hummus, etc., cafeteria style. On the other side of Elmora Avenue from Goodman's is Elmora Bagels. The store has been there since the 1960s, I think, and is operated by the same family that ran the late, great Watson's Bagels of Newark and, later, Irvington. They also operate a kosher bakery at Millburn Mall off Vauxhall Road in Union, the same strip mall that's home to Syd's Hot Dogs, the hot dog of my youth at its original location on Chancellor Avenue in Newark, and a hot dogthat remains my favorite. The Millburn Mall is also within an easy drive of Ikea, no more than 15 minutes if there are no traffic jams. (Elmora Avenue is more like a 10 minute trip, tops. Do make the trip to Elmora Avenue, and also to Spirito's (but I don't think they're open for lunch; just dinner). Another good spot for Italian, both sandwiches, pizza and plates, would be Cioffi's on Stuyvesant Avenue in Union Center; again, not as close to you as Elmora Avenue, but only 15 minutes away. They make a pretty good Italian style hot dog, too. In warm weather, after eating at Spirito's, you'll want some Italian ice (what they call water ice here in Philadelphia) to fill in the cracks in your stomach. About a block away, on Fourth Avenue (Spirito's is on Third) is a tiny shack with two or three flavors of ice for sale (lemon is the preferred variety). It's better than any water ice I've ever had in South Phila. (But I may be biasted; like Syd's hot dogs, it's a food from my childhood.) For take-home Italian delicacies, try Barone's on Third Avenue. If after work you're in the mood for beef, and lots of it, there's the 640 Club at 640 South Street in Elizabeth: steaks, roast beef, chops. Years ago, when doctors still smoked and ate red meat, this is where they'd have lunch, because it was smack dab between the city's three hospitals. Enjoy!

Yeah, Nedicks definitely served a pork/beef dog, totally different from Marathon's/Sabretts. And thanks for reminding me about the mustard/relish combo. As for hand pumped, that reminds me. It's been at least 10 years since I was last at Nathan's in Coney Island, but do they still have the hand pumped pineapple drink? I loved that one.

No, it's White Rose. There used to be any number of similar operations in NJ with similar names. I used to frequent the "White Diamonds" in Union on Stuyvesant Ave. near the Irvington line and another in Roselle on First Avenue. I always regarded the burgers at these joints not such much as beef burgers but meat-flavored onion sandwiches. They'd basically lay some very thinly sliced onions on a grill, place a ball of ground beef on top, press the beef flat into the onions, cook, then flip, then cook some more. Every once in a while I duplicate this at home; all I'm missing are the same type of buns the Whites used. White Rose White Manna White Diamond I found what I thought was going to be a similar one in South Jersey, Roney's, on Rt. 130 and Haddon Ave. in Westmont. Close, but no cigar. My homemades are better. Anyone know of any others? I've yet to find anything liked it in my adopted city of Philadelpia.

Thanks for the history, Fat Guy. Didn't realize Papaya King was that ancient. The stores definitely had a different feel. I always used to indulge at the Penn Station Nedicks before taking the train home to NJ in the early '60s. I'll have to indulge again on my next trip up from Phila.

I'm definitely dating myself with the next comment... Although the hot dog and bun are completely different, and it was orange drink rather than papaya, don't the two Papaya doggie huts resemble the old Nedick's? Could I be mistaken in observing that a couple even occupy the same real estate.

SSOH isn't a bad deal when compared to anywhere other than gliding on a boat over an oyster bed! I will have to try those Stellar Bays.

The Radisson is what used to be the Barclay on Rittenhouse Square. Katie's recommendations observation about your being in the midst of restaurant riches is right on target. Actually, the Radisson is not right on Rittenhouse Square, it's a block off. It's the old Warwick Hotel, at 17th and Locust. The Sheraton is on the Square, a converted office buiilding that houses Bleu and Potcheen as far as restaurants. The Barclay is nothing at all, as far as hotels; it's a condo building that will house a Starr establishment before long, if everything holds true. I'll third Katie's comments about you being in the middle of it all. I'll also third her recommendations of Lacroix at the Rittenhouse Hotel for the ultra-superb option, and Matyson (19th between Chestnut and Market) for the average plus option. Matyson is another in the lineup of excellent BYOBs that the Philadelphia area is blessed with. I'll also agree that Chinatown is a good option for lunch, as is the Reading Terminal, of course. You are welcome to PM me as well for supplementary info. I can't keep up with these hotel changes! Thanks for reminding me of which is which! I've stayed at Warwick hotels in NYC and Brussels, but now Philadelphia's Warwick is no longer a Warwick!

The Radisson is what used to be the Barclay on Rittenhouse Square. Katie's recommendations observation about your being in the midst of restaurant riches is right on target. If you're into raw oysters and good, basic fish, Sansom Street should be at the top of your list. Plus you can get real snapper soup there. Keep in mind that when you're at the Flower Show at the Convention Center, you are basically in Chinatown (in fact, the Convention Center construction hemmed in this community's west side) which offers plenty of options for inexpenive lunches (dim sum) and dinner. The Convention Center is also directly across the street from the Reading Terminal Market and all it offers (closes 6 p.m.; although usually closed on Sundays, it frequently opens for the Flower Show). Both Chinatown and the Market do tend to get overwhelmed during Flower Show, though.

The space (built as an extension of Nelson Rockefeller's townhouse) is gorgeous with that interior waterfall. But hurry up. They'll be moving to new quarters a few blocks away in less than a year, I believe.

Yeah, they do tend to overdue the dip in Chicago.

Thanks for the explanation, Michael. As for the LBF/Fountain arithmetic example you gave, it would be nice if there was a way to indicate such an aberration to readers. Some people would read the guide and decide that by virtue of a single point, one restaurant is better than another.

The quote was taken from the recipe section of Juniper Restaurant's website.

Rich, I guess we'll agree to disagree. I think the Italian roast beef sandwiches in Phila. (at least as represented by Tommy) and Chicago versions are quite similar, much more alike than different. What difference there is predominantly resides in the fixings rather than the beef and its preparation. Here, it's aged provolone and greens; there, Giardinera. The other major difference is in perception. In Chicago, the Italian beef sandwich is a matter of civic pride. Here, it's just another great sandwich.

I love Tommy's pork, but I agree, rabe would be much better than spinach. Am I missing something or dense? I don't understand your statement about a "waste of time and money"? Please 'splain.

Rich, have you tried Tommy DiNic's roast beef? If you haven't, you should.

Nothing can improve upon that fresh poached fish, chromedome. My wife is not an avid fish lover; her preference was probably buttressed by spending a summer at an international summer school in Oslo, where the students were fed fish every day, except Wednesday, when whale was served. (Think Swiss steak, she said.) However, on a visit to an island near Bergen to visit relatives, her uncle went out onto the water and caught a fresh torsk, which her aunt then promptly cooked. My wife said it's one of the few fish she truly enjoyed. So, as you note, freshness is everything.

Chez Napoleon: Tasty enough. Nothing special, but well executed. Although I occasionally indulge in tripe, I passed both that and brains up on my November visit. Instead I got one of the steaks (sirloin, I believe) with onions and blue cheese on top, cooked as ordered. You wouldn't confuse the meat with Luger's, but it was tasty and not too tough. It is a homey place (allegedly an 82-year-old grand mere handles the stove duties), small but comfortable. Although the owners are complaining (including on their web site) that their business is threatened by the 9/11 dropoff, I found a busy pre-theater business when I was there Thanksgiving Week.

Thanks for the proper spelling of Giardinera, Katie!

California wine grape growers recognize opportunity when they see it: they're buying land in the Finger Lakes. Good land for grapes in the Finger Lakes sells for $3,000 an acre vs. $65,000 in Sonoma and $200,000 in Napa. Here's an article about it.

Haven't been there, but was at Chez Napoleon in November. They still have brains and tripe on the menu.

Tommy says it all!

Or perhaps he knows it better than conventional wisdom. I am not sure I agree that he does, but time will tell. this ludicrous, witch hunt is most distasteful. Paul, I don't regard it as a witch hunt to disagree with the man's opinions about the relative merits of rib steak vs. filet of tenderloin. I concur that some posters have vented quite a bit, but I don't think you can characterize my analysis thusly. I simply believe he is wrong, based on my own repeated tastings of both cuts.

I've had Italian beefs in Chicago on many occasions, and what makes it unique isn't the beef. It's the gardeneria (spelling?), that vinegary mix of veggies to spread on the sandwich or eat as a side. I think, however, you should get yourself down to the Reading Terminal Market and go directly to Tommy DiNic's. Though Tommy is justly famous for his roast pork, I think you'll find his beef comes the closest in Philadelphia to your ideal.

SG: Do give it another try. My only complaint about the oysters is that the shucker's technique is to crack the lip, rather than work the hinge. In some respects, this is an easier approach, and more likely to avoid loss of liquor if your not perfect, but it can leave occasional bits of shell in with the oyster. One would hope that at an oyster house the shucker would have the necessary expertise to work the hinge. Maybe he was in training. The $5 for half a dozen deal is only 5-7 p.m., and only for the Long Islands. all other oysters are at the regular price, which is $2+. I tried the Cape May salts earlier this season, and while okay, I prefer the Maine belons if I'm not doing the happy hour thing. But the Long Islands were everything I want in an oyster. There's also a similarly good deal in raw clams for happy hour. As for the fried littlenecks you reported as rubbery, I don't doubt that. In my experience, fried littlenecks are always rubbery; it's the nature of the hard clam, to my mind. When I want fried clams, I want soft-belly clams, a.k.a. "steamers". I looked for them on the menu but they didn't have them last night; sometimes they do. In fact, I'm not sure fried clams in any form were on the menu. Fried oysters and calamari, yes, but I don't recall fried clams. The menu, of course, changes according to what's available. Ludja: Ute Lemper was out-of-sight! She and Weill were made for each other. Right after her Orchestra appearance she opened a NYC cabaret gig and knocked 'em dead.

This whole string started with the quote from Juniper's web site above. And that's what I'm coming back to, regardless of the relative merits of Cough Medicine Sorbet and Corned Beef Powder. That man does not know steak!