Jim D.

Yes, he is the person I have been dealing with. I asked him if people at Chocovision had tried the machine recently (thinking it might be a "bad batch" of control cards since no other explanation makes any sense), and he said he himself had used the machine last weekend and the temperature feature worked. He concluded by asking, "What do you suggest we do?" I am non-plussed by the situation. I don't want to go through the hassle (and expense) of shipping another Rev 2 back to them, and certainly I can use the machine as it is, but if there is a feature, it ought to work. I guess if I owned the company, I would get my engineers to work on the issue (since obviously I have no motive to make this story up).

For small batches of chocolate I use a Chocovision Revolation 2 tempering machine. I have been pleased with it, but am having one problem and am wondering if anybody else has experienced this. There is a feature by which, once the chocolate has reached the default tempering point (which for dark choc. is somewhere in the upper-80 F. range--I don't recall the exact figure right now), the user can press and hold down a button that will raise the temp. I do this to get my dark to 90 degrees so that it flows better. Once the user releases the button, however, the display is supposed to return to the actual temp. of the chocolate, and will then rise as the temp. gets to 90. What my machine does is to change the displayed temp. as I hold the button until 90 is shown (correct behavior), and then it stays at 90 (does not return to the actual temp.). This may seem a small matter, but it is impossible to tell the actual temp. of the chocolate without using a thermometer--which more or less defeats the purpose of an automatic tempering machine. I have gotten a new control card for the machine, and that did not fix the problem. Then I got a new machine, and the same thing happens. It seems very unlikely that I just happened to get three bad control cards in a row, and Chocovision is at a loss as to what to do. So I am wondering if anyone else using this machine has noticed this behavior--or has noticed the machine operating correctly as far as raising the temp. goes. Thanks for any help.

There's very little left between the rows, if you've applied the acetate correctly. Here's some pics: This one has the acetate on - you scrape down firmly and it forces all of the chocolate out. You can see it's slightly thicker at this end, my technique isn't quite perfect And I leave a lot of mess on the sides and away comes the acetate. these are from a little photo tutorial I put together on my facebook page: https://www.facebook...01914679&type=3 As an extra point: you can see some of the filling in the second picture - the chocolate was setting up as I took the photo before I put the acetate on and it did exactly what I described earlier - pushed into the filling and pushed it out. Chris Very help, esp. the photos. The bottoms are very nice. I'll also take a look at the Facebook tutorial. Do you have a suggestion as to where I could find the appropriate kind of acetate? Thanks for your help. Jim

agree with PastryGirl - you just have to work faster When I cap the molds, I usually have the acetate on the mold ASAP after the chocolate goes over, tap it a couple of times then acetate. It's more important (to me) to get the bottoms looking beautiful and have maybe one or two that aren't perfect than to have the chocolate thickening - if you have thickening chocolate and try to put acetate over it, the chocolate will force your filling out of the shells (that's the voice of experience ) acetate method is awesome, but will be just as frustrating to start with It leaves a beautiful shiny base though and is well worth it. Chris I'm interested in the acetate method and have read the thread and watched the video. But I am still puzzled as to how one deals with the chocolate between the rows of cavities--how do you get it off the mold if you are waiting until the choc. has set up to remove the acetate?

Could you explain a little more what you mean by "beauty coats"? I have the same goal in mind, but they don't end up being beautiful. When I add any choc. later, it just creates bumps and lumps.

Thanks for your idea. I saw that thread and was intrigued. I will have to get some acetate sheets. What happens with the chocolate that is smeared between the rows of cavities--how do you get that off the mold? Meanwhile I had a thought about my technique and am inclined to believe it is too much filling in the cavities. There isn't enough chocolate covering and so the too-thin layer tends to get scraped off. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense--the cavities are perfectly level with the rest of the mold, so should not be getting scraped below that level.

Continuing with my issues over closing chocolates. I have now made 8 different pralines. My technique for casting and filling the molds is improving, but closing remains a big problem. I am including an embarrassing photo showing the issues all too clearly: As can be seen, even the chocolates that turn out without "feet" have rough bottoms. And I don't know what is going wrong. It's (1) the consistency of the chocolate, or (2) the tools I am using, or (3) the filling of the molds--overfilled or underfilled, or (4) something else. I apply a full layer of chocolate to the entire mold and use a small spatula to make sure all cavities are covered, waiting a bit for the choc. to settle into the cavities.. I then take a drywall scraper or a long flat spatula and attempt to clean off the top of the mold (at this point I am not worrying about the sides). Sometimes I get a good sweep of the scraper and the tops look fairly good, then a closer look reveals little nicks in the chocolates or actual holes in the covering. So I repair the holes with a fresh bit of choc., but by then the choc. is beginning to set, so I conclude that saving the pralines is more important than getting a smooth bottom. Thus the results in the photo. I should add that trimming off the feet is not a big deal, and the chocolates turn out looking fine--except for those ugly bottoms. I am also having success with unmolding. After I started "greasing" the molds with a little melted cocoa butter, I haven't had a single problem. It takes only a few minutes and makes all the difference in the world. Any suggestions for the closing issue would be most welcome.

You are right that closing is a larger problem for me. Today I did some more work, and the filling of molds is going better. I tempered by hand and got the temp higher than in the past, so that helped. Closing is still an issue--rough edges, not always a pretty sight on the bottom of the chocolate. One interesting insight, however: I did the Notter mint praline with a chocolate "cracker" on the bottom. It's a fantastic recipe, but it's quite a production, especially since the crackers have to be just the right size to fit in the mold. Having that cracker on the bottom made closing even worse than usual since the cavities were probably more full than they should have been. But after the scraper took too much chocolate off the bottoms and left holes, I added another layer to patch what I had done (my language was not very polite at that point), then gave up, and put the mold in the refrigerator. Twenty minutes later, most of the chocolates popped out of the mold without any effort (the rest came out with a few bangs). So having extra chocolate on the bottom doesn't keep the pralines from unmolding. It does make a terrible mess.

Thanks for that tip. That area is a real problem for me.

I guess I don't yet have your skill (or your equipment). The problem occurs more in the second scraping--that is, after the mold is filled, tapped, turned upside down, emptied, then turned right side up. By then the chocolate has begun to harden and the mess tends to occur. That procedure certainly takes more than a few seconds.

With dark choc., the test firms up in ca. 2 minutes (starts to look "right" in about a minute, getting that matte look as opposed to untempered, which stays shiny and liquid); with milk, it takes several minutes, maybe as much as 4-5. In your procedure, about how long does it take before your choc. gets too thick to work with? I realize that you are undoubtedly much quicker than I am. I have to reach a balance between continuing to clean off the mold on one hand and, on the other hand, having the choc. get thick enough to become a hindrance to further cleaning (in other words, it makes more of a mess than is worth the effort). Jim

It's about 70 degrees F.

Most of the time I am using a Chocovison machine for tempering. I followed Peter Greweling's suggestion for adding cocoa butter to thin out chocolate that is too viscous--so I don't think the mere addition of cocoa butter should make the choc. tend toward overcrystallization. The machine calls for putting in the seed choc. after all the choc. has melted; it lowers the temp. to 90 degrees F., then tells you to take out the seed, then continues to lower the temp depending on the type of choc. I would estimate that only a few ounces of seed melt. The machine allows for the possibility of raising the final working temp of the choc., and I plan to try getting dark choc. up to 90 degrees F. (Callebaut recommends higher working temps on the extra bittersweet package). Yesterday I tempered some dark choc. by hand, using the partial melting procedure that Greweling also mentions--removing the choc. from over the hot water before all was melted, then stirring to melt the rest. I did, however, find one glitch in tempering choc. by hand: by the time you test the choc. for tempering, its temp has lowered. In any case, that batch of choc. was like the machine-tempered choc. The viscosity is fine when I am spreading it on the mold; it's just that it coats the scraper rather rapidly and becomes firm so that it's practically impossible to clean off as quickly as one has to operate. I don't know what is causing this problem, though I agree it sounds like overcrystallization. It's certainly not that it is sitting too long in the machine because I make one mold at a time, and as soon as the choc. is ready, I pour it into the mold. As a temporary solution to the utensil mess, I am going to have several scrapers ready. And Pastrygirl's suggestion that the scraper be positioned perpendicular to the mold (although not what most people say) seemed to help. Also helpful was the idea I found somewhere of scraping half of the mold, then reversing it and scraping the other half; in that way you don't drag the choc. across so many cavities.

Pastrygirl, Thanks for the encouragement. Since I promised my sister three different chocolates for her party next week, I have no choice but to press on. And if there is an undertaking that brings out one's OCD tendencies more than chocolatiering, I don't want to know what it is. I guess what bothers me the most is that when something unusual happens with chocolate, you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is some reason for it, but there are so many variables and so many unknowns that it is sometimes impossible to figure it out. I have done a lot of computer programming, and in that field, unusual things go wrong, but you can be confident that if you work hard enough, you will figure it out. With chocolate, maybe yes, maybe no. Jim

Chris, Thanks for all your suggestions. I appreciated the insight that adding cocoa butter might be causing my chocolate to thicken sooner. I just watched the video of Greweling making rabbits. Unless it was a video timing trick, he seems to be using the same bowl of quite fluid chocolate the whole time. Mine starts thickening as soon as it hits the mold, sticking to the scraper immediately. Maybe I should return to using the Callebaut without adding cocoa butter to see what happens. But I am getting very nice and thin shells at present. I do work on one mold at a time, but your idea about heating the molds is also worth trying. Sometimes my chocolate acts as if you had dropped a frozen truffle center into it (which I actually did, with the result being probably the thickest truffle coating the world has ever seen). Jim

Yes, I have read about that argument over whether or not to wash. I must confess that I can't yet clean enough of the chocolate off (in the process of making the chocolates) and must wash them. I use hot water, usually no soap. I did plan to try a version of what you describe, however, the next time I do some work, namely, "greasing" the molds with a little melted cocoa butter. A number of people recommend this. Just to make the whole situation more ridiculous: Today I unmolded some plain chocolates (no decoration, but a fairly intricate mold), and they came out without a hitch. As far as I know, I did nothing different from yesterday, when a batch were the most difficult I have ever unmolded. Go figure! Thanks for your suggestions.

Thanks for the perpendicular suggestion. I think that may help. Could you estimate how clean your molds are when you finish scraping? I've seen videos where the molds are almost as clean as they were before use (as in: ), others where there is some thin covering of chocolate.

Thanks for those tips. I knew you would have some good ideas. Responses to the two paragraphs above: So you put the molds with the choc. shells in the refrigerator before you fill them? I had thought that shells and filling were supposed to be at room temp. Greweling even calls for warming the shells a bit before filling them--so that the bottoms will stick to the sides, he says. For the cocoa butter: Using the microwave I partially melted the CB in the plastic bottle, then shook it (as many people advise), then poured out the melted portion into a small plastic cup, which I use to store it. When I am ready to use it, I melt the CB gently over warm water and use it to decorate. I think it is still in temper as it begins to harden quite soon. I got a heating pad to keep it fluid, and I am sure the heating pad is not warm enough to take the CB out of temper (it's barely warm enough to keep it fluid). After last night's bad experience with unmolding, I am now fairly sure that the CB decoration is not the issue since I had the worst experience yet with unmolding undecorated chocolates. Again, they all eventually came out, but I think it's fair to say I have now given polycarbonate molds the ultimate test of sturdiness. And yes, I did clean the molds and polish them with a cotton cloth before I began. I think next I am going to try using a little CB to polish them before starting. I must say this process is very discouraging. There are so many variables and a lot of guesswork involved. Jim

Thanks you very much for that information. It really helps.

I am a beginner at molding chocolates (have made about 10 batches) and have some questions on technique. I realize that practice is required, and I think I am getting a bit better at the process, but am still having some issues and so seeking advice from those with more experience. I apologize for the length of the questions and will appreciate any help at this busy time of year for confectioners. I find cleaning off the mold (both when initially filling the mold and especially when capping the chocolates) a problem. I have a long flat spatula as well as a broad scraper (a drywall tool actually), and with one of those I can usually get most of the chocolate off the top and sides of the mold, but find that as time passes, the chocolate thickens (a sign that it is tempered, I suppose) and sticks to the scraper, which therefore removes less chocolate, tending to make a mess of the mold that I had mostly cleaned off. So I placed a heavy pot nearby and scraped the blade on the edge of that, but still the chocolate built up too much on the blade. If I stop to put down the scraper and clean it off, the chocolate hardens too rapidly in the mold. So do others have any technique for cleaning off the blade quickly and thoroughly? I have watched several videos that show experts doing this, and they appear to have no trouble at all. I have added cocoa butter (around 7%) to the chocolate (Callebaut, which I know tends to be rather viscous), and that helps keep the chocolate liquid longer, but still have the problem. I should add that I have succeeded in making some nice and thin shells (the cocoa butter helped with that), but with the chocolate left on the top of the mold, I am getting "feet" on the pralines (which does not bother me too much, since I have a little knife that trims them off easily, but sometimes they make unmolding difficult). Leveling the bottoms of the chocolates is the most difficult part of the job. As I try to scrape the extra chocolate off the mold, the blade drags chocolate with it, making the bottoms rough in texture. If I keep trying to smooth them, the situation gets worse since some of the filling can be dragged out of the cavities. I end up patching the places where the chocolate is gone, and that makes it worse. I left the chocolate on the mold in one case, and the bottoms were smoother, but unmolding was a nightmare. I am wondering if the chocolate is too thin and I need to wait a few minutes. The problem is that there isn't a lot of time to think and try different techniques as the couverture is hardening quickly. Which brings me to the unmolding issue. I have read many threads on this forum and elsewhere about this problem and realize that it is quite common. When I don't do any decorating of the mold with cocoa butter, the pralines often release without a problem, but the batches where I used cocoa butter were a different story: some chocolates came out of the molds with no difficulty, others required much effort. All of them did finally come out without any damage, but what a job it was! I am fairly certain the chocolate is in temper. I leave the molds at room temp. for about 15 minutes, then put them in the refrigerator for 15-20 minutes. If they stick after repeated refrigeration, I put them in the freezer for a few minutes and that often helps. Eventually I get them all out, but it is a major issue. The last problem has to do with decorating the molds. I like the simple look of lines of cocoa butter (or chocolate) crisscrossing the praline. I watched a video from a British source named Keylink (excellent series of videos on every aspect of chocolate making), and the instructor just waved a cone of cocoa butter over the mold and all went well. When I did it, the cocoa butter came out sporadically with some good lines, others interrupted by little blobs and spaces with no cocoa butter. Considering that the cavities have sides, I think making lines is a challenge, but it is one that others have conquered. Any ideas what I could be doing wrong? As I said earlier, I will be very grateful for any suggestions. Jim D.

I have been using some recipes in Ewald Notter's book and have come across a puzzle. In two recipes (key lime pralines, page 178, and mint pralines, page 186) he uses what he calls a "cracker," more like a cookie, made of chocolate and feuilletine, which eventually becomes the base of the praline. This part of both recipes calls for chocolate, cocoa butter, feuilletine (or corn flakes as a substitute), and butter. But he never mentions adding the butter. Instead he calls for adding the cocoa butter twice. I would assume the second mention is meant to be the butter, but at that point in the recipe he specifically says "Add the liquid cocoa butter..." after he has called for adding it previously. Has anyone tried either of these recipes or have a suggestion as to what was intended? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks. That sounds delicious. I like raspberry and kirsch together very much. I see that you use both fondant and chocolate.

I just tried some lemon juice in the pear fondant. It improved things, but more of it, and the mixture starts tasting of lemon. When you have some time, could you let me know some of the fondant fillings you use? Greweling has a mint one that looks interesting, but not too much else.

I thought I would provide an update on today's experiments: I made the Greweling pear ganache with white chocolate. The pear flavor comes through much better, but it is still weak. So my next thought is to decrease the amount of chocolate and add an equivalent amount of butter (which this recipe does not include at all), on the theory that both choc. and butter will cause the ganache to thicken, but butter has a much more neutral flavor. I also plan to increase the amounts of pear purée and eau-de-vie slightly. The other plan was to try fondant, so I made some fondant (Greweling recipe). Although I removed it from the heat at exactly the prescribed temp, it got a bit too firm. Anyhow I melted it and added pear purée and eau-de-vie. I'm waiting to see how much it thickens as it cools--I was just guessing at amounts. The pear flavor is certainly stronger, but, as I assumed, fondant is really sweet. Maybe some lemon juice would help with that? If I stick with the white choc. ganache, I would be interested in knowing if others on the forum think substituting butter for some choc. will work. And, by the way, today I came across a thread on this same pear ganache in which some of the same problems came up. I hope we don't have to conclude that pears are just too delicate to be used in chocolates!

Do you know where I might find the Geerts book? Amazon says it is out of print, and I could find no other reference to it.