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Why do you insist that M&H has "much higher prices"? It's a different cost structure, but I would argue that 325/yr + 9/drink is cheaper on an annual basis than the 13/drink the EV places charge (and even better once you consider that the 9 is after tax, while at least at PDT the 13 is before tax, even accounting for the expectation of higher tipping at M&H).And White Star comes in even cheaper at 7/drink before 9PM (and only 10 or 12 afterward) and is really quite easy to get a spot at on off nights. You'd have a hard time arguing that they serve drinks at any lower of a level, especially on nights that Sasha tends bar there. That's essentially what's happening at M&H, except the motivation seems more to be to keep the noise level down than to really control the drink orders.

Well, how about the current M&H format? As far as I can tell, since Sasha started the membership program, it's been substantially easier to get seats there, and I've had fairly little trouble getting a reservation on relatively short notice. What about if it completely finished the transition to becoming a private club? Is this helpful? Certainly it's a lot easier for me to take friends there now (much easier than either PDT or D&Co), but unless you want to give an exam to prospective patrons, there are limited other ways to really restrict who shows up. Moreover, at a guess, I'd think that M&H is substantially less profitable than PDT or D&Co – at some level, these bars are businesses, too. The other thing is, there just aren't that many cocktail geeks... we wouldn't have the "SCB" scene in New York that we do if cocktail geekery weren't getting in some sense subsidized by everyone else. Net-net, I think that makes it a benefit.

D'oh, Pete's Word, sorry. Had one the other night with VEP Chartreuse. As delicious as expected, but I'm not sure that, at the margins, using the VEP is worth it. The drink has plenty going on already...

After a particularly awkward conversation with the reservationist ("so I heard you went bankrupt... "), I believe they're going to be staying open for the time being. Although I wouldn't blame him if I were never allowed to go there again.

Per Grub Street, looks like they just filed Chapter 11. That's a surprise to me; they seemed moderately popular the last time I went, although I haven't been there in a few months.

Thanks for the correction – looks like I have been lead into error by too readily believing food blogs!

Weird! I was under the distinct impression that M&H, at least, was still using pan ice. The economics of this also seem a bit odd – i.e., Don charging $1/cube, but White Star offering $7 drinks before 9 PM.

Am I correct in understanding that this is different/better ice than that used in the other Petraske-related places? Do any other bars in the city work off big blocks of ice like that?

Tailor offers the full menu at the bar? Wow, I'm going to go there more often! Assuming I don't get turned away, of course

To me, at least, it's just gossip. I don't pay serious attention to it, and would find it surprising if anybody did. Is Alice Waters's reported experience at Per Se really going to influence your decisions on going?

Do we really need to hold food "gossip" up to the same standards of reporting? I would argue that, as this is pretty firmly a "gossip" piece, rather than something substantially informative, that lower standards of verification are not inappropriate.

I want to attach myself to the Loop Tonic and Italian Inquisition train – although I'd like to note that the actual components listed for the Italian inquisition were reposado, punt e mes, averna, solerno, and mole xocolatl bitters (both former descriptions were missing an ingredient!). I'm actually more of a fan of the speakeasy-style decor you get at most of the other cocktail places, but it is a pretty comfy space. Also had a sip of a friend's Cinquenta Cinquenta (basically what it sounds like, but infused with earl grey). The II was the real winner of the night, though; amazingly deep and complex, one of the tastiest and most mature drinks I've had in a while.

Probably not up-to-date at all. Their tasting menu as of last Saturday was something likeOysters (forget which kind) w/yuzu-chili gelee Dayboat fluke crudo w/grapes and buttermilk Confit of arctic char on a Greek yogurt sauce w/deep fried vegetables Gnocchi in some broth that I forget Bass of some description? I had this subbed out for a pork shoulder dish because I'd had it before Spiced hot chocolate with some nougat that I forget Sorry that my memory is somewhat faulty. I believe they're still in the process of switching things to the Spring stuff, so it might be different or something by tomorrow.

As far as I'm aware, they don't have one.

I thought you were one who was not turned away lightly!

Steve's Word. It's a Last Word with Laphroaig in place of the gin. Surprisingly tasty – the Laphroaig takes a much bigger role in the drink than the gin does in a Last Word, but it works quite well.

Or maybe a third place to be shut out of. ← Oh no, I guess we'll just all have to take 5 minute cab rides to M&H or Pegu or something. The horrors.

Bruni's Charles review is just plain painful to read. Ow.

Isn't that basically what most of Sasha's bars actually do? ← You don't really want to talk about Sasha's ice programs here, do you? They have lots of different types of ice at his bars: large rectangular blocks for collinses and long drinks, large cubes for rocks drinks, large chunks to be used for shaking or broken for stirring and pellets for juleps and swizzles. Part of the benefit of cracked ice versus pellet or shell ice is the irregular shape and size of the fragments - which allows for the most subtle variations that makes each cocktail taste both the same and a little bit different each time. ← I mean specifically for the context of the cracked ice used for stirring – as I recall, it's just the same ice used for shaking, but broken at the time that it needs to be used. But the thing is, unless I'm mistaken (and I may well be, I'm just a recreational drinker!), is it not the case that Sasha's bars start with large pans of ice that are then broken into blocks (which are then further whittled down for use in shaking or as rocks)? Given this, it would in principle be possible to directly obtain cracked stirring ice without making and keeping around cubes first...

JLOB seems to be getting very little attention these days, which is a bit of a pity. I had a very nice meal there on Saturday. They do a 6-course tasting for $50, which is just as impressive a deal as the comparable offering at Degustation (well, assuming no prejudice against seafood or something). The space feels a little bit awkward, and the bar has a bit of an awkward little overhang that blocks view of plating (and that I kept bumping my wine glass into), but the food was very nice.

Isn't that basically what most of Sasha's bars actually do? But I think the main answer is just that cracking ice cubes is quick enough (and looks cool enough) that there's not that much to be gained by getting pre-cracked ice. Given all the stuff the bartender is doing with garnishes and the like anyway, I'm not all that scared of getting cooties from his touching the ice.

Actually, speaking of EV bars, is Decibel any good? I keep walking by it since it's just across the street from me, but have never actually gone in. I've also heard good things about a few of the wine bars in the area.

Interesting! I grabbed the tasting at Ssam Bar a few months ago, and didn't end up terribly impressed. Found it mostly just a mix of random stuff I could have gotten ALC, and in portions that were way too large. It looks like they've been cut down a little, but still, it's an intimidating amount of food.

Just got dinner there. Seems to be getting less crowded – no wait at 7, and the seating in the front was mostly clear the whole time. Really good for the price – the pig tail was really spectacular (though I may be saying that just because I've never had pig tail before).

My point is that service is a much bigger deal at a restaurant than in retail. Yes, it does make a difference, but the server/kitchen helping to e.g. make substitutions to a tasting menu to best work with my tastes makes a substantial difference from what happens if I go buy a TV – once I bring the TV home, the utility I get from it is not a function of the level of service I received.