mickblueeyes

Probably meant Lagavulin 16. You should try the Caol Ila 18 yr or Ardbeg Uigedail if you enjoy Lagavulin 16.

slkinsey: The reason why is the segment of the law you posted that states "charred new oak barrels". I believe you may be misreading this as "newly charred oak barrels". Bourbon cannot be aged in oak that has held anything prior to bourbon. As an aside, I was fortunate enough to spend the day with Ken Weber of Buffalo Trace and Julian Van Winkle a couple weeks back and was invited to the "organoleptic lab" where we tasted through 25 barrels of Pappy Van Winkle 15 yr 107 proof and several of the new experimental collection. The Zinfandel barrel was okay, the Chard was great and the other (Mouvedre I think) was phenomenal. Brent

If you are tasting whisky, the best way is at around 30% abv. If you are drinking whisky, drink it however the flip you like it. I drink cask strength neat or with a touch of water (3 to 4 drops), but I have even drank 136 proof Highland Park neat. I drink anything less than full cask strength neat. I sometimes drink cheap single malt on the rocks if I am grilling and smoking stogies on the porch (it's hot in the South). Drink how you like it, but if you are spending the money on single malt, you might as well drink it properly IMO.

Actually, to be exact, it was getting its whisky from Buffalo Trace for years. Now, Sazerac (Buffalo Trace) owns it. This is no different than any other contract whiskey like Prichard's Tennessee whiskey or the Van Winkle lineup.

Bacardi does no such thing. They have the largest distillation facility in the world and produce more than 2,000,000 proof gallons per day.

Some of my favorite Cachacas: Beleza Pura Armazem Viera Rubi Armazem Viera Esmeralda Rochinha 5 yr Rochinha 12 yr GRM 2 yr Well that pretty much sums up Excalibur Imports portfolio (less the Armazem Viera Onix, which I have not tasted). The Beleza Pura premixed Caipirinha is delicious as well. Nice and smoky, a touch too sweet for me, but after the rocks water it down a bit, it is de-lish. In comparison, Ypioca Crystal, Prata and Oude don't stand up, IMO (though I do like the Oude on the rocks with a dose of tropical fruit juice). Others like Cuca Fresca and P51 don't enter the equation, again IMO. I have not had the Mae de Ouro. Does anyone know who the importer is?

Interesting characterization. An independent online absinthe forum has become much busier than it was seven years ago (in 2000, before all this sudden interest, my Google searches on "absinthe" surfaced maybe five relevant hits). I mentioned it to a longtime student of absinthe, who characterized that forum nowadays as mostly goth people. ← That wouldn't happen to be La Fee Verte would it? I have lurked around there for many years.

cdh, I work in the business. I am looking for brands other than MOM or FC that have 1% abv.

That is a question best addressed on the booze laws thread. Short answer is that it depends on how the state defines beer, spirits and wine. In TN, anything over 6% is a "liquor distributed item". Anything under 6% is a grocery item. Wine, Spirits and high alcohol beer are sold in liquor stores. Beer under 6% and mixers are sold in grocery stores.

I thought surely someone here would know this!

Mmmmm. . . Luxardo Amaretto is dandy! I have to weigh in as a fan of all Luxardo liqueurs and bitters. Good stuff! Definitely a fan of their Maraschino. I believe something was mentioned about their cherry orchards earlier in the post. There specialty has always been cherries and they own a 12,000 acre of cherry orchard, which is the largest cherry orchard in the world, if I remember correctly.

This is a very confusing subject. I have worked in the industry for almost 8 years and it still confuses me. Here is are some of the basics: There is a three tier system which is comprised of National Suppliers/Importers, Wholesalers/Local Distributors and Retailers. According to Federal law, booze must flow through the three tier system. Each state has different laws that do reflect post-Prohibition mentality. Depending on size of state, you may have different territories (TN has 4--W, Central, SE and NE). You will have distributors in each of these areas. In most states, each National Supplier/Importer that wants their good represented in a market may only have one contract with one distributor in each territory. For instance, when Diageo wants to distribute Smirnoff in Knoxville, Nashville, Memphis and Chattanooga, they must establish a distributor in each area at the time of brand registration. To further complicate matters, most states have a registration process that bottlenecks at a bureaucrat rubberstamper who approves labeling and ultimately accepts or rejects a brand's request to enter the state. Often, this fee can be prohibitive for smaller brands. The fee in TN is $250 per year to register your liquor brand with the state. On a microdistilled gin that only ships 10 6-packs per year, that makes for either expensive product if the National Supplier/Importer adds it to the product or low margins if the S/I eats it. Either way, it is bad for everyone in the system except the Middleman--the wholesaler. To further convolute the entire situation, each state views wine, spirits and beer differently. In the state of TN, it is delineated as such: If a product is under 6% alcohol, it is a grocery item. If an item is over 6% abv (actually 5% abw), then it is considered a liquor distributed brand and must be sold in a liquor store. So all the beer that is over 6% abv is liquor. Wine is liquor and Liquor is liquor. In other states, they may delineate differently which allows different sales procedures. I believe NC allows wine and beer sales in grocery stores, but liquor may only be sold in a liquor store. In NC, I believe, all liquor stores are state controlled. This brings another aspect into play: the state controlled store. In several states, the state not only acts as the retailer, but also as the wholesaler/local distributor. The state purchases in bulk from importers and distributes it across the state to state run package stores. The problem with this is that bureaucrats set the prices and these states often have very high taxes on liquor and little selection. So the question then is how to improve the selection in your state. My first response: give up. It is not worth it. That being said, I have been responsible for bringing in over 15% of TN's current portfolio of over 3000 spirits. I am a retailer. Here's how I do it. First, I find the product. That isn't always easy. Importers and National Suppliers don't want to talk to you. Many times, they won't even have websites or if they have a product website, it will be based in the UK or South America or wherever your product is and you will have to find the US importer. I can assure you from experience, emailing people in Europe or South America through the "Contact Us" portion of the webpage is very unlikely to get a response, so finding an importer can be tough if you don't know how to look. So let's say that you find the importer or national supplier, now you have to convince them to bring it to your state. The first question out of every supplier's mouth will be "Are you a distribute or control state?" If you answer "control", see first response. If you answer "distribute", the fun is just beginning. So now, if you are a consumer, not a retailer, they will feed you a canned response to get you off the line or take your name and number promising a call back or even add you to their mailing list so that you can be informed when the product comes to your state. Refer to first response. On the flip side, if you are a retailer, or have a retailer working on your behalf, here is where you can begin to play ball. Before we proceed, back up a smidge. Before you talk to the importer, you need to have a distributor/wholesaler willing to bring the product in; it's not like you can just buy this from the importer. The TTB tends to frown on that in most places. So you approach the Field Manager postiioned person at your local distributorship (they will often have titles like Spirits Manager, Wine Manager, General Wine Manager, Wine Field Manager, etc) and try to get them to play ball. My approach has been simple: Either you get it in for me, or one of your competitors will. You will find someone willing to do it. So you are now armed with two of the three tiers; you have a retail outlet and a distributor willing to play ball. Now you get that Field Manager's contact info and you are on the phone with the importer. You tell them, "I want your product". They ask about distributors in your area and you provide them with the name and cell number of the distributor you have arranged this ordeal with. Then they will call the distributor and get info about how to enter the state. In TN, once paperwork is filed, it can take up to 90 days depending on the mood of the asshole running things. Once the state is squared away, they will sign a contract with the distributor to bring product into the state (if you are a franchise state, many S/I will balk at signing contracts because once they do, it is for life). So now the state is on board, the importer is on board and the distributor is on board. Now you have to place and order. Often, in order for it to make sense from a shipping standpoint, you will be required to order a minimum which may be a case, 10 cases, a layer, a half pallet, a pallet or sometimes more. It all depends on the brand, the price, the state fees and how friendly everything has been up and down the tiers. So you place your order for the minimum and the booze is on its way. Depending on what consolidation warehouse the importer uses and where the distributors trucks run, this could take anywhere from 10 days to 3 months. Afterall, unless you want to pay $75/case shipping, they may need to wait until a truck fills up heading your way. Now here is the real kicker, an aspect we didn't explore. . .what if the importer doesn't want to bring the product to your state? The liquor business is a business. To outsiders it might look like we don't know one end from the other, but I can assure you that the liquor business is one of the most sophisticated models out there. It closely mirrors the food/beverage industry (well, cause that's what it is--Coca Cola with higher taxes). S/I's have very sophisticated rollout plans based on very expensive marketing strategies. They want to be in every city and every state, but the money has to be there and it has to be logistically feasible. Oftentimes, it is not. More than any other product, liquor is strongly divided among ethnic lines. If you are a big company, say Diageo, and you want to release a new rum, say Onoronco, where do you do it? Do you release it in Kansas? Not only no, hell no. You release it in South Florida. If you want to release the newest version of Hennessey on a limited basis, do you do it in Knoxville, TN? Nope, you do it in Memphis TN. There are many products that I can't get that are available at the other end of the state. Why? My demographic is different and the S/I doesn't want to bring it to my side of the state b/c they know it won't be profitable. So there are dozens of factors to consider and it certainly has nothing to do with the appparent "class" of a product. What matters is "what sells". A short list of products I would love to discontinue because they suck: Hennessey Grey Goose Crown Royal Jack Daniel's Hpnotiq Sizzurp Jose Cuervo Bacardi Glenlivet Glenfiddich Macallan Yet, every day, people walk in my shop and buy them. Why? Because every ounce of their taste has been bought and paid for. So before you go jumping on retailers, distributors and importers about not bringing a bottle of your favorite product to your store, look at the economic cost vs. economic profit. We are all connoisseurs here, but the light is on and burning brightly for the unwashed masses. . .until then, grab a 1.75 of Windsor and mazeltov.

Max, what I mean is that I was on the side of demystifying at this thread's inception and I took a lot of heat for it from some respected members (and on other threads demystifying other spirits). I just find it interested that many of them have changed their tunes over the past few years. I can certainly appreciate the attempt to apply science to absinthe. . .I tried to do the same thing. It never ceases to amaze me. I have worked in or been associated with the booze industry in the US for around 10 years, primarily dealing with premium wines and spirits. Almost weekly for 7 years (since Absente came out) I have had some goth kid come in to the shop and tell me "I had real Absinthe in Spain last year and I couldn't remember where I was at for 3 days". My reply is always a firm and direct "Bollocks". I have been an absinthe enthusiast for years and never had one incident of "hallucinations" or other mind-altering experiences. Anyone who tells you they have is doing drugs in addition to absinthe. I am happy that people are finally starting to get it.

In TN, we can only carry Mixers with 1% abv or higher in liquor stores. The standard fare is Master of Mixes and Finest Call. Add in Bloody Bold Bloody Mary, Red Eye Bloody Mary and Zing Zang Bloody Mary and you have a full roster of what is available. The unfortunate situation is the lack of gomme syrup (or rock candy), orgeat syrup and fruit purees other than strawberry. Is anyone aware of a 1% abv lineup that has some higher quality and diversified purees as well as better syrups? I was hoping with the breadth of this board, we might be able to discover one in the vast reaches somewhere. TIA.

It is interesting to see how opinion on this spirit has changed over the years (I was one of the first posters on this thread). There is certainly a different perspective. Looks like I was just ahead of my time Olie, who posted a while ago, has a great product that I am carrying in my shop now called Absinto Carmago. It is a Brazilian Absinthe style liqueur. The taste is very good and well styled. The mint/methol really pulls away the intensity of the herbs and anis. Great in cocktails.

The Bacardi Reserva (if I am thinking of the right one) is very difficult to find. Bacardi only distributes it in towns where relatives of the Bacardi family live. Very good stuff from what I hear.

With regard to the Plantation rums, I have found them to be very good. There are 5 rums in the collection, most vintage dated, two of which are column stilled and 3 which are pot stilled. Price range is $20-$30 ish.

Jason, Do you know if GA still owns Kaniche? They used to, but it has been removed from their site and the local GA distributor is unable to get it any longer. Maybe Ed knows?

Slkinsey, all spirits that come off a continuous still tend to be "neutral spirits". "Grain Neutral Spirits" has become an industry jargon term that has no real definition, but for all intents and purposes is highly purified grain distillate (95% EtOH). However, oak aging can completely change anything. "Grain Whisky" by law has to be aged three years and is not typically distilled to 95% abv, though it is the product of a column still process. You have to realize as well that most Irish whiskeys contain "grain whiskies" and that many "Single distillery grain whiskies" are fantastic when bottled alone. In reference to the original question, you failed to define price range, but here are some suggestions: inexpensive bourbon: Eagle Rare Single Barrel, George T. Stagg, W. L. Weller 12 yr, Eagle Rare 17 yr or Sazerac 18 yr Rye. Expensive Bourbon: Black Maple Hill 14 yr, 16 yr, or 20 yr, Pappy Van Winkle 20 yr or 23 yr, Jim Beam Distiller's Masterpiece Port or Cognac Finish Canadian: Forty Creek Barrel Select or Three Grain, Gooderham and Worts, Lot 40, or Pike's Creek--whatever you do, don't buy Crown Royal, it is swill. Inexpensive Scotch: Aberlour A'bunadh, Bruichladdich 10 yr, Glenrothes 1989, Springbank 12 yr or Bowmore Dusk, Darkest or Dawn--Avoid inexpensive Macallan and Glenmorangie. Expensive Scotch: Macallan 25 yr, Bruichladdich 1970 or 1966 Legacy, Ardbeg 1978, Laphroaig 30 yr, Glendronach 30 yr or any nice bottlings from the following Independent Bottlers: Old Malt Cask, Signatory, Gordon and MacPhail, Blackadder or Murray McDavid.

Not true WHT.

The Spanish stuff is real. People have just exaggerated the claims of thujone content in 19th century Absinthe to strenghen their position against it. Absinthe around the turn of the century was manufactured with steam distillation which yeilds 4 mg per 1.5 oz at the most, but also renders the absinthe very bitter. For taste's sake, it is better at 2-3 mg. However, even at 4 mg, it means at most you would be looking at a 90 mg per litre at the most. This is readily available currently in the brand Serpis, which is the strongest currently available. It is also the brand I drink.

Trillium, the science just isn't there. I would suggest reading the other thread in this room entitled "Absinthe". Here is a short excerpt: 1. Thujone is the suspected candidate for the second active ingredient in Absinthe. (read not verifiable) 2. It is hypothesized, since Thujone is structurally similar to THC, that it may act on the same chemoreceptors that THC does.(That's a lot of guessing and not a whole lot of science) 3. Thujone is a convulsant, but would have to be active in low doses (which it is not) to allow for enough consumption to have effect. However, since Absinthe ranges from 55%-75% abv, consumption of levels high enough to cause acute symptoms borders on impossible. (Read, you can't get enough thujone to hallucinate from drinking Absinthe) 4. Steam distillation of wormwood yields roughly 2-4mg of Thujone per 1.5 oz of liquor. Based on actual Thujone research done on rats, it takes greater than 10 mg per kg of body mass administered chronically to notice even slight effects. (even at the highest levels, it would take 255 oz of Absinthe, drunk routinely, so as to build up presence in the blood, to cause a 150 lb individual to hallucinate) 5. "Absinthism" exhibits the exact same physiological effects as alcoholism. (I suppose that since I am drinking iced tea, yet exhibiting signs of malaria, I actually have "iced teaism"? Surely you see the absurdity?) Furthermore, the article clearly states that there is no evidence to Absinthe's toxicity other than turn-of-the-century anecdotal evidence. And, most revealing, the article states that Benedictine, Vermouth, and Chartreuse all contain Thujone as well. I have never heard, after several years in the liquor industry, of anyone getting "high" or "hallucinating" from those products. The article referenced in the excerpt can be found here: Absinthe FAQs There is no evidence (even suggested evidence) to show that Absinthe causes anything other than funky drunkeness. It is akin to being a routine bourbon drinker and drinking a bottle of champagne for the first time. It will make you feel different. Or drinking beer if you're not a beer drinker, or anything else for that matter.

Buffalo trace (owned by Sazerac co.) produces a plethora of bourbons including Old Charter, Ancient Age, Weller, Eagle Rare, Benchmark, Blanton's, Elmer T Lee, Sazerac, George T Stagg and Rain Vodka.

Corozon, Chinaco, Corralejo, El Tesoro, Herradura, Sauza (100% agaves), Hussong's, Lapiz, etc, etc. . .Yep, I like tequila too!

TNBourbon is kinda correct. Rebel Yell was originally a lower proof bottling of W.L. Weller 7 yr old, that is prior to 1991. It was also only marketed "Below the Mason-Dixon line". However, that is no longer true. In '91 UDV purchased the Stitzel-Weller distillery, along with several others, and promptly closed them down. Instead, they built Bernheim, which was producing Weller, Rebel Yell, Old Fitzgerald, Eagle Rare and several others. In 1999, UDV decided to get out of the Bourbon business, so they sold off all the brands. Heaven Hill purchased Bernheim and Old Fitzgerald. Sazerac got the rest. Later, they sold Rebel Yell to David Sherman Corp. who has the product manufactured at Heaven Hill for them. It still follows the original recipe however. With regard to Maker's being the best bourbon hands down, that is certainly ultra subjective. There are currently four wheated bourbon lines on the market: Weller/Rebel Yell, Van Winkle, Old Fitzgerald and Makers. Frankly, I would choose any of the others over Makers. I, too, have drunk just about every bourbon made on the market and put Makers somewhere in the upper quarter, but not in my top 10. At 1/3 less than Makers, I will drink Weller any day.