KD1191

I'd also add Indian to the list. While the best is up on Devon at places like Bhabi's Kitchen, there are several all you can eat buffets in the city that offer great value. I particularly like Gaylord, just off the North end of the Mag Mile and Klay Oven in River North.

nsxtasy's list is a good jumping off point for some discussion. I guess 'cheap' is in the eye of the beholder, but I don't necessarily consider cabbing anywhere 'cheap'...especially when the EL is so efficient. The lines have been completely insane lately, to the point of the line not being worth it unless you've never been and won't be back to Chicago anytime soon. Personally, while it's one of the things Chicago is known for, I wouldn't send a chef from the region to a Chicago-style pizza place. To me, it's a novelty more than anything. If a chef friend asked me for recommendation on pizza in Chicago, I'd send them to Coalfire on Grand and Racine. It's $15 per pizza which (depending on your appetite) might not serve more than one, so I wouldn't call it cheap. Frontera and Topolo are fine restaurants, but cheap they are not. I've eaten at both numerous times, and Topolo never fails to wow me, but even at lunch I end up with around $50/pp. That said, I've never had a meal at Frontera after which I hadn't wished I'd either gone to Topolo or a neighborhood taqueria. For what it is, it's overpriced. Bayless's true talent is in the room next door, and you can get what's on offer at Frontera much cheaper elsewhere in the city. The imminent opening of Xoco, could change the equation entirely. Supposedly their final city inspection is today, which would put opening by the end of the month certainly in sight. I don't want to know what the wait is going to be like, or how likely they are to run out of cochinita pibil, but I will let you know as soon as I do. I agree that Pilsen holds some amazing bargains, and is too close to the city to ignore. I wouldn't put Blackbird and cheap in the same sentence (oops, I just did), however you may be able to put together a somewhat cheap snack next door at Avec. Lots of upcharges to be wary of in the bistro scene as well, but you can have a meal that seems like a bargain if you get lucky and go on the right night. I like Kiki's in River North. Like Mike Myers said, I believe all Greek food is based on a dare, so despite long residence in the city, I have nothing to add here. Completely agreed. Thai can be great in Chicago, particularly in the far North as you mention, but also farther South, particularly Hyde Park. I've yet to find reliable Thai anywhere near downtown. Sad to report that my favorite, Eppy's in Streeterville has closed, but their Loop location is still open, as far as I know. Agreed, worth experiencing for the experience, but getting close to the same novelty factor as the pizza. Bongo Room is good, but can get very crowded on weekends, and is quite expensive for what it is. Original Pancake House is a better bang for your buck, imo, but can also have quite a line. I'm forever grateful to breakfast/brunch places that take reservations, particularly on Opentable. In that regard, I'd like to mention Big Jones in Andersonville. They do some great Southern favorites and a decent selection of brunch cocktails.

You might ask the same question about Campari. My own answer would be the same for both: no, it isn't an aromatic wine for the simple reason that there is no wine in it. It's a low-proof, relatively low intensity amaro (aka aperitif bitters). ← Thanks, any info on my more pragmatic question? At 11%, do we have to worry about Aperol going bad sitting on the shelf?

I don't know if you've tried Elixir Végétal. I have. It's pretty far down on the list of things I'd like to see over here. Not all that terribly interesting IMO. ← I love all things Chartreuse, and am planning a trip that involves driving through Voiron next spring to visit the monastery. I find the E.V. mesmerizing, but have never had the chance to play with it in cocktails. I guess I don't see a reason why it couldn't play the same role that a dash of Absinthe plays in 'improving' many drinks. Amer Picon has been very high on my list since I had an amuse at l'Arnsbourg in the Vosges that was a molecular-type riff on Picon bière. What would be on your list?

Cheap, interesting and close to downtown...it's one of those classic "You can only have two of the three," situations. I think your best bet might be to head to Pilsen (Nuevo Leon, Don Pedro Carnitas) or Chinatown (start with any of the Lao places, but Sze Chuan is my favorite).

The ingredients you mention are invaluable products, and so I find it not at all surprising that they were whole-heartedly accepted and evangelized when they came on the scene. Every Cocktailian wanted to play with them, like having a new toy on Christmas morning. Unfortunately, much like that toy, they either broke or were worn-out from overuse. I noticed a particular backlash against St. Germain, when it seemed every other cocktail featured a dash or two and, as you mention, the price climbed ever higher (to meet the demand?). That said, many of these ingredients were either non-existent or bit players during the golden age. As the classics, and riffs thereon, have been the primary focus of much of the revival (outside of some exceptional enclaves), it would seem natural that such ingredients would not have the staying power to match their initial success. "What's going to be the next big thing? And how long will it last?" Unless I blinked, and it's already over, tea-infusion seems somewhat new and quite popular. "What products would we most like to see imported?" Elixir Végétal, or through some time travel original Amer Picon.

While mixing up a gimlet from a recipe lifted from L2O that includes the addition of some Aperol, I noticed that it's only 11% alcohol. I found that pretty surprising. Has anyone had problems with the shelf-life of the product?

That would be a Boulevardier, provided one agrees that PeM can be subbed in for sweet vermouth without it becoming a new drink. ← Maybe so, but I think that the Punt e Mes deserves at least special mention, if not a new name. It was fantastic. ← The Boulevardier is great, I prefer it with a spicy bourbon, but there's certainly nothing wrong with good rye in its place. I've been having the same Punt e Mes vs. Sweet Vermouth debate with several folks lately. My personal feeling is that Punt e Mes can be used in any cocktail where Sweet Vermouth is called for, and that should not in and of itself change the name of the cocktail. However, I think that if the ingredient is listed as "Sweet Vermouth" on the cocktail menu, Punt e Mes should not be used unless specified or agreed to by the customer.

That article does first mention the Latin name for the plant, Cynara scolymus, before going on to specifically make the claim that the liqueur takes its name from cynarin. I have no idea who the author of the article was or its provenance, but it's possible there's a valid source behind the assertion. Perhaps the creators were trying to cash in on the supposed health effects of cynarin (i.e. "Cynar: against the stress of modern life."), or it's more than likely that it's just some sloppy journalism. In any case, as you quite rightly point out, cynarin obviously takes its name from Cynara scolymus, so of course does Cynar...either in one step or two. Unfortunately, that doesn't really answer the question of whether there is any cynarin in the stuff. These pages each claim that there is...

This article says that it is the leaves that are used to make Cynar, not the flower...it references that the product is named for cynarin, but doesn't specifically state that there is any in the product.

Asked the guys to whip this up tonight (with the Beam), and we toasted to you. It is indeed a tasty concoction, thank you. However, it isn't quite what I would call a 'Carpano Sour'. Yes, it's a rye sour with Carpano...and, perhaps that as good as I'm going to get, but I'm holding out hope that something more Carpano-forward comes forward. Any thoughts?

If you have Punt e Mes, I would definitely suggest using 1/2 and 1/2 PeM and M&R Rosso in place of Carpano Antica when it isn't available. I scoffed when I first heard the suggestion, but the flavor profile is extremely similar. I didn't believe how similar until I tried it.

I'm bumping this up due to the recent discussion in the Cynar thread about pairing cocktails/liquors and food. What I see above are a lot of recommendations for particular liquor/food pairings, and a few ingenious ways of melding cocktails and food, but I don't see nearly as many cases of a mixed drink being said to pair with a particular dish or type of food as I would expect. I discussed this topic too briefly with a more learned eG member (hopefully he'll chime in) and found it interesting that he believed there was an inherent difficulty in pairing cocktails with food (as opposed to scotch or wine, I guess) due to the "balance" that is trying to be achieved in a well prepared cocktail. By introducing food, do you change that equation? Must ratios be adjusted or re-thought?

It was over a year ago, but I still warmly remember a delicious lunch at Brasserie Francotte on the Place des Célestins.

I don't make this very often, but have a friend who makes them at least once a week and he was wondering about the same issue. We brought it up to one of the bartenders at TVH the next time we noticed him making one. He said that the bitters tend to do one of three things: Sit in a nice circle on the 'head' of the cocktail, spread out and bleed across the entire surface, or drop under the surface momentarily before resurfacing and staying put. He drops for a pretty decent height (not right up against the surface), and didn't say what exactly would account for any one particular behavior of the bitters. It was busy, so we didn't press the issue. Personally, I think it has something to do with the length of time between shaking and pouring/applying the bitters. I've noticed that when I poor shortly after anything resembling vigorous shaking that most drinks have something of a head to them, which I would think would allow the bitters to sit nicely and not bleed as much. Someone with a better understanding of surface tension and relative densities of the various components could surely explain or debunk this, but my thought would be if you want the bitters to 'stick', shake harder and poor/dash immediately. ETA: 'Great whooshing drops' (!) oops...there goes my theory.

Thanks, my wife found a website about leaving Narita during long layovers, which put my mind at ease on that question, but I appreciate the additional confirmation. We're very active travelers, so I don't think a bus tour would be the best thing for us. The layover is actually at the end of our trip, before the long flight home to Chicago, so we shouldn't be in too bad of shape either. We're arriving from Hanoi that morning, which is only a 5 hour flight. Assuming our flight arrives on time at 6:50 AM, what time would you think we'd be through immigration/customs? Any price range, really...have loved $0.25 tacos from carts in Tijuana and multi-hundred dollar tasting menus at *** in Paris, and everything in between. While I like a bargain as much as the next person, great food is something I'm perfectly content to splurge on. Tempura (as anything other than a side dish) isn't something I know much about, are there any threads here where I can learn more? I love good ramen and the idea of yakimono/yakitori (though I've never been to one, not even sure which is the correct term, sorry). Do you know, is there any point in heading to Tsukiji if we can't get there until later in the day? I get the impression from reading that you need to be there in the pre-dawn to appreciate it, but sushi is really going to be the #1 experience for me. I love it, and sadly there is no great sushi in Chicago, and so I never eat it unless I'm traveling to someplace closer to an ocean. I can't pass up getting a chance to eat it in Tokyo.

Thanks for the info Toby...I'll see if one of the guys wants to give it a second try on Thursday.

Have you had the Tongue in Cheek at the Violet Hour? They go quite well in that one... ← Yep, one of my wife's favorites. I think we both talked about it over in the VH thread. I didn't realize it had lemon juice in it. Do you know how much? ...in any case it wouldn't be as much as in a 'sour'.

Paper Airplane 1 oz each of Lemon Juice, Amaro Nonino, Campari and Elijah Craig bourbon, shaken and strained into a chilled coupé. This is a riff on Sam Ross's Paper Plane, which called for Aperol and (I think) Buffalo Trace. Ira Koplowitz at The Violet Hour introduced me to Elijah Craig in this drink, and it knocks it out of the park. Smoky, sweet, bitter and quite mysterious, I can never put this down.

So... Beer Lao Fish Sauce Sriracha or Curry Paste Pomelo Juice? Salt the rim? Himalayan Pink Salt?

They had just opened a fresh bottle of Carpano Antica behind the bar and I was enjoying a bit straight up. A bartender who knows my palate rather well decided to experiment with a 'Carpano Sour'...bumping up the proof with Booker's. It sounded promising, but he sampled the mix and declared it "pretty bad". I insisted on giving it a try. Sadly, the lemon absolutely killed the flavor of the vermouth. Can't imagine those two playing well together, at all.

Haven't actually had "the" Lipspin...just heard of it (and it's on Mayahuel's menu on their website). Someone made me a drink that was similar after he'd tried the original, though I'm not sure he had the ratios for the original either. I don't recall the garnish, if there was one.

They are combining tequila and cynar in the Lipspin (Blanco Tequila, Sloe Gin & Cynar) at Mayahuel. Have had a similar drink and I think the combination deserves further examination. Did you think the reposado was right in the above? Or, would a younger product have worked better with the vegetal notes?

Isn't it more akin to vinegar than wine? I would think maybe Fox & Obel or the like...perhaps a middle eastern grocery?

Now that you mention it, curry is probably a better idea, but I don't think I'd be able to stop myself from trying sriracha on the first go-round.