Harters

Restaurants with rooms are off the menu. Herself insists on the luxury of the country house hotel style. Gidleigh may be too far of a schlep from Cheshire for what will pretty much just be an overnighter. But maybe not.

Although it seems to lean heavily towards the participation of the celebs of the industry. I have two other negative comparisions with the older format. Firstly, it is no longer a topical show - surely you would have expected some mention of horsemeat. And, in Jilly Goolden's day, she would have been telling you exactly what wine she was suggesting, where you could buy it and how much.

Anything recent on this place? My partner celebrates a significant birthday later in the year. It is already being hinted that a suitable celebration would be posh(ish) country house hotel with good grub. I have hinted back that Le Manoir and Sharrow Bay would fit the bill but these hints have been spurned on the basis that "we've been there and I want somewhere new". If not Lords of the Manor, then where?

Speaking of old programmes and Roux, anyone see the revived "Food & Drink" programme. I used to enjoy that donkeys years back but I'm not so sure about the new look. Seems everything has to have a profusion of sleb chefs.

Last year, I decided not to watch the nightly programmes but just to watch the Friday programme. And that worked well for me - certainly enough of the cooking and hardly any of the wanking about of the nightlies . Done the same this year - just watched Friday's on the iPlayer. Awful, just awful. Laugh - I nearly pissed myself. Or not. A ten minute programme stretched to thirty. I think I may not bother watching the rest of the series at all - the concept has definitely passed its "use by" date.

This is, presumably, a new version of the earlier "scores on the doors" website? One of the difficulties is that they don't seem to be in a rush to update the ratings when improvements have been tackled. A local well known (and well thought of) bistro managed to get a zero rating due to small, but serious, breach of regulations. It was quickly put right but the zero rating remained for quite a while - IIRC, until the restaurant went to the local press who managed a very good "splash" .

Disappointing to see comparitively few UK/Ireland restaurants in this UK/Ireland thread. Alderley Restaurant, Alderley Edge Aumbry, Prestwich Fraiche, Oxton Ledbury, London L'Enclume, Cartmel Manoir aux Quat Saisons, Oxfordshire Middle Kingdom, Manchester Northcote, Langho Tanroagan, Douglas Waterside Inn, Bray

To which the correct response is "All chefs, Marco? And all people?

This is touted as gossip on Manchester Confidential. Much as I enjoy Rogan's food, I would very much hope that the gossip is not true. IMO, the French is a fine restaurant at which i enjoy eating probably more than almost anywhere else in the metro area. The restaurant has a style and elegance which comes with the room and the history and which I cannot see Rogan's food matching, let alone surpassing.

I agree about the look of the dishes, Man. We looked to having a meal at the Hand & Flowers in the summer when we were celebrating a major anniversary. Was going to go for lunch but we were seduced by Le Manoir. I know we made the right choice then but will probably have to have another schlep down south. Still can't get my head round the concept of a pub with 2*.

I've been watching "Professional Masterchef" this week and found it interesting how the three 2* chefs reacted and treated the contestants. On the one hand, right from the start, Tom Kerridge welcomed, guided and praised the two doing a service at the Hand & Flowers. Just as you'd expect a good manager to behave in any industry. And, at the other end of ths scale, I thought Marcus Wareing came across as a pretentious knobhead.

Another recipe for parkin here which, to my tastebuds, seems a more accurate version of the cake we eat in northern England. http://britishfood.about.com/od/recipeindex/r/yorksparkin.htm

In the spirit of posts 20 & 21, let me just say that I have often eaten brulees that are crimes against good food. Thanks for the report, Martin

Like Gary above, I'm also a member of another forum which shows no sign of decline over the 10+ years its been operating. It's a fairly specialist area - military history related to the Great War. Many thousands have signed up over the years and the site owners reckon that, at any one time, several hundred can be deemed to be active members. To my mind, it continues to be successful because the ethos of the board is one of friendliness and a willingness to respond to questions from other members. Many of us use our real names and there is a sense of "community" I'm sure in my mind that the level of detail given in responses and the nature of debates could not easily translate to a Twitter format. That said, I would never have thought that sites offering similar levels of detailed discussions about restaurants would be in such decline.

I'm sure Thom is right in his general analysis. I have no interest whatsoever in Twitter or Facebook. Or blogs, for that matter. Heck I don't even own one of those new fangled mobile phone thingies. His posts serve to confirm to me that my time on egullet (and Chowhound) is probably drawing to a close. As I've mentioned upthread, if there are insufficent people here with whom to have a conversation about restaurants, then there is little point being a lone voice. Apart from a couple of posts, I note I've been the only person posting reviews on the Manchester City Centre thread for the last couple of years. I suspect I'll go back to how it was before I discovered restaurant forums - just going to dinner with my wife, having a nice time and, occasionally, firing off a review to the Good Food Guide. John

I suspect "trolls" is not the correct word (but what do I know, eh?) and I've no wish to put words in David's mouth. But I suspect I know what may lie behind his comment. In the past, he has taken some criticism from other contributors when he has posted about his restaurant experiences. Much of that criticism has come from folk who choose never to post about their own experiences. If I had been at the end of those comments I may well have formed the view that some folk get their rocks off by sitting in the background sniping at others, while not contributing positively to the point of the forum.

I believe there is a general decline in the use of discussion boards, with things like Facebook and Twitter (whatever they are!) becoming more popular. Like you, I enjoy the discussion and simply don't think you can talk about a restaurant adequatley in 140 characters - but we are in a minority. The decline in boards is something I've noticed in some of my other interests (although not with some others). It may be that the egullet UK/Ireland board has always had a relatively few number of posters and, therefore, it's particularly hard hit when folk stop posting. Certainly I have a sense that the board is, indeed, verging on becoming moribund. In recent times, there's only been a couple or so people regularly posting their "reviews" of meals. It simply isnt enough to sustain the board, particularly if those reviews don't generate comment. I have often criticised Chowhound (to which I also post) as being so London-centric and pretty much geared to the visiting American tourist, whereas egullet has always seemed to have a much wider interest across the whole of the UK and have most of its posters being "home grown". Clearly that has been the appeal of egullet for me, as I live and generally eat in north west England. My geography means that I am less likely to have shared experiences of places and I accept that but I've noticed that, recently, there's been more commentary about my posts on Chowhound than here. It really does make me wonder if continuing with egullet is worthwhile. (EDIT: Actually it makes me wonder whether continuing with either egullet or Chowhound is a fun use of my time)

Funnily enough, when I was leaving a restaurant recently (not a top flight one), the chef asked me how it had been and if there was anything to be done to improve the experience. I hadnt got my thoughts together so just muttered that it had been OK. Next day, I emailed him with some comments - some good, some not so good. Never heard anything back from him. Not even "You're talking bollocks, Harters"

North West Caterer reports that Northcote has received a substantial investment from local entrepreneurs, Richard & Lynda Matthewman. He will become Chairman of the board with Nigel haworth and Craig Bancroft remaining as managing directors. There'll be development at Northcote and an expansion of the Ribble Valley pubs "brand" over the coming years. http://www.northwestcaterer.co.uk/2012/11/08/northcote-group-boosted-by-major-investment/

Obviously a subjective matter with which I would disagree. I suppose it is a matter of what one is used to and has enjoyed over the years.

By the by, I was in Madrid last week where it seems to have become impossible to get a proper "cafe con leche". Order it and what you get is a cup of frothy bitter liquid as per Starbucks cappuccino.

Good for Debenhams! I have long wondered why the world has to order coffee in the language of north west America. And while we're at it - can I make the suggestion that the alternative to a "large" coffee is a "small" coffee not "regular" which is a fecking meaningless word in the context. Unless, of course, a place wants to start selling large coffee as "irregulars".

We’re not prepared to drive more than 60 minutes for a midweek dinner and Greenhead House just scrapes in. Of course, for that distance, there has to be something of a recommendation. And, in this case, it’s the restaurant’s entry in the 2013 Good Food Guide. The building is a lovely 17th century one and it would have been a shame if the interior was ultra-modern. It isn’t. In fact, the decoration and the furnishings have an air of the old fashioned. It reminded me of the sort of small hotel you come across from time to time on the outskirts of small towns – the lounge a little cramped with uncomfortable seating; the small dining room also having its tables just a little too close to one another. Lots of ornaments on shelves but everything immaculately maintained. You get the picture? And there’s a bit of an air of the old-fashioned to the set menu (the only one on offer) which reminds me of the country house hotel style – a choice of four starters, followed by soup or sorbet, before moving through the short list of mains, desserts before arriving at coffee and petit fours. It’s a fixed price for the meal, dependent on your choice of main course – but all in the mid to upper £40s. And Neil and Anne Allen are doing something very right here – he cooks, she runs front of house in an efficient and very friendly way. She told us they’ve been there for nearly 30 years and they are still packing them in – all but one table was full. The menu changes every couple of months and there’s always a salad starter which was my partner’s choice. Leaves, green beans, griddled courgettes, tahini dressing and a sprinkle of sesame seeds. Fresh, light and pretty tasty. My own starter featured homemade crumpets topped with goats cheese. I liked the sound of this but it was a bit of a let down. Crumpet was very thin and overwhelmed by the cheese. Now, I like goats cheese and always hope that a restaurant offering will taste, well, a bit goaty. But it never is. It’s just bland and it was no exception here. There was drizzle of honey and a sprinkle of pine nuts to cheer things up a bit. Our “middles”, as they were described, were a thick butternut squash soup, drizzled with a little truffle oil and decorated with croutons and, for me, a pink grapefruit sorbet. Both did their job well. Grouse was served with the breasts off the bone, accompanied by the legs. Cooking here was bang-on pink. Alongside, a spoonful of bread sauce, a bacon wrapped sausage and gaufrette potatoes (or posh crisps, if you will). My partner was having the more girly dish of lemon sole – absolutely delicious and not overwhelmed by the garlic and parsley butter which came with it. Also on the plate, crostini topped with what was described as sardine and tomato rillettes. They were, however, nothing of the sort and you might be forgiven for thinking the kitchen had simply opened a tin of sardines in tomato sauce and mashed it up a bit. But they probably hadn’t. A dish of vegetables was served separately – plainly cooked carrot, broccoli, Jerusalem artichoke and duchesse potatoes. For dessert, pannacotta was well made with just the right amount of wobble and came with spiced damsons. Not sure what was the spicing – perhaps a little ginger – but the fruit worked exceptionally well. I’d decided to be kind to my diabetes, if not my cholesterol, and ordered cheese – four decent slices of British ones (nope, can’t recall what they were, except for a Stilton). Mercifully, not fridge cold. At this point, Greenhead House demonstrates the meaning of hospitality by offering “seconds” of desserts. They’ve always done it, apparently. Well, it would be churlish to refuse so we shared a lovely chocolate and raspberry tart. And then we were offered “thirds”, but declined. We’d been well fed and had an enjoyable evening. Which is just what you want when you’ve an hour’s drive ahead of you to get home.

Northcote’s set lunch is advertised at a very reasonable £26 but the website also has a £5 discount voucher which makes it a bargain. No, let me correct that, at £21 that’s not a bargain, that’s a complete steal for a three course Michelin starred lunch. There was a canapé with the aperitifs in the lounge – very thin biscuits and a black pea houmous. And, once in the dining room, there was a good selection of bread. We tried the cheese one and a roasted onion one. Both very good. “Foragers soup” was based on leeks with a background flavouring from lovage, bittercress and sorrel. It was light, interesting and totally delicious. The other starter, a game turnover, was another success. Crisp pastry, enclosing what I think was mainly rabbit. Alongside, a few salad leaves; turnip puree and a few dice of pickled turnip. Really rather fab as starts to an autumn lunch. For mains, beef cheek was packed with flavour and whatever it had been cooked in was now just clinging to the meat. There were some sautéed wild mushrooms and a little spinach. And mashed potatoes. Not pomme puree. Not a sloppy goo. Just proper mashed potatoes. They appeared on the other plate, as well. Here they accompanied hake. There was also thick slices of leek – boiled and then finished in the pan to char them slightly. But the star accompaniment here was a wonderfully crisp onion and turmeric fritter – a Michelin onion bhaji, if you will. Desserts were as good as the previous courses. Roasted pineapple sat alongside rum and raisin ice cream, together with a little rum and lime sauce – for that totally tropical taste. My dessert had its own lilt but one firmly fixed in Britain. A mousse, lightly flavoured with Horlicks, was topped with a dice of Bramley apple and a little apple sorbet. Just excellent. And, to finish, good strong espresso and a little Eccles cake.

SUN TERRACE RESTAURANT AT THE MIDLAND HOTEL Oh, I do like to be beside the seaside. I do like to be beside the sea. And you don’t get much closer to the sea than the restaurant at the Midland Hotel. When we’re “out and about”, the Good Food Guide is usually what we rely on for restaurants. But it was by co-incidence that we were here and the hotel restaurant had just made its first appearance in the 2013 edition. We had actually scored a cracking deal on a dinner inclusive overnighter at this renovated Art Deco hotel. The restaurant has a grand view over Morecambe Bay and it just seemed right to order the local shrimps as a starter. They came in a mini Kilner jar, mixed with warm butter and accompanied by a handful of leaves and a couple of slices of very decent sourdough bread. Pleasant enough, although they seemed to be lacking the subtle spicing that you get in the more traditional potted shrimps. Underseasoning seems to be a bit of an issue in the kitchen. A slice of onion tart was otherwise fine – good crisp pastry, generous filling. Alongside, a little frisee salad with a tangy mustardy dressing. A main course of monkfish was generally well crafted. It sat on a bed of vegetables – spinach and fennel – and was topped with a scattering of juicy mussels and crisp samphire. The only let-down here was a nondescript cream sauce which really added nothing but wetness. On the other plate, long braised blade of beef was OK. Nothing to write home about, flavourwise, but certainly OK. There were decent fries (swapped for the advertised mash), carrots and green beans. The latter were in the “very al dente” fashion of a decade ago. To finish a scoop of mango sorbet was very much second choice, as the kitchen had run out of most of the flavours of the local ice cream that its menu makes much of. Cheese was a good plate, if a little fridge cold. A selection of five British & Irish ones – usual accompaniments of biscuits, celery, chutney and grapes.