brinza

Well, anyone who has spent the last ten days or so following this thread deserves a martini by now. I had one tonight, in fact. Also I blame Chris for the fact that I have just run out of CAF. He keeps going on about Martinezeses made with CAF, so I started making them that way, and now my wife has decided that she likes Martinezes (to my utter astonishment) and she downed two of them tonight. Luckily, the week after next, I will have the opportunity to obtain some more. I'll probably also be able to get a hold of Junipero and even Damrak. I've heard that Damrak is really genever even though they call it gin on the bottle (here we go again). What's the consensus on it (ie whether it's good and whether it is in fact representative of genever--I don't care about what it should be called)?

Those are intriguing questions. I find it ironic that, despite the long-held (and IMO spurious) notion of the "American palate" preferring sweeter things while the Europeans prefer bitter and dry things, the version of Noilly Prat dry vermouth that was exported strictly for the American market was much drier than what the European market had access to (which we all discovered when they reverted to the "original French dry" formula). The original is arguably sweeter and fuller bodied than the Americanized version we had. As for bianco vermouths, M&R's is extremely sweet, so I would be surprised if French vermouth was ever that sweet. Dolin's Blanc isn't as sweet, of course, so maybe that's closer to being possible (and it is French). Sidenote: I just recently had the pleasure of tasting Dolin's vermouths for the first time, thanks to a kind bartender who graciously offered me samples of all three varieties merely because I said, "Oh, you have Dolin vermouth." There were all wonderful, so now I'm dying to get my hands on some.

Similar ambiguities are arising in the world of vodkas as well. Amongst the flavored vodkas (which aren't just flavored, but have significant sugar added to them), we have iced tea flavored vodka. Really? This isn't flavored vodka, it's tea with vodka. They didn't stop there: now there are flavored tea flavored vodkas. So any crap with alcohol is *vodka these days? Then, in another vein, we have things like bison grass flavored vodka. I don't know what bison grass even is, but it sounds to me like a botanical. So from one end, we've got nearly juniperless gins and from the other end we've got vodka with botanicals. Will they eventually meet in the middle, maybe overlap? Then what? Certainly there is room for innovation, but while at first I didn't mind these newer products being called gin, I have to agree that their proliferation is distorting the notion of what gin really is. A consumer browsing a shop and considering untried brands should at least be afforded some reasonable expectation of what a product is by its categorical designation stated on the bottle. When I tasted New Amsterdam, for example, I realized just how far away from actual gin a product called "gin" can be. I say we call them Melange Botanique.

Getting back to new generation gins for a moment, one of the interesting aspects of these low-juniper gins, I think, is that the other botanicals are more readily discernible. However, it seems that most of the low-juniper gins tend to lean heavier on the citrus. What would be an example of a new generation gin that isn't citrus-heavy, ie, one that tastes more distinctly of the herbaceous botanicals? (However, maybe such a thing would be closer to being an aquavit than a gin.)

According to The Book of Gins and Vodkas: A Complete Guide, by Bob Emmons, there are four major grain processing companies in the U.S. that distill grain alcohol: ADM Midwest Grain Co. Grain Processing Corporation Seagram's Together, they make 99% of the potable grain spirits used to make vodka in the U.S. Basically, according to Emmons, nearly all vodka makers in the U.S.(I imagine this applies to gin producers as well), with the exceptions of few true micro-distilleries, purchase grain alcohol by the tank-car load, (possibly re-distill it, though that's actually the exception), and add their own water to bring it to bottle proof. Even Tito's does this. He dilutes the base (190 proof) spirit to 100 proof, redistills it, then dilutes it again to 80 proof. Seagram's is probably the only mass market vodka/gin producer that manufactures its own neutral grain spirit. In some European countries, the distilleries are government-owned and the neutral grain spirit is sold to rectification companies. Interesting fact about British gins: British law forbids the making of gin on the same premises where neutral grain spirits are made. So even British gin is made from neutral grain spirit that purchased or made elsewhere. I do know that Pennsylvania Pure Distilling in Pittsburgh, for example, who make Boyd & Blair Vodka, do make their own mash from locally grown potatoes and distill the vodka themselves in small batches. Philadelphia Distilling's website, however, contradicts the statements quoted from that interview, but they're certainly not going put that on a website.

I did manage to get a hold of one bottle of Broker's. I though it was excellent. I'd like to be able to get it again. I almost forgot about Bombay Dry. I bought it once. I'm going to have to revisit it (and it's much less expensive than Sapphire, too). Actually, there is a gin made in Germany called Steinhager. And under German law, it may be flavored with only juniper and no other botanicals. So, it seems that for a juniper-heavy, 94-proof gin, the best choices are Tanqueray, Broker's, and Seagram's Distiller's Reserve. Running close behind these would be Boodles at 90.4 proof, and Bombay Dry at 86 proof.

I think the problem with Mr. Pacult's review was not simply the fact that he didn't like it, but the way he chose to describe it. Honestly, I was wondering if perhaps he was eating the cork instead of drinking the gin. I doubt if, say, Michael Jackson would have described a whiskey in such terms. At least he had the decency to say that if he gave a whiskey a low rating, that it merely meant "Perhaps I was less than enthusiastic; you might love it." I've only gone through 2 bottles of Bluecoat, and both were fine. I think the hue of the bottles themselves were different, but it might be that the empty one I had sitting around is sun-faded (I just can't bring myself to throw those bottles away), otherwise, the taste seemed the same. JAZ, I laughed at your comment about the Smith & Cross Rum. You don't even want to know what I think Pyrat tastes like. So here's a question: Even though this thread is about New Generation Gins, these days the stores seem to be full of them. So let's say one wanted to take a few steps back away from New Generation Gins and search out more juniper-forward gins. Other than Tanqueray, Beefeater, Gordon's, Boodles, and Seagram's, what are some other good juniper-forward gins that one should look for? (And don't say Junipero, because it doesn't seem to be very widely distributed).

I made this too. I thought it was okay. I think part of the problem is that, as you pointed out, the taste is somewhat of a surprise. Sounds sweet, tastes a little tart and bitter. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's a little jolting when it's not expected. I think the CAF is wasted in that half & half vermouth pairing, and since the sweetness factor of Italian vermouths is all over the place, you don't what you'll end up with. I thought this was kind of like a tart Martinez. But you're right, the soda makes it a bit watery. Nevertheless, I still found it somewhat refreshing and bracing in the manner of a Negroni (on the rocks) or an Añejo Highball. I might tinker with this and try it as cocktail (no soda).

I have to agree with this. The websites are fun to poke around with once in a while, but I don't rely on any of them as my primary sources for recipes. Many of the better ones don't seem to have been updated in quite some time, and the ones that allow unmoderated user entries are atrocious--filled up with useless frat-boy scattershot concoctions with puerile names. Some of them have some fun widgets, though, like CocktailDB's Mixilator or The Webtender's In My Bar feature which allows you to select all of the ingredients you have at hand and then lists all of the drinks you can make with what you have.

Molotov? More seriously, I experimented with unaged rye whiskey from West Virginia in a few cocktails. I'd suggest trying some kind of sour. Try some lime juice and something sweet. You might need another accent ingredient or two for flavor. The problem is, you don't know what the proof is, so it could be tricky to get the proportions right, so a bit of trial and error will be involved. Alternatively, you could try to get hold of a small cask and attempt to age it for a while, see what happens. That could be interesting.

The books I seem to have open in front of me most often are (in alphabetical order): The Craft of the Cocktail by Dale DeGroff The Essential Bartender's Guide by Robert Hess The Fine Art of Mixing Drinks by David Embury The Official Mixer's Manual by Patrick Gavin Duffy Vintage Spirits and Forgotten Cocktails by Ted Haigh (that was true even when there was only the nearly-impossible-to-hold-open-while-making-a-drink first edition!) There are many others that I have high praise for, but these are the ones that see the most use.

I use a number of different things, but haven't really settled on a favorite. I've got the glass Mini Measures (1 oz and 4 oz sizes), but with those, the only way I can really see the markings is to orient the set of markings I'm using to the back and look through the opposite side of the glass (if you follow me). I have the OXO stainless jigger and it's okay, but one or two of the markings are faint, and you need good light overhead. The lack of a 3/4 oz mark has already been mentioned, but I'll reiterate it. My problem with double-ended jiggers is that once you've used one end, it renders the other end unusable until you clean out the first end or you get drips. What I really want are those cylindrical jiggers pictured in the Difford's Guide, but he doesn't say what they are, and I keep forgetting examine the photos with a magnifying glass to read tiny maker's name inscribed on the bottom of one of them. They look awesome and just might be what haresfur is looking for as well.

I've only had the Lunazul reposodo which lent itself quite well to mixing, but I imagine the blanco is good too. I've also had the Milagro blanco and that's a very nice tequila, and a decent price for a 100% blue agave. Disclaimer: I'm not much of a connoisseur of tequila, so take my assessments with a lick of salt.

I build Negronis and Gimlets and I don't see why there would any advantage to any other method. But I suspect many bars build a lot of drinks that ought not to be made that way. Too often I've gotten drinks that weren't even mixed--you can see the stratified layers of ingredients in the glass. The mixing is left to the customer. Classy.

I do have CAF! Surely I would have thought to use that in the Manhattan, wouldn't I? Must revisit this. The half and half proportion makes sense. And I've got Kubler Absinthe for the Sazerac (actually I most likely did already make this one, which I thoroughly enjoyed). Now, the Slope sounds intriguing to say the least. I found the discussion of it here. I don't have Punt e Mes, but I have Gallo "Sweet" vermouth, which is almost as bitter as Punt e Mes. And I have the R&W Apricot, so it should all come together. Thanks for the tips.

For traveling with booze and cocktail-making apparatus, I use this for the bottles: Six Bottle Wine Carrier. It has a small pouch in the front that holds a couple books. In this you'd be able to carry 3 bottles, your two shakers, a bar spoon, and a few small bottles in one cell (what I like about this is the divider that keeps the bottles from clinking together). I've managed to cram way more than six bottles into this thing. And for the implements, I simply went into Office Depot and picked up a small travel organizer for about $12 (it's actually a toiletries bag), something like this (I can't find the exact one I bought): http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/976425/Hanging-Toiletry-Bag/ Except for shakers, a bag like this will hold just about every bar tool you've got. I use the pouches on the ends for bitters. I've also considered something like this Mobile Workmate which looks like it would hold a lot of stuff in an organized manner. There are many laptop bags that could also be adapted for this kind of use. All of the travel bars I've looked at, while attractive, just seem too small and too expensive. Plus, they all come with bar tools, so you're paying for something you wouldn't need.

Not that this is the drink I would necessarily recommend it for, but if you've never made a cocktail with Thomas Handy you are missing out, good sir. Well I fibbed a bit there, Andy. I have made an Old Fashioned with it a couple times, and I did try a Manhattan, but something about it wasn't right, so I didn't repeat it. I should have said that I'd rather not experiment with it unless I can be sure of the outcome. What's the best way to make it work in a Manhattan? Just use less? What other drinks would you say it's worth using in? (we can move this offshoot to the Rye thread if you'd prefer)

Yes, it is a good article, and--three recipes! When I posted before, I hadn't yet read the last page. I actually tried the Provençal Martini first using the lavender infusion I put up last summer. I used a half-teaspoon and that was plenty. I must have put a massive amount of lavender petals in that stuff. I think I'll turn it in into a not-too-sweet liqueur. Anyway, the drink was excellent. However, I really want to comment on that Saloon Keeper's Daughter. A stroke of genius. It uses fairly common ingredients; nothing complicated, yet it really is an incredible combination. I was quite impressed. I had to make it with bourbon, though, as I'm out of rye at the moment (the horror!), except for my Thomas Handy which I refuse to use in a cocktail. Tomorrow I'll get some rye and will definitely make another one of these. I recommend everyone have a go at the Saloon Keeper's Daughter! THE LANDLORD'S DAUGHTER by Paul Giovanni Much has been said of the strumpets of yore Of wenches and bawdy house queens by the score But I sing of the baggage that we all adore, The Landlord's Daughter You'll never love another Although she's not the kind of girl To take home to your mother The Landlord's Daughter Her ale it is lively and strong to the taste It is brewed with discretion and never with haste You can have all you like If you swear not to waste The Landlord's Daughter [last two stanzas omitted in the interests of decency] --(from The Wicker Man)

Speaking of the Oyster House in Philly, someone here has been quoted and has a recipe in the Spring/Summer issue of the PA Wine & Spirits Quarterly. I'm going to try the Saloon Keeper's Daughter tonight. The drink, that is.

I love Diablos. If we're including highballs in this thread, a similar drink that I go back to often is the Rosarita Highball, one of Dale DeGroff's originals: 1 1/2 oz tequila 1/2 oz cassis 1/4 oz lime juice 4 oz ginger ale Cucumber slice for garnish

I just tried another item from Embury's book that seems to be unique to this book, although Embury did not develop it himself. It's the Westchester Special, which Embury states is the official drink of the Westchester Country Club. It uses common ingredients, but the uncommon thing about it s that it goes against many sensibilities of good cocktail mixing. It uses dry vermouth with bourbon instead of sweet vermouth, and it uses lime juice with bourbon instead of lemon juice. Furthermore, it uses these simultaneously, confusing the lines between a sour and an aromatic cocktail. 4 parts Bourbon 1 part dry vermouth 1 part lime juice Actually, it's very good. Better than it looks on paper. Should be in anyone's rotation of aperitifs. This a certainly a rare recipe. I cannot find this drink in any other source, book or internet, unless these three ingredients appear under some other name.

I just tried a couple versions. First, I tried an adaptation of Wondrich's version from Imbibe! I actually used a very tiny amount of creme de menthe. However, since I used a high proof rye, I used less total juice, deferring to TexasCocktailGeek's observation (also, Wondrich's recipe starts with 3 oz of rye). This wasn't bad. Very pleasant. Slightly dry. Not overly tart. 2 oz rye (Wild Turkey 101) 1/2 oz orange juice 1/2 oz lemon juice dash grendadine few drops creme de menthe Next, I improvised on the style of using more orange juice than lemon juice. I took the liberty adding orange bitters to it: 2 oz rye 1 oz orange juice 1/2 oz lemon juice dash simple syrup few drops orange bitters I liked this much better. So far, I think two important aspects have emerged: 1) keep the juice-to-booze ratio low, in the tradition of David Embury, so that you can still taste the rye 2) although the use of orange bitters or orange juice was supposed to be an either/or issue, I think the orange bitters does something special for the drink, especially if you are dialing back the lemon juice. One more comment. Although I think the boozier version tastes better, there is some evidence that this supposed to be more of a punch-style drink than a cocktail (Wondrich actually instructs to top off with selzer), which case, a lot of juice might be more appropriate.

So, I'm experimenting with Lillet Rouge. I bought some for two reasons: because it's almost never called for, and because it's rarely talked about. And because it's readily available in PA (which is strange for an item that so many people have reported being unable to find). Ok, three reasons. I tried it in a Negroni variation subbing it for the vermouth. The result is a drink that is distinctly different than a Negroni, but very tasty. I'd say the combination works successfully. Also tried it in a Deshler, subbing it for the Dubonnet. This worked even better. While the Lillet Rouge is certainly not the same as Dubonnet (and many feel it to be a poor substitute), the Deshler didn't suffer from using LR. Like the Negroni, a little different, but quite good. The biggest failure was in attempting to create something original. It seemed logical that this ingredient should be able to work with brandy somehow. I tried 2 parts brandy, 1 part Lillet Rouge, dash of Grand Marnier, and orange bitters. The result was actually kind of bland and uninteresting. Maybe too much brandy. There still might be the genesis of a decent drink there. There really is a dearth of recipes that actually call for the stuff. Even Lillet's own website lists only 3 drink recipes (none of them very tempting), while they list a whole slew of recipes for the blanc. As some have already suggested, LR is very good straight (on the rocks), and that may well be its best use, but I see no reason that other good uses for it can't be discovered. Maybe if they called Lillet Rogue . . .

Sam, are you sure that M&R's Rosato is merely a blend of the two? I haven't had it, but an ad for it that I just saw which makes it seems like a different product altogether. The copy from the ad reads: "A crafted blend of light Mediterranean aromatics including citrus fruits and crisp raspberry complemented by soft notes of cinnamon and nutmeg." That doesn't suggest a blend of dry and sweet vermouths to me. Here are some of my favorite cocktails that use dry vermouth in different ways: The Rose is a good one. 2 ounces dry vermouth 1 ounce of kirschwasser 1 tsp of raspberry syrup. Very dry. Lovely floral/fruity taste. Vermouth Cassis. Dry vermouth with a dash of creme de cassis. Japalac 1 ounce dry vermouth 1 ounce rye or bourbon 3/4 ounce orange juice dash raspberry syrup Bamboo Equal measures dry sherry and dry vermouth Dash of orange bitters The Reverse (some call it upside down) Martini is a great way to use up dry vermouth. 2 ounces vermouth, 1/2 ounce gin. Bitters if you want.

Last summer I steeped a bunch of highly frangrant Hidcote Lavender petals in a small bottle of Everclear for a couple weeks. I strained the flowers out, but haven't attempted any further filtering. Right now, it's still just lavender-flavored Everclear, so I'm wondering where I should go with it from here: Add sugar and water to make a lavender liqueur (creme de lavender?)? Add just water to reduce abv and make a lavender flavored vodka? Add other ingredients toward creating a lavender bitters? (though I doubt the lavender flavor is intense enough for that) Should I filter it any further? (There are no visible particulates, but it has a kind of greenish tinge. But I don't want to remove any flavor either)