Wilfrid

Like they said, "Wow!" was the first words out of my mouth.

Yes. But water would do. Don't forget the salt and pepper.

Barnes & Noble may not be bad. But the effect of its expansion on smaller specialist stores is bad. B& N have lots of books, but they lack depth in some subject areas. Now Posners has gone, I am relying on the St Marks Bookshop - or, increasingly, on the internet. Sorry, was that irrelevant?

France "the most powerful state in Europe"? When? I don't know. I am groping to understand what you're saying. Why are the [i[bureaucrats important as such? The British gentry - the squires and landowners - and the mercantile bourgeoisie, were a large, well-distributed and prosperous class. I just don't see what one might call a difference which makes a difference. If you see what I mean. I am also not sure exactly what we're trying to demonstrate. I think there's a danger of taking it for granted that, during the nineteenth century, cuisine at the domestic level was "better" in France than it was in Britain. It was certainly different in terms of ingredients and cooking techniques. Yes, French domestic cuisine has travelled around the world, and we've explored some of the reasons on this thread. Yes, French domestic cuisine continued to blossom through most of the twentieth century while British cuisine went through a gastronomic dark age. But a difference in sheer quality at the domestic level remains a presumption until we get some data.

Oh good, I can tell my embarrassing story again, because someone might not have heard it before. The wife of my oldest friend is an enthusiastic cook, but I have always had some reservations about her skills. One day I visited them, and she said she was going to cook Mexican for me. I braced myself, but the meal was edible. As I finished it, I heard myself say, "Well, that was surprisingly good." Ever wished life had a rewind button?

Aha. So Gray are undercutting Danny Meyer by a mere $1.50, not $2. That sheds a whole new light on it. I wonder if Danny's carttender expects a tip, though?

Grays Papaya is 25 cents a dog? It's a while since I've been. In fact, my last visit may have been pre-Guiliani. Damn, that's a deal. It would actually pay you to buy a couple of Gray's dogs, take them home, and float them in your own garlic/coriander water for a while.

'Twas indistinguishable from you so-called theories, you old charlatan!

Steve, you're confusing the effects, if that's what they were, with the causes. I am interested in the causes. It can't be that the French had a bourgeoisie and the British didn't, any more than that the British had an aristocracy and the French didn't. I am still looking for the thread in which you wanted to raise, I think, the question about what the British were actually cooking and eating from the latter half of the nineteenth century through to the First World War. That might be interesting. Once we know what that cuisine was, we might be able to discuss its roots. This would be more satisfactory than attempting to explain an unknown outcome by reference to irrelevant facts. Although the latter exercise might be more amusing.

Yes, ridiculous indeed, but not poor. And they had plenty of servants, and employed cooks. As did the American upper class way into this century. Sorry, Oraklet, I'm just emphasizing some things that Steve never wants to accept. Yes, I did wonder whether I had contradicted myself. I have been taking information from a variety of different sources, and I do not claim to have thoroughly digested it all. It's an unshakeable fact that the French monarchy was restored in the nineteenth century, and that a fairly subtantial wealthy, titled, landed class survived at least into the early part of the twentieth century. How does this fit with the claims that French chefs retreated abroad after the Napoleonic wars. Well, it's possible that the relocation has been exaggerated in the sources I have read. Maybe it was a much smaller phenomenon. It's equally possible that the class which had formerly employed private chefs remained comparatively impecunious for some years following the wars. I am not sure which is true. I would be interested to know more about the use of the same techniques in French home cooking and haute cuisine. I had thought that the differences were more pronounced than the similarities, and I'm a little confused here. In the period we're discussing - primarily the nineteenth century I suppose - the English gentry (non-titled, landed) were a huge and well-distributed class, and I thought the bourgeoisie was pretty substantial too. And I am not aware of any particular shortages of produce. Obviously there was home cooking throughout England, so what exactly is it that the French had, at this level, that the British didn't?

Something I discussed briefly with Nick over a glass at Zum Schneider: some of the limitations on what a club chef can do seem to me analogous with limitations on what a corporate chef can do - about which i know slightly more. A very limited clientele, as Steven observed; not necessarily adventurous eaters; perhaps saving their exciting meals for restaurant dining; not looking for any surprises. Is that fair, Nick?

I remembered I started a thread on that Wine Spectator issue. It was right here all the time.

I do love it when people post sensible things like that. Thanks

Filleted saddle of rabbit, diced with liver and kidneys, stir fried with onion, garlic, ginger, spices, soy sauce and chow mein noodles (shop bought, but good). Minor burns to inside of right wrist.

Me too. And it occurred to me I've not previously eaten there in the summer. I don't suppose, if I go in August, they'll be serving huge slabs of warm saucisse en brioche. But maybe I'll be lucky.

I didn't know hot dog carts generally prepared their dogs in a broth flavored with garlic, coriander seeds, onions and bay leaves. That makes the usual $1.50 dog a real bargain! I guess Danny Meyer's buying another yacht with the extra pennies.

Yes, I looked to, and no sign of it. Maybe it was another eGullet dream. I'll try to dig out the hard copy, but if it's in the Bronx stacks, you may have to wait until next week.

Yes, and British agriculture and food production was centralized and run by the newly created Ministry of Food, with predictable results, whereas the French just carried on largely as normal. Britain didn't start to reconstruct its food industry until the mid-1950s. But we've told him all this before, and posted links to the approrpiate history pages. He don't want to know.

1. I'll check tonight, but I think my copy is in the library at the country estate in the Bronx. To narrow it down, I am fairly sure it was this year, that The Four Seasons was the cover story, and that it was either the Restaurant issue or the issue where they give out Awards to restaurants for their wine cellars (if those are two different things). 2. Well, steak. That's a thread I thought about starting: Isn't steak boring? I like to eat a good steak about once every three or four months, but it's way down my list of preferred foods, and I do see it as a "safe" option for people who don't like challenging textures and tastes. What do you think? I'll get killed, won't I? On the other hand, I can quote the Blessed Liebling in my defense.

And how reliable is food memory? Whenever I eat really good chicken, I think - ah, that's what it used to taste like when I was a kid. But how the hell do I know? I doubt that I really do.

Well, with Wine Spectator practically devoting an issue to the place earlier this year, maybe something is needed to shake their complacency. I tried using it as a place to take clients who needed to be treated but might not want challenging cuisine. Trouble is, they didn't think much of it. I went back to using Aureole instead . Off the subject, I know, but one depressing thing about being able to take a client out is when you know they just want to eat some chicken or a steak and will feel uncomfortable with anything else.

Yeah, it's not like you throw a stick and we all run after it like a bunch of dumb dogs. (Huh - who am I kidding? This thread will be twelve pages long tomorrow.)

As far as you can tell, Steven, are they still packing 'em in?

Thanks, Nick - that was the one!

Thanks for the background, Nick. I think twenty years without a change at the top speaks for itself. But I guess they're making money. Now, didn't you have an anecdote about this place?