jkim

I don't think you're likely to find any avantguard cuisine in Korea at all. Labour is generally cheap in Korea (well, compared to the white world), and thus people generally do not go for labour intensive luxuries. If a korean had 10 man won (about $100) to spend for a meal, I think he would rather prefer to eat at a lobster place or a nice japanese style fish place with lots of sukedashi, rather than an avantguard restaurant. And then there is always dog, which is pretty expensive as food goes. And if a Korean has more than that to spend on his meal (i.e. the $300-400 per person commonly dumped into food & wine degustation), he's more likely to spend it on business clubbing (room sa rong). Please avoid western restaurants like the plague while you are there. They are awful. The best western you'll experience is likely to be "family restaurants", such as Bennigans, TGI, Outback, etc. Otherwise stick purely to local. Local is cheaper and tastes a hell of a lot better. My friends and I always enjoyed going to ZenZen (near back of ASEM tower) and having some pork bellies with soju, followed by Jug Jug (pub near sam sung hyun dae shopping tower) for some beer, and finish with Chun (business club near chung dam station) drinking with lovelies.

Anyone going? Sounds exciting. A good chance to eat dishes from Jacques Raymond and Matt Wilkinson in a single sitting (or standing)... Never tried Jacques but heard good stuff from many friends. As for Matt Wilkinson, I first ate some of his food back when he was head chef of Alevansi, and boy was I impressed (with the taste, not the value). It was rather expensive, considering it was 100 bucks a pop and I was still hungry afterwards we had to go to a Japanese store for Ramen and Tempura. But I think that was the best french I've had in Melbourne... I believe the website is: http://www.tastefestivals.com.au/ And it's on next weekend?

LOL, Verge was the Japanese restaurant that I didn't mention the name of that I mentioned was highly disappointed with in the other thread . No idea about the other 2. But if creativity is your thing, I guess verge will satisfy your curiosity. Reference

Any idea when this place opens? Everytime I walk by, it's closed. As I understand, it's a no bookings first come first served establishment? Also has anyone actually tried Jacques mentioned earlier in this thread? What was the experience like? I've heard some good passing by comments about it from a couple of friends, but no indepth comments and have not been able to try it myself yet.

PCL, So you won't deny your hostility? Kanga, I've had the opposite experience as you at some other places, who I felt were trying to be too original. To me, creativity comes second to taste of the food. I was highly disappointed at some places that had very good reviews (i.e. the Japanese place at the corner of Little collins?? or was it flinders lane?? and Spring; or Mercers) because I thought the food didn't really taste that great. I haven't seen any negative reviews IRT these places, not that I'd been actively looking. The positive reviews, which I saw before visiting, were the reason for me going in the first place.

How was my comment racial? That I assumed you were a white person from the way you speak, and that my assumption on Tea House is that its owners would be Chinese? Am I confusing racial with racist, and you don't mean what I think you mean?

I'm sorry that you feel that way. But I would like to mention that I think it is you who make baseless comments, and not I. I said I don't understand why you are being protective. I did not hint that you are a share holder. Actually, if I am free to voice my views about you, I will (Edit: in order to avoid further misunderstandings between us). I think you are a white person, and thus unlikely to be a shareholder of the establishment. I said "for reasons unknown to me", because it seems to be one of the following: 1) You are a huge fan and can't discuss like objective/critical *customers*. 2) You are egotistical and do not honor other people's tastes. Your tastes must always be right. Other people's experiences either didn't happen or their tastes are weird if they disagree with your experiences. 3) You have something against me and just like to disagree to me. To me, you come across as very hostile and condescending. It doesn't look like you address comments to other posters so. Maybe we got off on the wrong foot or something? Do you want to share your reasons for being so?

I've had Chinese at various other restaurants, both pricy and not... well I think I have cantonese food at least twice a month. The snow pea sprouts is a very common dish at all establishments. However, I've found that the liberal use of garlic (visible chopped garlic) is common. It looked (and tasted) like Tea House had westernized the dish by frying only a small amount of garlic lightly in oil and then discarding the garlic as to only use the oil. Generally the chopped garlic would be served with the dish. So i'm not sure where you're coming from with that comment. ← Surely your preference to have the chopped garlic in the dish supports PCL's point about you preferring strong flavours? ← My response was actually not in response to that section you've cut but the "flavouring for dishes such as the snow pea sprouts (which happens to be a favourite) is quite subtle." part of it. To state that something "is so" would suggest that this is the rule of thumb for the particular dish, and not a house variant. Thus I have offerred, based on experiences, insight to the contrary. As for my preference on flavours, it really depends on the dish, and how much natural flavour of the main ingredient would be desired. For example, when consuming fresh live lobster sashimi, I would not tend to use any more sauce than a hint of salt sesame and sesame oil. Something like the standard wasabi and soy combination would overpower the flavour. BTW it's fine to have house variants. There's nothing wrong with that. Variant dishes have been known to become completely new classics throughout history. For example, the popular Bu Dae Jji Ge, was just a variant of Kim Chi Jji Ge, using cheap manufactured ingredients, but became popular so gave birth to a new name. I have nothing against variants, as long as they are acknowledge as such, or have some kind of hint what to expect. My thought on variants is that customer expectations drive half the satisfaction gained. If you were feeling in the mood for some garlic, and you ordered a particular dish based on "in garlic sauce" and it did not taste like garlic at all; or you were in the mood for some spicy dish and ordered based on "in Sichuan sauce", and it was not spicy, then of course you would be disappointed and down rate the food. If you ordered a house specialty, or some tagged variant, then you would be more receptive of newer flavours. And PCL, I disagree with the "refined" comment, and feel you are being over-protective of the establishment for reasons unknown to me.

$20 worth of food per person? or all up? and how many ppl if all up. Sounds like another one for the list. we've just moved office to nearby so might have a stroll there tomorrow... ← $21.50 all up. It was $8 for the noodles, $7 for the pork, $1 for the soup and $5.50 for the dumplings. Edit: Pretty damn cheap feed, considering we (2 people) were pretty full 3/4 into the meal.

I went to this place called Du Ha or some crap today. Right next door to Westlake Yum Cha house on Ltl bourke. It was completely empty, with a total of 7 customers for lunch when we were eating. Lunch menu was great. The dishes were between $1 - $9 like it was advertised on the door. But the waitress didn't give us lunch menus when we sat down. We had to ask for the lunch menu. We sat down and had the combination noodles, duck bone soup, shredded pork with chilli, and pan fried pork dumplings. We expected that since it was a pretty pricy restaurant (according to the dinner menu), the food would either be crap or small portions. We were pleasantly surprised to find that the portion size was large (we were full on $20 worth of food) and the food was actually decent. Granted, the pork chilli dish was done better at dainty, it was still far superior to other restaurants that claim to "specialize" in sichuan food (i.e. postdeng). The duck soup was better here than old kingdom, although slightly too salty. The combination noodles, at $8, had to be the best value for money dish in melbourne. We were impressed enough to decide that we'd return for the $40 per head dinner menu some day.

I've had Chinese at various other restaurants, both pricy and not... well I think I have cantonese food at least twice a month. The snow pea sprouts is a very common dish at all establishments. However, I've found that the liberal use of garlic (visible chopped garlic) is common. It looked (and tasted) like Tea House had westernized the dish by frying only a small amount of garlic lightly in oil and then discarding the garlic as to only use the oil. Generally the chopped garlic would be served with the dish. So i'm not sure where you're coming from with that comment. As for the beef, the dish name was "beef in Sichuan sauce", and was basically 2 very nice and tender steak fillets, covered with disgusting sauce that was done completely wrong. And also, if i were to go for a beef / mustard steak, I'd go to a steak house (i.e. meat & wine co @ southbank) or a western restaurant (i've found the steaks at the point or nr. 8 to be great) rather than a chinese restaurant. The whole point of having a beef dish at a chinese restaurant is to have it their style...

I would have thought these things would be easy to find in Sydney. Try anywhere in Strathfield. I swear, we don't even need to know a word of English to get around in Strathfield. I remember this one time, there were like...

Went to tea house on Sunday. Was decent food, but I didn't understand the hype. I could tell the quality of ingredients was top notch, and the reason for the price. However, the sauces were all wrong for some of the dishes we had. We had: - Lettuce thing. (some call it lettuce delight, lettuce bao, etc). Was nothing special. Just stock standard, neither good nor bad. Nothing memorable. - Peking Duck. Was also stock standard and nothing to really be impressed with. Pricy tho. - Salt and Pepper prawns. This was actually done pretty well, and was the only dish we had that I felt that everything was done right to. There was no complaints from anyone with this dish in regards to the food. Only drawback was that I could get something 80% as good for 1/2 the price at QV. - Sweet & Sour pork. This was actually not even as nice as the cheaper establishments i.e. dumpling king. The pork was good, but the sauce was fail... - Sichuan style steak. The meat was great. Very tender and nice. Pity the sauce ruined the entire thing. The sauce was completely wrong. It's extremely hard to describe why it's wrong... but it is. Once you taste it, you'd know. These guys need to take sichuan lessons from the cheaper counter parts i.e. Dainty Sichuan foods. - Snow Pea sprouts in Garlic sauce. There was no garlic. It was like eating snow pea sprouts lightly tossed in hot oil + salt. Very very disappointing. It's a pity I couldn't try the "w??? chicken?", which people say is good here. Maybe that dish might have changed my opinion? I won't be returning for it, though. Not worth the money to eat quality ingredients cooked wrong. I could do that cheaper at home, AND do it better.

I had the answer in front of me all along. Name: Shira Nui Location: 247 Springvale Rd Glen Waverley VIC 3150 East Ph: (03) 9886-7755 Genre: Restaurants Cuisine: Japanese Business Hours: Lunch Tue-Fri noon-2pm. Dinner Tue-Sun 6pm-10pm Average Price: $28.0 Price Guide: Entrees $5-$14.50; sushi and sashimi $17-$30; mains $12-$24

Do they do lunch on weekends? I can't go there during weekdays because I work in the city. On another note, I'll list some places I went to fairly recently with <my personal experiences>. Mercers: <very disappointed> With all the reviews surrounding this place I was expecting something special. Boy was I disappointed. I treat mum to a birthday dinner. My parents both had the roast veal. My wife had the snapper, and I had the duck. The snapper was NOT fresh. It had that subtle smell that says "hey I'm older than a day old, and the chef doesn't know how to cook me". The duck was a 1/2 1/2. The saucy part (wings?) was absolutely foul. The sauce was full of muddy curry from what I could tell, and it was just all sloppy. The breast was a bit better. The spices on it worked well with the meat for a very nice flavour. However, the meat was overcooked to be too dry, even in the middle. The veal was nothing spectacular... just a bit better than the average pub fare. I was NOT impressed and will not be returning. Italy 1: <surprisingly good> From the name and from the fact that this was a franchise, I really wasn't expecting much. But I was pleasantly surprised to find good food. Price was a bit iffy, but the food was good enough that my pocket didn't feel too sore. I guess the biggest surpirse for me was that this place didn't have raving reviews like the others on this list. The Point: <disappointing> The entre at the point was ... well... reason enough not to return. We ordered the assorted entre (5 different entre), and we were comparing them with the degustation at Alevansi, back before Wilkinson left and it became a crappy greek joint. For a AGFG 1 hat place, we were looking for much better tasting food than that. It wasn't the ingredients. The ingredients were fine. It was just the flavours. Original flavours can sometimes be good, but not always. We chose demure mains of steak and seafood risotto. These classics were extremely good, and we could see why the place was awarded from the mains, but disagreed with the award because of the inconsistency (bad entre). Breezes I've returned to this place quite a few times, and every time I found good food. I've never had the seafood there, which is the ultimate guide to freshness of ingredients, and maybe I should. But the food we have had to date has pleased me so far. Number 8 This is our favourite restaruant at Crown by far. It's a bit pricy, but the food made up for it. We found it strange that the Brasserie had a 1 hat rating while this place didn't, and the only thing that the Brasserie did better (in my opinion) was the bread rolls (which has to be the nicest in Melbourne). The Melbourne Oyster Bar OMG this place is so overrated and so completely crap. I have no idea why people enjoy this place. All the seafood is stale, and heavily salted in order to mask the staleness. I dumped 350 bucks (for 4) here to eat crap food that tastes like a mixture of salt and urine. I can't believe so many people on the internet recommended this place...

Oh I'm not saying that they are using Korean seasoning. I am saying that Korean seasoning on sashimi is generally heavier, and many find it difficult to ascertain the quality of the fish under such seasoning. However I do know for a fact that the friend in question is capable of this, which is my reasoning as to trust his words on this matter. http://www.eatability.com.au/au/melbourne/shiranui.htm This is the only review I can find at the moment that mirrors what my friend described. However, I am finding a lot of positive reviews from the Age Epiculture (which I do not trust, due to their glowing review of Goshen, a Korean restaurant in Fitzroy, and which I would say is pig food with too much sugar and salt [no msg though] to disguise the fact).

It is possible that between the time you went, and when my friend went, the place has changed. It's only a possibility but I think the other scenario is more likely. My friend went there about 2 months ago from the recommendation of some westerner workmates. I've eaten with the friend in question for over 15 years and know his tastes in regards to fine foods, and I trust his judgement, so am unwilling to pop $100pp on fish not worth that kind of money "just to form my own opinion". According to him, the fish was "only as fresh/stale as the stuff found at chain restaurants like Sushi Sushi, and highly disappointing compared to others at that price level such as Kenzan". For your information there is the old saying that "sauces hide the quality of the ingredients". Japanese sashimi seasoning / sauces are much weaker than any Korean variant, regardless how heavy. However, many Koreans, including my friend in question, can tell the freshness of the fish even with the heavy Korean dressing. So I highly doubt that the seasoning had fooled his palate. For example the typical Pusan sauce for raw fish consists of: chilli powder, chilli paste, white vinegar, sugar, salt, sesame oil, ground wasabi and a hint of soy. This is extremely heavy seasoning compared to anything the Japanese use. Until you try this sauce on fish and tell me honestly that you can tell the freshness of the fish, I will rather trust my friend's words than yours. I have also read at various other "review" websites, other comments that mirror exactly the experience my friend described. If you want, I will dig them up for you and link them.

I've been to Post Deng many times, and always thought it was inferior to several of the alternatives available. The only reason for returning was that they accept credit card, and Dainty doesn't, and I didn't have cash on me. Really think it was pretty terrible, and will not be returning once the shanghai place on Swanston street reopens after renovations (for sichuan foods, I go dainty when I have cash, and shang hai when I don't).

According to my friends (I have never been), Shiranui is a waste of money. Too expensive, for heavily seasoned stale food. Only the freshest fish is worth eating raw.

I'm not sure how fish markets work IR tuna, but as far as I'm aware, you can buy a whole fish early in the morning at the market (I usually buy whole yellowtail and salmon for my home-made sashimi needs). Can't you get a whole Tuna fish and cut the relevant bit (underside of the belly for toro if I'm not wrong) yourself? Granted, it would cost a fortune, but then you'd have a tonne of regular tuna sashimi, and bones for the traditional korean/japanese sashimi left over boullibouse (korean one is mae woon tang, japanese one not sure name of, only difference as far as I can remember is the liberal use of chilli powder/paste in the korean version, and sometimes miso is used in japanese version).

I can't believe noone here has tried Tai Pan (Blackburn). That's the best reasonably priced (i.e. under $25 per head) yumcha in town IMO. I would go to Red Emperor, but it's a bit too expensive (about $40 per head?). I thought Plume was not worth it, and wouldn't go back.

My thoughts to this thread: (my opinions on previously mentioned places) David and Camy's Noodle and Dumpling: They do do great noodles and dumplings as mentioned. However, both are heavily dusted with MSG. While eating, it tastes wonderful. However, all of their food has always caused me nausea and headaches 2 - 3 hours after eating (which is due to the MSG). Supper Inn: Always good food, but they're never open for lunch, and not the "cheapest" chinese in town. Pacific Seafood House: People say good things about this place, but I wasn't particularly impressed with any of their food. Dumpling King: OK food at nice prices during lunchtime, but fairly expensive for dinner IMO. Oriental Inn: I failed to be impressed by this place. Spicy Fish and Red Ant: For sichuan food, there is absolutely no reason to come to these 2 places. They are more expensive than the alternative, and not as well done (alternative mentioned below). (not mentioned so far) Sichuan food: Right near Red Ant is a place called Dainty Sichuan Foods. This place is cheap, and very good food. Best Sichuan food in Melbourne IMO, but opening hours are a bit weird. Old Kingdom: Smith Street, Fitzroy. This is the place to go for your Peking Duck fix. Cheap and very nice. Shang Hai inn: City... in some alley way. Best noodle shop in city and dirt cheap... but all the cutlery are dirty Tai Pan: Blackburn... not exactly "cheap" but my favourite place to go to for roast duck, suckling pig and yum cha (much cheaper than red emperor for yum cha).

Grill'd has been useless for a long time. When it first started, it was very good. The burgers were tasty and the pricing was good. But with more shops, the quality has gone down, the prices have gone up, and it has become a rip off. ← The last time I went to Grill'd (mid-2006), I thought it was quite good. I went to the Hawthorn (?) branch, on Riversdale Road, near Swinburne Uni.

Do you really want to use chemicals (alum) in home cooking? I'd prefer to stay with the egg-shells idea.

Apart from Chinese, have you tried any of the other asian stuff?