Matt_T

I'm going to be visiting a friend in the OC this weekend and wonder what the culinary highlights might be? Restaurants, with emphasis on uniqueness, or value? What about shopping opportunities for home cooks? I here there are lots of fashion stores in the OC, and wondering if there are also places to shop for a Sabatier blade or a Falk saute?

I finally had a chance to make these tonight....here's my first ever cookoff report. I used Mizducky's recipe from Recipe Gullet as a basis and tweaked it a little. Instead of uncooked rice I used cooked barley, and that part came out great! Interesting texture and earthy flavor. The seasoning looked a little light so I nearly doubled it, to a short 1/2 teaspon of salt in the filling, but the rolls were still a little bland so next time I will use 3/4 teaspoon for 1 lb beef. Instead of tomato sauce + water I used straight V8 juice, cause that's how I remember grandma used to do it. I cooked mine on the stovetop in an enameled dutch oven and used enough V8 (+ lemon juice and brown sugar) to cover the rolls....however the Creuset dutch oven sealed so well I got almost no evaporation and my sauce ended up at about the same consistency as V8 out of the bottle. Next time I will add a roux or thickener, or maybe finish cooking in the oven to get some reduction and brown the rolls. I simmered for 1.25 hours and the rolls came out perfect, beef cooked but nothing mushy, even the cooked barley still had good texture. The most fun part was picking the leaves off the blanching cabbage in my big stockpot! After draining the leaves I rolled the rolls pretty tight and had no trouble with them falling apart, no need for toothpicks or anything. Flavor was very good with a little added sea salt; I would have liked stickier sauce but even as is this was a very enjoyable meal. I served with egg noodles tossed in butter with a little onion and garlic powder and S&P. Looking forward to doing this again! Sorry no pics; I had the camera ready to go but by the time the rolls were ready I had hungry people clamoring to be fed. Nothing to take pics of now.

I saw the Creuset Dutch oven too....it was $168 for the 8 qt oval at Vacaville Costco. That's a pretty good deal for 1st quality, though you can get a similar (maybe better) price anytime on a cosmetic second down the road at the Vacaville LC outlet. They had different colors, red and blue at least, at the Vacaville CC. I also noted the Tramontina sku as promised, but unfortunately can't find the scrap of paper I wrote it down on! But it is definitely called the Tramontina 5 quart stainless deep saute, if that helps anybody.

Good post! My wife grew up in Hong Kong and is an avid home cook. Over 15 years of marriage we've gone through over a dozen woks trying to translate the techniques she grew up with to houswares available in America....with that introduction here are some thoughts: First, it you really want to get wokkin' you need a good sized wok. We generally cook for two only, and find a 14" is the smallest wok that's practical for us. A lot of room is needed to stir-fry vigorously without flinging food all over the kitchen. At least, I need a lot of room....my wife can cook for two in a 12" wok but watching her do it makes me think of somebody trying to dance in a phone booth. Anything smaller than 12" is a saucier. Lodge makes a 14" pre-seasoned, cast iron wok that's quite heavy but cooks well. We picked one up on sale for $40 and I've seen it for the same price on Amazon. It has an integral flat base for stovetop use but is round inside...best of both worlds! Heavy, though, my wife says too heavy...not just for handling but for control of heat. Great for dishes that require searing or browning, though, or deep frying. They may not be traditional but my wife uses nonstick woks a lot, probably more than the iron wok. They're lighter and easier to handle, and in addition to being handy for noodles and eggs the nonstick works fine for veggies and tofu...the iron wok only comes out when she wants to sear meat or fry fish. We've tried a bunch of nonstick woks and our favorites are the cheap ones sold at Asian grocery stores. "Joy Cook" is the brand we usually buy. I say "usually" because the nonstick coating only lasts a year or so - but recall she's using this pan over high heat about 3 or 4 times a week, so I don't think that's bad value for a 14" pan for under 20 bucks. We've also used the Nordicware brand from Costco and the Joyce Chen brand and in both cases the nonstick broke down much more quickly than in the cheaper woks, in a matter of a few weeks IIRC. Another material that hasn't been mentioned is anodized aluminum. We've had an old Magnalite wok (similar to Calphalon professional) for many years. It cooks great, better than an expensive "Clad" wok we tried or anything else we've had. The Lodge sears and deep-fries a little better but my wife prefers the responsiveness of the Magnalite for most dishes. I see some higher end, thick anodized woks from Taiwan in some of the Asian stores now, and they'd probably cook great. We've had some traditional round woks but currently all our woks, except for the hybrid Lodge, are flat bottomed. Round-bottom purists may scoff but my wife doesn't feel it really makes a difference. Unless you have a dedicated wok burner I'd suggest avoiding the hassle with the accessory ring that's necessary to keep a round bottom wok from rolling around your stovetop. The double loop handle is traditional Hong Kong style, but after using the Taiwan style with one loop handle and one long, western-style handle my bride has become a convert. Don't tell her mother. Don't worry about using acidic ingredients in an iron or steel wok. You don't stew for hours in a wok, and if it does eat away a little at the seasoning it's a simple matter to re-oil the wok before putting it away. True, it will take a few uses to regain it's natural non-stickiness....but you also bought a $15 Joy Cook nonstick wok for your sticky stuff anyway, right? Do wok under a hood with a powerful fan, and run it on high from the moment you turn the heat up. This is high heat cooking and things can start smoking without warning. And if you're using nonstick, the invisible fumes from an overheated wok can be toxic. Do get a high-domed cover for your wok. Covered steaming is an essential step in many "stir fry" recipes. Spun aluminum covers are very cheap at Asian supply stores, even in large sizes. Do leave that burger-flipper in the drawer and invest a few bucks in a nylon or bamboo wok "shovel." These materials will make your nonstick last much longer, and the shovel shape really is necessary for the curved end to match the inside of the wok. Happy wokking, and remember: "It's stir fry, not stare fry!" MT

Sorry, I don't know....looking closely at the pics it looks the same length, but the large slots may be narrower. This was my main concern as most blocks have slots 2" wide, and won't fit my 10" chef (or other blades I covet). Also, no cleaver slot in the smaller model. MT

About the Tramontina saute - make sure you ask. Last time I asked, a Costco mgr told me they could order stuff that other Costcos carried (non perishable, I'd assume). That was a few years ago but hopefully it's still the policy. I have to do some shopping there tomorrow and will get the sku to post. MT

This sounds good! My mother was of Polish descent and cabbage rolls were a regular item, especially when we visted her mother. I think Grandma called them something like "gah-WUMP-key", but she was not a native speaker. I've never made them myself, though, so this should be a fun experiment. About the recipe using gingersnaps - Are they supposed to be crushed, to thicken the sauce? I have a hard time imagining a layer of cookies on top of the rolls. I think grandma's sauce was mostly (or entirely) V8 juice but I like the idea of the sweet and sour sauce. Another question - am I missing the place where new Cookoffs are announced? I only check this forum occasionally and seem to always show up late! Matt T

I tried the Kapoosh and didn't like it, so I'd suggest people buy from somewhere they can return it, just in case. I did a lot of shopping recently and wound up with the Wusthof model 7263. It's the only block I found under $100 with slots for a cleaver and my 10", extra-wide chef's knife. The block is about 11" long at the top so your steel will hang out the back an inch or so, but it will swallow 3 10" knives from tip to bolster with room to spare. Unfortunately, it has steak knife slots....I use mine for my growing collection of paring knives, but you could always putty them up. I thought I got a great deal for on EBay, a bit over $40 with shipping, but now cutleryandmore has it on sale for $40: http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=6210 MT

Thanks all for an interesting thread. I use a drop or two of biodegradable dish soap in a big mixing bowl full of water to soak my cauli, broccoli and similar. Smooth skin veggies get rinsed (and brushed if visibly dirty). Leafy veggies just get rinsed and spun. I think I'm going to try the vinegar solution instead of the soapy soak... bacteria being my primary concern. MT

In the cookware dept, the Tramontina 5-qt Deep Saute is a steal at $30. I'd been shopping for a large stainless saute for a while, and seen many inferior pans sold as seconds, for double the price. MT

Last time I was in SLT I tried the Global GF-33 8" chef's knife. It's in their forged line, thicker at the spine than the more common model G-2 8" chef (but still lighter than a Wusthof), and with a straighter, beefier handle and different edge profile. I really liked it. At the SLT I was in (Berkeley), the GF-33 was not on display and only came out when I asked the clerk if they had anything hidden away. MT

Thanks for the replies! Unfortunately they came after I had to log off for the day, but I get down to the Southland now and then and will file them away for future reference. My own web search turned up Ross Cutlery in downtown LA. This place sounds like it has some fun stuff and is in an old building of architectural interest: http://www.rosscutlery.com/ I planned to visit Ross but we got sidetracked and spent half the morning in an Asian market in Alhambra (or maybe Monterey Park)....a place called Wing Hop Fung at the NE corner of Garvey and Atlantic. I'd recommend it to anyone looking for Chinese appliances, sundries, tea, and the like. It has a good selection, and is newer, cleaner and better lit than many of the other markets in the area, or similar places we're familiar with in San Francisco. My wife is of Chinese descent and shops regularly in asian markets, and she was happy enough with the selection and value that we wound up spending about $200 on a wok, teapots and teacups, "ball" tea, various snacks and sundries. $200 may not sound like a lot but no one item cost as much as $20....we started picking things up by hand, then went back for a basket, and finally for a cart. They also had some higher-end anodized woks from Taiwan that went up to $150, and lots of electric appliances like rice cookers and electric kettles. One thing they didn't have was any decent knives or cleavers, nor much in the way of traditional iron or bamboo implements.. My favorite deal at WHF was a reasonably well made, western-style splayed saute pan, 10" diameter at the rim and maybe 3 qt capacity. It's brushed stainless with a 5mm thick, encapsulated aluminum disk bottom. The handle is a cast stainless affair, riveted, in a style that reminds me of Calphalon commercial or Tri-ply handles. Very nice pan for the bargain price of....$13! They had saucepans and a ~5 qt casserole in the same line but I only needed the saute. If you go to Wing Hop Fung, do try some of pastries at Kee Wah bakery, a few doors down in the same shopping center. I especially recommend the Portugese custard tarts. MT

My wife and i are in LA area for the long weekend and I was just wondering if there would be any neat and unusual cookware shops we should check out. We have Sur la Table and W-S in our own neighborhood; I was thinking of someplace where we might see unusual stuff like Sabatier carbon steel knives, Falk copperware, cool Japanese knives.... We have one more day here, we'll be in Alhambra in the morning, Irvine in the afternoon, and passing up through Glendale in the evening. Any suggestions? PS: fresh exotic spices would be another area of interest. Years ago we ran into a store in Milwaukee that had a fascinating assortment of spices, flavorings and house-made sauces and blends....nothing like that around our home base in the Sacramento area, AFAIK. MT

I saw a comment, forget which thread, that MC2 was thinner than it used to be but I thought it still offered thicker aluminum than the Stainless line? That was my impression, also, when I compared the two in a store some months ago, but I could be wrong, and the MC2 on display could have been old stock. More and more, I want to stop messing around and just get the Falk. (Hope my bride is reading this, Christmas isn't too far away..... ) As far as maintenance, anodized aluminum has been our mainstay since we got a set of Magnatlite Professional for our wedding 15 years ago, and I added some Calphalon Commercial pieces several years back that have seen heavy use. More recently, I've been adding stainless pans as I find them at the right price. Crud does stick to the anodized exterior of the CC more than with the stainless, but it cleans up quite easily with Barkeeper's Friend. The stainless on the other hand scratches much more easily, and water spots from our very hard water are a problem. The stainless must be towel dried immediately or they develop a pox of tenacious spots; the anodized I can let drip-dry in the rack and they don't spot at all. Bottom line: our stainless pans are a fraction of the age of the anodized, yet the anodized look newer. That's been my experience, anyway, others' mileage will vary of course, with so many variables in how people store, wash, and handle their pans. MT

Calphalon Tri-Ply is the only knockoff I've seen that's really similar in thickness to AC stainless. The stainless lining in Calphalon appears to be slightly thicker, which might be an illusion resulting from sloppier forming of the pan or it might really be thicker, which could affect performance (in a bad way). I tried a Calphalon Tri-ply saute and was not happy at all with the performance, but it was my first stainless pan and I probably didn't give it enough of a try to be fair before returning it. I've either owned or made close comparisons of Anolon, Tramontina, Macys "Professional," and Gourmet Standard clad pans, and they are all significantly thinner than AC stainless. The aluminum layer in a 10" Tramontina omelette pan is 2/3 as thick as a similar AC, at most. I've heard Cuisinart Multiclad Pro is similar thickness to AC stainless, but have never actually seen one of these pans. If I went AC I wouldn't go stainless anyway....I'd go MC2, or LTD if I were feeling flush. According to SLK's article these offer thicker aluminum layers, and my experience suggests the anodized exterior of the LTD should hold up better cosmetically than a stainless exterior. MT

I was watching Iron Chef last night (Batali v. Consentino, might have been a rerun but I hadn't seen it) and was wondering about Batali's knife. I couldn't see the handle but it looked like German pattern, all-carbon blade. I've seen other interesting knives on the show; one of Batali's sous-shefs was using what looked like a Glestain slicer for almost everything and Cat Cora's usual steel looks like a 300mm, ebony handled Mizuno gyuto. I'm not going to run out and buy whatever they use on TV, just curious if anyone else has noticed interesting blade choices on the show. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a fansite that gets into these kind of equipment details, if anyone knows of such please post a link. MT

I know what Paul is talking about with responsiveness. The big Tramontina I raved about above does take a long time to heat, which can be an issue when cooking several course on a 30" range. And it holds so much heat that when making a pan sauce the amount of deglazing liquid called for by most recipes boils away rapidly and completely to a sludge....even when added with the pan off the heat. I've learned to either add extra water along with the wine/brandy/whatever or (more often) just double the sauce to prevent this. But I'm not tempted at all to go back to thinner bottomed pans. In years of cooking with "clad" and thin-disk pans, I had great trouble getting a good sear or crust without burnt spots. The Tramontina sears beautifully, and the excess heat-retention "problem" of the thick-bottomed pan is easily dealt with by modifying the amount of deglazing liquid; much harder to get good results if I can't get a good sear in the first place. To be fair, I've only used knockoff "clad" pans that were thinner than All-Clad. Maybe the real brand name pans strike a good balance. My old Calphalon Commercial offers a great balance of heat retention and responsiveness, as close as I've had in my limited experience to ideal, but it's significantly thicker than the aluminum layer in All-Clad. MT

I've been shopping for saute pans lately, spent some time at various sellers measuring the thickness of disk bottoms... In the 5 qt size the Tramontina Covered Deep Saute at Costco is an amazing value. It is all-stainless exterior with a 7mm thick encapsulated aluminum bottom. The thick bottom makes this pan quite heavy but it does a great job searing meat and distributing heat. Riveted handles are hollow cast stainless. The rolled rim is a very nice feature that's unusual in this price range....most competing pans have rough edges along their stamped rims that will scratch backspalshes and cabinetry. I have used this pan extensively since buying it a couple of months ago and recommend it highly. An absolute steal at ~$30 including a good-fitting stainless cover. I wish Tramontina made a similar pan in 3-qt. Since they don't, or at least I haven't been able to find it, I'll have to say the best 3-qt saute I've seen in the moderate price range is in Emeril's stainless line, made by All-Clad. It too has a nice thick bottom and apparently good construction. I'll probably pick one up when it I see it on sale, as I can't bring myself to pay $80 when I got the larger Tramontina for 30. A budget contender in this category is the Ecko Eterna "skillet," which is straight-sided and really a saute to my eye. It is all-stainless with 5-6mm aluminum bottom and rolled rim. The stamped stainless handle is stay-cool but feels a little flimsy, especially on the 5 qt. Despite the flimsy feel I can report that a couple of Eterna saucepans with identical handles are holding up fine after 2-3 years of very rugged use at our firehouse, and the bottom while not as thick as the Tramontina is still thick enough to avoid hot spots over high heat. $22 for the 3-qt, 10" size and $30 for the 5 qt, 12 inch, last I saw at the Farberware outlet store. MT

I see a lot of bashing of the Rachel Ray oval pans, saying it's a gimmick.....but Le Creuset has been making oval cast iron for years; my Julia Child cookbook from 1962 recommends the oval shape. I have a 5qt oval LC that I like because it doesn't take up as much space on my 30 inch range as a round pot with same capacity. Lots of oval "fish pans" out there, too, from All-Clad and Mauviel among other premium brands. I picked up a Furi santuko, identical I think to the Rachel Ray though this one didn't have her name on it, at a discount store and I like the shape a lot. You can rock with it or use it to chop. Deep kullens good for slicing mozzerella or other sticky stuff, and dishwasher safe. It doesn't hold an edge as well as real Japanese knife steel....but then neither does a Wusthof or Henckels. I'm pretty happy with the value at $17, IIRC. I haven't tried Emeril's food products but I've made his "essence" from the recipe at foodtv.com and it's pretty good stuff. I have a cookbook I bought in New Orleans that is pretty good, but annoyingly often calls for "Cajun blended seasoning" and the essence seems to fill the bill. Emeril's anodized pans are pretty well made, thicker aluminum than Cuisinart and other brands. The stainless pans have thick disk bottoms and the sauce and saute pans look ok, though the skillet and chef's pan appear to have disks too small for thier diameter. Emeril's knives, by Wusthof, are crap. Cheap plastic handles, lousy balance, and don't hold an edge. I had the Santuko and sold it at a garage sale. I bought a Wolfgang Puck saute a month ago but returned it unused when I found a larger and much better-made Tramontina at Costco for the same price ($30) immediately afterwards. I like the looks of Alton Brown's salt cellar on TV, but balked at the price. In a local (San Francisco) asian housewares store I found similar products made of good heavy plastic....for under $2. The regular Kershaw Shun Classic knives get universally good reviews but I wonder about "Alton's angle." The way I hold a knife, angling the handle that way seems the opposite of what I'd want ergonomically. But I've never used one. MT

If you're watching video on a laptop (or scrolling through Egullet) while cooking, try covering the keyboard in plastic wrap...just make sure you don't cover any ventilation ports (which on a laptop are sometimes the speakers) when you tuck the plastic under.

My wife requested home-fried chicken a couple of days ago. I'd never had really good luck with frying, so checked out this thread before going shopping... First, a finding that may help some. Several people early in the thread had trouble finding small chickens....I read the discussion there and realized that trying to fry too-large chickens was one of the reasons I'd had trouble getting my chicken cooked through without burning the crust. So I went to a couple of markets, and saw no chickens under 4 lbs (I only look at the free-range chickens so can't say the mass-factory hens were as uniformly large). At my local co-op the smallest chicken they had at the meat counter was 4.8lb...that was in the "Jr." line! I asked the counter man if he had smaller, and he said no, nobody wants small chickens. But his senior, probably the dept manager, thought for a second and said that the chickens the co-op deli uses to make their prepared foods are quite small. I asked the counter man to bring me the smallest they had in the deli's cache....he came back with a 2.96 pound chicken. These are still from the same well-known free-range supplier, the mgr said, they just don't package these little guys for retail sale. He sold it to me at the same per-pound price as the "Jr" chickens from the same supplier....probably a good deal for the co-op, but I didn't mind paying a small premium for a special request, and, hey, I'm a co-owner of the co-op anyway. The small chicken fried up very well....6 pieces (I didn't halve the breasts) fit fine in my large dutch oven, which saved splatter compared to when I've used the skillet. And they cooked through while the crust was still at the GBD stage. That was the good news, other results not so good. First, I did some foolish second-guessing of proven recipes and tried to cut down salt in the marinade and flour; rewarded with very bland chicken. Second, I wasn't happy with the results of shallow frying. A couple of recipes above mention Crisco 1/2" deep; Alton Brown suggested 1/3" deep on his fried chicken episode of Good Eats. So I tried 1/2" (before adding chicken)....my chicken came out nice and crispy top and bottom, and the meat was cooked through to the bone, but the skin and crust along the sides of all pieces were very underdone and gummy. Today I talked with some coworkers who've been frying chicken for decades according to methods learned at grandma's elbow, and they said such shallow frying was hopeless - you've got to have at least an inch of fat, or enough to almost cover the parts. Makes sense to me after my experiment. Can those who adhere to the very-shallow frying method expand on any details in technique that might be essential to success? MT

Actually in my case it was the length...unlike many who buy jp knives online I was fortunate to have the chance to try in the store (Hida Tool in Berkeley) and knew the weight was ok. However with the 10" Forschner I don't like using the tip much, for example scoring an onion for dicing....it felt so far away from my hand and barely in control. So I hesitated to go longer. But the Hiro 240 handles so much better I have no trouble using the tip, and think 270 would be ok.Re: weights, I mentioned I tried the Tojiro DP 270 in a different shop, and it felt bulkier and heavier....looking it up now I see that, if the weights shown at JCK and Korin are correct, that knife is 11.5 oz while the Hiro 270mm AS is only 9.1, and my knife under 8 oz. I thought about going for the AS when I bought my knife but I'm glad I didn't - as I would have gotten the 240mm and been less-than-ecstatic about a >$100 purchase, instead of a <$50 one. Now the legnth issue has given me a fresh excuse to upgrade, and I'm tempted (wonder if Hida tool would give me some credit toward an upgrade, less than a month after purchase?). But I have so much to learn about using the Gyuto shape properly, sharpening the asymmetrical bevels....better to stick with my plan and hone my skills with the HC a while longer before going to a premium knife. Must....resist....lure of....shiny....steel.... MT

Thanks for the info, Bob. A "right handed rotation issue?" Sounds like I'll hold off on that one in a while....the gyuto is a heckuva slicer. The Hattori FH is a beautiful honesuki...I'd guess the slight curve to the edge makes it a more versatile knife. I have a 10" Forschner chef and recenty bought the Hiromoto HC 240mm gyuto. I compared the two and due to blade shape and the odd handle/bolster design of the Forschner the 9.4" Hiro actually rocks like a slightly longer knife. The curve of the edge is more pronounced forward, so in a typical rocking motion the point of contact between blade and board is slightly further forward with the Hiro. That said, I kind of wish I'd gone with the 270mm. The 240 is great but it's so light and handy I know I could handle the 270mm with no problem, and the bit of extra length would often be nice.MT

Good tip about peeling back the skin but leaving it attached. I think a forged Euro-style knife also causes onions and shallots to start to break up while dicing due to the wedging effect of the thick blade. I had a forged Calphalon parer that was basically a Wusthof Classic knockoff, and even when sharp it was not as good dicing shallots as a cheap stamped Victorinox. My new favorite knife for tiny dicing is a stamped, wooden handled 4.5" Japanese "fruit knife" I picked up for $6 at a local hardware store - including a wooden sheath. Very thin, and takes a keen edge. MT

Hope you find the technique useful, Richard! I posted in case there was anyone reading who might be put off trying the Japnese knives due to the asymmetrical bevel....as I was for some time. Also found this interesting from Bob: But I take it this would not be ideal? If as a right-handed cook who cuts in the usual western fashion - with knife in right hand, food guided from left and slices falling to right - I wanted the ultimate in slicing performance should I actually look for a left handed Yanagiba or Sujihiki?I think the Sujihiki is a "Western" knife but I assume that, just like many of the Western Gyutos, they are 70/30 or 80/20 bevel?