Jon Tseng

... said the former partner in The Criterion Marco Pierre White and Mirabelle Marco Pierre White. Loved the scallops and sauce nero, but boy does he look a bit of a plonker now...

Bummer Managed to completely miss this. For some reason I thought it was going to be in the Sindy not the Saturday edition. Andy cld you or someone else stick up the list. I'd be fascinating to see who/wats on it. ta J

Had a flick through the guide in the Virgin Megastore (of all places) on Friday. Still not widely available in London. One thing that jumped out was that many of the Haute Cuisine reviews did not seem to have changed from the last edition (e.g. Ambroisie, Le Cinq, Pierre Gagnaire pretty much verbatim from the 2005). Understandable I guess, given the cost but a bit of a bit disappointing given a) the significance of haute to the Parisian dining scene (especially for tourists such as us), b) these probably refer to meals in a 2004 timeframe i.e. well out of date by now and c) half the point of getting the guide is to slobber over the *** write-ups. Sure the rest of the guide is lovely but probably don't feel an urge to pick it up at the mo as haven't get any big splurges in Paris on the immediate horizon. J

<sigh> These are both sites founded by eGullet legacy members (many of whom, may I add, were formerly cherished members of the eG UK & Ireland community). The former is a closed site, the latter is open to viewing in the public domain. The gist of the content is largely similar to eGullet, but with more non-food discussion and a greater focus on the high-end. For reasons that are too long, hoary and twisty to go into these sites are persona non grata on eGullet, so I will refrain from providing further details. Happy to chat further offline via PM or email. Those two and this place are probably the best places to go to for UK and French chat en anglais. Also consider the Chowhound boards, although the discussion tends to be more of a "could someone recommend a visiting tourist a nice, friendly, classy, tasty, reasonably priced restaurant with a great wine list five minutes from my hotel" variety. Which is nice, but a bit f**king sterile the fifteenth time round. ta J

Although arguable the quality of Corrigan's flaship has suffered from the diversification. I had a pleasant firm * meal last time I was there but I hear mixed reports. It certainly has not moved forward. Also consider Heathcotes (now the Longridge Restaurant) which has gone from ** to zero stars during a period of empire building (although I think they did consciously try to simplify the focus too a couple of years ago, if I recall) J

<sigh> you clearly haven't been around eGullet and other online fora long enough to appreciate past uses and abuses of power. I'll tell you about it sometime on PM - you'd be surprised. As an aside other food boards (e.g. MF) have a system of rotating moderators amongst the populus for three month stints precisely because they wish to avoid this situation. But I suspect I'm veering off-topic. Of course any mods please feel free to delete this if I am. Although be aware that doing so would sort of illustrate my first point. l8tr J

Don't be silly. That's Latin. Plato was Greek.

London Eating - in general I find this site pretty useful. Coverage wider than eG or say Time Out guides and more up to date. Good for nooks, crannies and particularly local places. I think the reviews are perfectly tolerable, so long as u understand their limitations. Complements sites like eG, OA, MF and the like (which are more focused, particularly on the haute end) rather than competes. My thruppenceworth. J

Depend if you need to catch the last tube home mate... ← Fair point mate - maybe we need a Bacchus bus......? hmmmmmm ← wot like lolas on ice? but instead dispensing beetroot espuma and chicken skin?

Depend if you need to catch the last tube home mate...

If I recall right cassonades quite a light texture. Much lighter than say a pannacotta. More like a Japanese chawan mushi custard - falling apart almost - so your Mint experience sounds about right. As I said, the book has the banal feel of a ghostwriter, though none is credited. Thats isn't to say of course ghost-writers can't be a good thing. The reason why I feel many of Gordon Ramsays early books were so good (and later ones so naff) is that Roz Denny collaborated with him over the first three or four titles. J

Amen to that! His various bits of pig on a plate thing too good a dish to let run to seed to standards drop! Corinna what did you think of the book? I was actually sorely disappointed... It just didn't "feel" like it came from him My amazon.co.uk review: J

Um yes. And I'm sure the same logic was applied to J-C Novelli. And Leeds United. Access to capital is not the same thing as longterm commercial viability. No I'm not saying a haute chef has no choice but to branch out. Some are perfectly happy to carry on doing their thing without spawning dozens of brasserie half-bastard offspring and/or tv shows (david everitt-matthias at the champaignon sauvage, for example). You can live a perfectly tolerable existence without doing this. However it is undeniable that the real money in the haute cuisine world does come once one has made ones name and can start to cash in on spin-offs. That's simple commercial reality - invariably the spin-off brasseries are higher margin businesses than the flagship. My point is this: Those who generally succeed at the haute money-making game generally establish a solid reputation and firm foundation at the upper **/*** level before branching out. My concern is that Aikens, like J-CN before him, has not yet laid this firm foundation. J

The recent lunch I had there (my sixth visit in the last 12 months) was the best I have had. It's also very good value at £29. The scallop starter was particularly good, although there were only 3 and I couldn't swear that they were hand dived.... ← Haha lets not have another one of the "I had a good meal here" "no I had a bad meal here" arguments (or even its bastard half-child "I had this dish and it was orgasmic" "no I had the same dish and it tasted like poo") here Believe me there is no answer!

Uh-uh. Again you're getting confused mate. Your mistaking critical success and great food with commercial success. Surely you know the first rule of haute cuisine: Its a bitch to make money at the top end. You just ask Pierre Gagnaire *** Or Richard Neat * Or Marc Meneau *** Or Christine Mansfield Or David Cavalier * ad infinitum... J

No that came later. Nico's *** were when he was at the Grosvenor House. I'm talking about the mid-eighties when he had ** in London (I think Lordship Lane, but it could have been Rochester Row) and tried to ship out to Reading. At the same time I think he help running some of the previous establishments as Simply Nicos or thereabouts. But the whole empire-building thing never worked. Eventually he sold out entirely (although bizarrely they kept the Simply Nico brand name... I still remember one up Clerkenwell/Barbican way int he late nineties) and in time retrenched back to London, and the glory that was Chez Nico at Ninety. Richard Neat I am thinking of when he had * at Neat in Cannes (yes he did previously have ** at Pied a Terre) and then tried to migrate that back to London. I think he said he was going to be commuting madly between Oxo Tower and Cannes but again without the support it never really worked out (did Neat at Oxo ever get its * before it closed? can't remember). J PS yes Aikens retained the ** Richard Neat had, but I always think its a bit tough to deny him the honour of retaining them. Similar logic to whether Alain Roux has inherited his *** at the Waterside and Phillippe Rochat has inherited his from Girardet. Can argue about this til cows come home.

Mate You are failing to make the distinction between running a kitchen and managing the business. I have no doubt that Aikens knows what he is doing in the kitchen. As you will have read, I have every respect for his cuisine. However moving on to take over a business empire is an altogether different step up. Experience shows that the chefs who have been successful at making that step are invariably the ones who are least well-established **, and preferably ***. Off the top of my head: Empire-builders who have succeeded: *** Gordon Ramsay (ad infinitum) *** Paul Bocuse (viz his chain of geographically orientated brasseries across Lyon) *** Alain Ducasse (obviously) *** Marco Pierre White (possibly - a debatable one I admit) ** Christian Constant (clearly a very firmly established ** from his time at Les Ambassadeurs) Empire-builders who failed: ** Nico Ladenis (Reading and London was a bridge too far) * Richard Neat (Cannes and Oxo Tower) * Jean-Christophe Novelli (the Leeds Utd of the restaurant world) I suspect the difference is those operating at the *** have an established operating, infrastructure and support network (Gordon Ramsay restaurant holdings is a shining example). They also have bigger brand and on average much deeper experience. In contrast those who chance it from a * or ** are more often single operators who don't have that backing. And believe me if you are trying to run two or three operations whilst still keeping up standards at the flagship, you're going to need that support. I would not put Tom Aikens into the former category. He had two stars at Pied a Terre and is making a good fist of winning them back, but I feel for all his brilliance the consistency is not quite there. My concern is the distraction of his new empire will only detract from that. But again good luck to the guy. He's got all the bits to make it work, he just needs to put them together right. J

<sigh> yes I am very much in two minds about Tom Aikens and his burgeoning empire. The comparison with JCN is very apt. There is a feeling of someone trying to run- on the empire building front (also cf Richard Neat) before they can walk. I have always been a fan of Tom Aikens cuisine, but his book to be frank was mediocre (and had a heavily ghost-written feel, though none was attributed) and what I hear of Tom's Kitchen simply fails to excite me. My gut feeling is he should knuckle down and at least win back his two stars before moving on and trying to take over the world. Having said that its clearly too early to write off his no doubt immense talent. Heaven knows London needs more decent decent fish restaurants. For my part I hope Tom does end up as the next Christian Constant rather than the next Jean-Christophe Novelli. I just hope he has good business advisors (viz Gordon Ramsay and his father-in-law) and an understanding bank manager. J

Hullo T Welcome to eGullet! Shame about the tasting menu (though to be honest it does GO... ON.... FOR... HOURS so you probably saved yourself fifty quid on a cab home afterwards ) If you want to go again (which you do) mug Pip the owner - he posts on here and wld have read your comments ta J

Correct. L'Oranger achieved its first star in 1997 See the star history on the Mich site. http://www.michelin.co.uk/travel/red2007/index.htm

Longridge yo-yos down again. (deserved? undeserved?) Paul Heathcote must be right f*cked off... As, of course must Anthony(s) Overall a conservative selection, IMHO.

Muppet! Though I suppose ur so popular now u never need guides. Funny this sort of thing never happens to Gordon Ramsay eh?

Yeah like that Margots place in Padstein... How on earth did that make it into GFG?

Interesting. 1) NB first women chef to get *** was, of course, Eugenie Brazier wayback. Scratching my head trying to think of others. Does Elena Arzak count? 2) Just thinking about Paris four up, two down. Does that bring the total # Paris ***s to TWELVE or thereabouts? Oh how the days of the rigid pentarchy of Taillevent/Ambroisie/Arpege/Lucas Carton/Rue Poincare seem such a long time away. I really worry Paris ***s getting a bit commoditised now. Sort of devalues it when they're two-a-penny no? Hmmm. J

I think Andrew Turner's left to go here. ← Oh cheers for that Scott. Had completely missed that one. Probably explains by Bentley wasn't listed in this yrs Time Out Guide which I was puzzling over. Looks like get fed up of dishing up tasty, well executed, reasonably priced degustation menus and not getting any recognition and upped sticks. A shame, London's loss is Baghot's gain. Given it doesn't look like Pennyhill Park has got a macaron, I'd tip them for one too this yr now... J