nightscotsman

Thanks to everyone for their amazingly thoughtful, detailed and generous posts! First, to answer Chefette - yes, I am a 38 year old male living in Seattle, though I'm willing to relocate or travel to find the best educational opportunities and jobs. The Seattle market is generally disapointing when it comes to pastry, though the restaurant scene has come a long way in the past 5-10 years. I'm thinking my background in graphic design should help me with both the creative as well as the business aspects of pastry. This is an excellent point (love the "big glimmery blob" imagery - oooh, preeeetty ). I've tried to teach myself as much as possible through books and magazines as well as tasting wherever I can. mlpc's early experience emulating and absorbing the work of various masters rang a bell with me, and if I look back on what I've done so far I guess that has been my approach too (lately I've been metabolizing Claudia Flemming and Pierre Herme). But not actually being in the business I don't have the contacts with other professionals (other than here on eGullet) to know who is respected and who is just flash without substance. I do read "Pastry Art and Design" which is helpful, but obviously it is difficult and expensive to travel to where these people are working to meet them or experience their product. Steve's excellent and thought provoking post especially will have me considering the balance of school/classes and travel experiences (you mean I have to go back to Paris? Darn ). Yes, yes, yes! This is exactly where I'm coming from and what gets me excited about doing pastry. I know that this is a business and you have to create product that people want and that sells, but dessert can be so much more that what most chefs are willing to show us. This was also my attitude going into my career as a designer, and I've seen that it can be crushing when your work is compromised by creative directors (or exec chefs) with no vision, but I also know that there are people out there who do care about these things. With hard work, willingness to learn, persistence, commitment and some humility I hope to find these people to work with and learn from them. You are right here Steve. I made this mistake when I went to art school. I could have gone to Parson's or CalArts or RISD, but I chickened out (that and I had no money) and went to a local arts college - not a community college, but certainly not a school at the high end. Although I worked hard, got some lucky breaks and did OK, I know that I could have gone much farther faster had I had the guts to go to a better school. I don't want to make that mistake this time - nor do I have the luxury of youth and time to slowly work my way up. I'm not looking for shortcuts, but the right instructor with the right connections who's willing to take the time and effort to teach from a lifetime of experience can make a huge difference in setting you on the right path.

I have a couple darks and a white in the freeze at home...I'll have one tonight in your honor after work. Them darks is pretty good.

KarenS - Thanks for the advice . I have asked myself many of these questions, which is why it's taken so long to make my decision. I do realize there will be challenges and I believe I have the "passion and obsession" to overcome them, but I also know that no matter how much and research I do beforehand, there will be surprises. I will just have to cross those bridges when I come to them. May I ask what school you attended in France? I took a trip there earlier this year mostly to research and experience French pastry, chocolate and restaurants and was deeply inspired, though I know I only scratched the surface. Chefette - Thank you for your advice as well . Your suggestion about taking an alternate path than a full-on pastry program has been echoed by several other people I've heard from. I can see the advantages of this approach: less costly, more focused learning, specialist instructors, etc. I had forgotten about Ewald Notter and I will definitely look into his school. I do think learning classic techniques is very important, even if I end up not using them at all on the job. In design school I had a class on letterforms where most of what we did was hand draw classical typefaces and develop variations on classic fonts. When I starting working as a graphic designer, did I hand draw the type on my projects? Of course not, but from that experience I had a very deep understanding about why certain typefaces and letterforms are drawn they way they are and I could use them more appropriately and creatively. In the same way I want to get a very broad and deep exposure to techniques and ingredients so that I can better understand what has gone before and how to eventually launch my own vision. I keep drawing on my experience going to school and working as a graphic designer, because I think there are many parallels with pastry. One of which is that it is very possible to work as a designer - and even become great - without attending any art or design school, but it is rare that self-taught people get as far as those who have trained with good teachers, and it usually takes them much longer to get access to higher level jobs and respect in the industry. Sure there are mavericks that will always rise to the top no matter what they do. I don't believe that I am one of those people. My successes usually come from hard, focused work in a structured environment. This is why I've been primarily interested in schools with comprehensive programs rather than hopping between specialists, but I've been hearing this advice from so many people that I see I should take it more seriously. Thank you for the thought provoking replies

Yes!!! Can I ask which Bartell's you saw them at? As soon as I post this I'm running up to Broadway to check. I did have a white chocolate "Big Kat" Kit Kat that MsRamsey brought back from England (thanks ). Loved it! Clearly white chocolate and not "white coating". Can't wait to get my hands on the dark... Nooooo!! The Broadway Bartell had nothing - they suck . Though I did buy a Violet Crumble to sooth my dissapointment. I'm beginning to think this whole thing is a just a cruel joke and they don't actually exist.

Welcome annchang and thanks for the recipe. I'm really interested in trying it. How much sugar do you recommend using? Also, about how much ginger does it take to produce 20CC of ginger juice? Thanks

Thanks! wow, I've put on weight...

I've been in the process of making the decision to change careers to become a pastry chef for the last year. Having finally made up my mind that is what I really want to do, I've been given the kick in the butt, er... "opportunity" to follow my dream due to my recent layoff. Fortunately this was not completely unexpected and I have enough money saved up to afford to go pretty much wherever I want. During the past year I've done a lot a reading, research and talking to people, but now that it's time to take the next step, I find I could really use a little more advice in making the very important choice of which school to attend. Here's a bit about where I'm coming from and what I've done so far: I have no professional experience, but I have done quite a bit of practice and testing on my own. I realize that baking at home hardly compares with what a professional pastry cook or chef does, but I have done some fairly ambitious stuff and I'm not coming right out of high school. I do plan on talking with some local pastry chefs about volunteering for a stage (now that I have the time) to get my feet wet. Right now I'm mostly drawn to plated desserts for fine dining restaurants. I like the idea of dessert being a part of a larger concept and experience as well as the creative possibilities of a la minute plating and presentation. But once I get some training and experience in the real world my focus may well change. I would like to keep an open mind at this point and get a broad exposure to techniques and styles. So far I've visited the pastry programs at the Seattle community colleges, and while they have a good reputation locally and seem like solid programs, I don't think I would be satisfied with them for several reasons: 1) they are 18 months long and at my age (38) I don't have time to waste learning stuff I don't need and not making money. 2) For community colleges they are ambitious, but not really at the level I would like to be working at. 3) The instructors are connected to the local restaurant and pastry scene, but again, I would like to work at a higher level than that. Having gone to art school to get my degree in graphic design, I know all about "getting out of your education what you put into it", but I also know that connections and contacts are vitally important to getting a running start out of school. I've also visited a couple of schools in Vancouver BC, and while they look to be very good, I thought their pastry programs were not their strong suit. Steve Klc has recommended the French Pastry School in Chicago in the past and I would be very interested in hearing more about their program and what makes them special. They are definitely on my list of schools to visit. I've been looking into the French Culinary Institute and the Institute for Culinary Education in New York and would appreciate any insights and opinions about their pastry programs. I plan to visit these schools as well. Lenotre in Paris would be a fabulous experience I'm sure, but I know maybe 5 words of French and I'm afraid the language and cultural barriers would hamper my training. Though I haven't completely ruled them out, or the possibility of a post-school apprenticeship in Paris. After looking into the CIA I've pretty much ruled them out due to the length of the program and the very high cost. But I would be willing to reconsider if I heard some strong arguments in their favor. Same for Johnson and Wales. Some have advised me to skip school and just apprentice with people I respect, but I really want to get a strong foundation in classic techniques as well as develop some self-confidence (hopefully not arrogance) before diving into a high-intensity kitchen environment. Are there any other top flight pastry programs that I've overlooked and should consider? Where would you go knowing what you know now? Thanks very much!

I thought I would mention there's a mulled wine recipe in the Nov/Dec issue (the current issue?) of Cook's Illustrated. Ingredients: 3 sticks cinnamon 10 whole cloves 10 black peppercorns 1 tsp allspice berries 2 bottles red wine 4 2-inch strips of orange zest 1/2 cup + 2 Tbs sugar 2-4 Tbs brandy Toast spices for a couple minutes. add wine, zest and 1/2 cup sugar and simmer partially covered for 1 hour. strain out spices and add brandy and up to 2 Tbs more sugar. I think I'll give this a try for quaffing during the pre-Thanksgiving cooking marathon.

Just be thankful I didn't post the one that was a cow's head... that "moooos" when you push the special "button". I kid you not.

I highly recommend this ginger cake recipe from "Room for Dessert" by David Lebovitz: Fresh Ginger Cake Even though it calls for 4 oz of fresh ginger, it doesn't taste harsh or overly spiced and the black pepper is a great addition. Edit: fixed link. (damn cut-n-paste)

Yeah, but how were the strippers? Dim sum at Jumbo was very good, if a little uneven. Some good dishes, some great dishes, and some I wouldn't order again. I think the the selection would have been a little more diverse if we had been there an hour or so later. The price however, cannot be beaten with a frozen milk fish! We ate like pigs for over an hour and ended up paying $8 per person including tax and tip. I had a great time and I hope we do this again soon and often.

Bourbon prunes here (scroll down almost to the bottom). It's really just guidlines as I lost the original recipe years ago. Thanks so much to everyone for the words of support and encouragement. Everyone here has been increadibly helpful. Like I said, this was not completely unexpected and I was actually planning on leaving in a few months anyway. This just gave me a kick in the butt and moved my timetable up a bit. It also gives me time to prepare and make a well considered school choice - and have lunch at Salumi. Sorry ladybug - I really didn't mean to highjack your thread to talk about my situation.

nightscotsman, I am not familiar with krazy kake. Is it perhaps the same as "dump cake," in which you dump a box of cake mix, a can of pineapple, a can of cherry pie filling, and a few other things in a pan, and bake them? I have never dared to try this, but many people claim it's delicious. It would probably win first place at a church bake-off. OK, the dump cake sounds... uh... "interesting", but it's not krazy kake. It has other names as well, but krazy kake contains no eggs or butter. When you look at the recipe, it seems like it would make a chocolate brick, but in fact it produces a moist, dark, rich-tasting chocolate cake. I usually use the version that's in the Cafe Beaujolas cookbook and usually to make cream cheese filled cupcakes. You can whip them up in no time, they're best made the day before you eat them to let the chocolate flavor develop, and everybody loves them.

Thanks for the review wgallois. A couple months ago I saw a special about this hotel on the Travel Channel here in the US, and was very currious if the experience could live up to the spectacular architecture and setting (situated about a quarter mile out in the ocean on its own man-made island). I thought the building itself was so beautiful that it was hard to believe it wasn't just a model or 3D rendering in photographs. The food they showed on TV looked quite pretty, but nothing that wouldn't be familiar to anyone used to dining at high-end restaurantes anywhere in the world. Sorry it was dissapointing Do you think you could translate the 617 dhs price into either dollars or pounds? I'm not familiar with the Dubai currency.

Thanks for the link snowangel. Great stuff, that Al.

I think there are actually two types of stupid recipes - the kind that just by reading the ingredients you know they will be heinous, and the kind that actually produces a very nice dish despite the odd ingredients and/or preperation. I'm actually a big fan of the latter. There's just something about the impossiblity of the end product that fascinates me. My favorites that I actually make are the classic "krazy kake" and pudding cake recipes. At the cocktail party HeyJude was describing a toffee recipe that uses salteen crackers as a base, and one that included wrapping crescent rolls around marshmallows. She swears they produce not only edible, but delicous treats, and I'm dying to try them. By the way, if you enjoy these recipes, as well as really, really funny, laugh-out-loud food writing, I highly recommend tracking down a copy of "Caramel Knowledge" by Al Sicherman. Within it's pages you will find recipes for "Bostess Bupcakes", Peanut Butter Coffee, Herring in a Cloud, Wienie Zucchini, Cold Spam Mousse, Mockaguole, and "more food and culinary musings for the twisted mind". He claims to have cooked everything in the book and served it to real human beings - who liked the dishes. Half.com has the book available for just a few bucks: Caramel Knowledge

Oh, like fur underpants aren't disturbing?

Wow Scheilke, you've really bulked up since last time I saw you. Must be the suppliments. eleven of clock works for me! And dessert at my place if anyone's interested.

Thanks for the encouragement and support... I LOVE YOU GUYS :sob: Bartender! Another round for everyone! And good luck to you, too Human Bean. I do hope they don't give you the axe, but if it turns out to be innevitable, may you have a soft landing.

Well, I guess I won't be wasting any more good deeds on my coworkers, since they are no longer my coworkers. As of today I have been laid off. Not a huge surprise as business has been very slow for many months. I'm OK financially, and I'll be applying for unemployment so I'll be fine, but I will need a new audience for my baking... Cooking school, here I come!

MsRamsey's back! Yay! How was England? What did you see? What did you do? Where did you eat? Did you get to go to The Fat Duck? Let's see the pictures! You can ride with me anytime, hon'.

Just noticed this tidbit in the business section of today's Times: "Restaurant supply and demand is almost perfectly balanced in the Seattle area, according to a new index that tries to help businesses figure out where to build new restaurants. Claritas, a demographic data and market-research company, developed the index, which gauges restaurant supply and demand in most metro markets in the country. The Seattle-Bellevue-Everett area had an index of 102, with 100 indicating restaurant supply perfectly matches demand. Seattle ranked 14th nationally in overall restaurant sales at $3.9 billion. An index number under 100 indicates unmet demand. Bellingham is a hot spot, the 16th-best market for new restaurants. Spokane is at 87, indicating some opportunities." See the right-hand links on this page to download some of Claritas' reports on the restaurant industry in PDF format.

I'm realatively inexperienced with wine and not a little intimidated by wine lists, so I really appreciate a pre-set list of wine pairings with tasting menus. I get to try new things and I get the benefit of the sommelier's carefully considered expertise (I hope) rather than an off-the-cuff recommendation at the table. The only downside for me is I'm an alcohol lightweight, so after a couple glasses of wine - let alone the 4 or 5 that come with some tasting menus - I'm completely looped and in no shape to drive home. So unless someone else is driving, I usually order an aperatif cocktail and pass on wine with dinner.

That sounds really intriguing. Does it have any any of the character of a sherry? Do you think you could describe how the taste and texture differs from a conventional brandy or cognac? Thanks!

I am there! My date picking abilities suck, so I'm glad someone else made the proposal. They have huge round tables, so this place is perfect for a gathering. That's so cute - love it!