thirtyoneknots

Don't you mean punches? Or what differentiates the two categories in your system?

I've heard of people doing simple infusions. I've never had it, but from what I gather it's disgusting. I don't think this really qualifies as absinthe. Back in the day (ie, before about 3 years ago) much discussion about making absinthe was bandied about on fora such as this, with the more or less unanimous conclusion that infusions are gross (and not representative of the character of absinthe) and distilling is ill-advised for a variety of reasons. With the widespread availability of a decent selection of them now, what would really be the point? I've done wormwood infusions for bitters-making projects. Although tasting that is educational to help one know what wormwood tastes like, it does not resemble any absinthe I've ever had.

Agreed about the prices. To keep our perspective here, buffalo trace's antique collection goes for about $60/btl and just a few years ago was under 50. These are, imo, some of the world's finest whiskies. I'm all about supporting small distilleries on principle but let's be real here, it is highly improbable that these new guys are offering even half the quality of the antique collection.

I for one am extremely concerned with the trends in rye lately; it appears that the marketing people have figured out that rye is now big but was lacking in "premium" brands. The last few years have seen a relatively significant growth in available brands, but offhand I can't think of a single new mixing grade rye new to the market in the same time frame. On the contrary, they seem to be trying to dumb the style down. Exhibit A: ri1.

Wrt domestically available options, the senor curacao is quite decent. Provided, of course, the blue color isn't an outright hangup itself. Idle question: anybody out there have any insights on the origins of blue curacao?

Agreed, I've also been enjoying a lot of 50/50 experiments lately

Very interesting, thanks for clarifying some of that. Entrenched as I am in the American paradigm, the whole thing often confuses me enough that I don't really know what questions to ask to make it make sense. The discussion seems to be very focused on shaking technique, is there any Japanese bartender equally famous for his stirring technique? Or do they tend to shake everything there?

Did you actually perceive any difference in your drink? This would of course be the test. I think it is interesting to note that while the artisan (if that is the word to use here) cocktail movement in the US has to a large extent gathered a dogmatic prohibition against ice crystals in an "up" drink, the Japanese technique seems to be striving to create as many as possible. Extraneous dilution is the reason most often given for fine-straining them out; what is the opposite justification for including them? I wanted to interject here that I do believe that there are in fact bartenders in the US who are famous, or at least celebrated, for their technique; Phil Ward is an oft-cited example of someone who can stir two drink with one hand while shaking another with the other hand while pontificating on the history of the drink the customer before him is enjoying while adding up another guy's tab in his head. Now that is something that I would consider technique. It's just that that is not the thing he is most famous for; but to a mere mortal such as I, coordination of that level is astounding.

Another advantage to the ice-last method is that sometimes (often, even) the liquid being poured in can be deflected by the ice and splash back out of the glass. This does no one any good and since theres no accurate way to tel how much was lost, it can even necessitate starting over.

That's how I've always understood it, too. It's just not how I actually do it.

Well I think calling it a short cut is sort of a loaded way to describe the technique. I definitely think there are drinks that are enjoyable because of how the evolve in the glass while drinking them, due to mixing, dilution, temperature, etc. That said when building a drink in a glass I'm more likely to add the ice last after putting all the liquid ingredients in to ensure a more complete level of integration, usually after a brief swirl in the glass. edit: spelling

One place I worked when the guy on expo needed a lamb chop plate setup he just went "baaaa" like a sheep. The cook on sautee would baaa back at him to acknowledge. Somewhat surreal.

My God, that's beautiful. I shed a tear for those missing 20 degrees of proof and 4 years of age.

Thanks, bmdaniel. I admit that I'm a bit leary of running afoul of the TABC's rules against shipping liquor to Texas, but you're probably right that it would work out fine. I think I'll just keep up my vigil at Smith Street till it gets here. It sounds like from eas' post that it won't be much longer. Just so you know, the worst thing that can happen to you is you don't get your stuff. Shipping is what is (stupidly, but I won't get into that here) banned--not ordering.

Excellent point, and yes that is quite difficult to learn. I still have trouble with it occasionally if I am trying to do something else at the same time (like talk to a customer). Another option is to have two bottles on hand, though that doesn't always make sense from a cost standpoint.

Honestly I think the biggest hurdle to becoming faster is knowing that you want/need to be faster. I have worked with people who were very very slow and didn't really seem aware of this. Those are the worst. I think a lot of it is practice--I, too, transitioned from hobbyist to "pro" once upon a time and the learning curve is steeper looking back than it appeared looking forward.

I'm not particularly fast, but the first few months I made cocktails from behind a for-profit bar I was definitely way slower than I am now. Watching the fast people I worked with helped me learn a lot, but the thing that took me a while to realise is that I think it makes a bigger impression, within reason, for a group to all get their drinks at once (especially if they are standing there watching you make them) than for them to come out as fast as you can make them in a sequence. This goes back to the ticket management techniques such as making several drinks at once, having your other bt (or barback) pouring beer and wine for the people while you're pouring a Manhattan and a Tom Collins, etc. If your food came to your table as it was ready it would be weird; you expect it to all come at once, even if that means a little extra wait. People don't usually think of it as conciously, but I think the same applies to some extent to drink service. This has been discussed elsewhere I think but if its any help here's an example of a sample ticket and how it could be made to minimize time: 1 glass Chardonnay, 1 Mojito, 1 Manhattan, 1 Atty, 1 beer, 1 glass Shiraz, 1 Sidecar So if I was looking at that I see 3 up cocktails, 2 of them stirred. So I'd chill 3 glasses, measure all the ingredients of the drinks into separate mixing glasses and add ice to the Manhattan and Atty. Then I'd go pour half of the beer (in case it foams cos I'm in a hurry) and the wines (we use small 5 oz carafes for table service). Then the Mojito is made, which we are set up to make very quickly and once it is made the fuze is lit, so to speak. Pour the rest of the beer, stir the Manhattan and Atty briefly and strain. Shake the Sidecar, strain. Garnishes all around. Holler the server's name, or don't. Done. I think it's completely reasonable to expect that that ticket could be done in 6 minutes by one person who was focused. Of course in the real world where other customers, servers, managers are calling for your attention times can slip a little but in general with practice and familiarity with your mise en place it should be doable. Like Mr. Kinsey said, doing several things at once is key. I don't even want to think about how long a ticket like that would have taken me when I was first starting out.

Much thought given lately to everyone's Fernet experiments as well as my desire to use up a languishing bottle of DeKuyper Creme de Menthe without burning out on Stingers (if that is possible--I don't want to find out). Needed a nightcap after a frustrating shift and came up with equal parts Fernet Branca, Creme de Menthe, and Old Grand-dad 114 over crushed ice with a twist. Pretty satisfying, though I predictably found myself wanting to increase the bourbon at the expense of the CdM, which sort of defeats the purpose. I'd probably try it next with double the whiskey. The sweetness started to wear on me a bit after a while though I did make this a bit bigger than I am accustomed to so that might have been part of the issue as well. Worth trying though if you like that kind of thing (If I do say so myself). And yes I know this is a sort-of ripoff of the Good Night Irene but I can't seem to get Branca Menta anywhere around here edit: typos

I've been saving them to make rockets in the event of any future 'Red Dawn' type scenario.

I think when I did the Slope with the Handy I did 1 oz Handy, 3/4 oz Punt e Mes, and 1/4 oz Apry (I typically make my cocktails very small at home). If using the Rothman & Winter, which is both less sweet and less intensely apricotty, some adjustment would probably be necessary. The trick though is to have the whiskey make up only half the drink. Alcuin, I've not had the Giffard product (though it sounds wonderful), but as I understand it Orchard Apricot is made by sweetening an apricot eau-de-vie with fresh press juice, retaining both the ethereal florality of the spirit and the fruityness of a fresh apricot. Apry would be comparitively less complex and more like a dried apricot, or preserve--it is much sweeter as well. Both are good, but different.

Not that this is the drink I would necessarily recommend it for, but if you've never made a cocktail with Thomas Handy you are missing out, good sir. Well I fibbed a bit there, Andy. I have made an Old Fashioned with it a couple times, and I did try a Manhattan, but something about it wasn't right, so I didn't repeat it. I should have said that I'd rather not experiment with it unless I can be sure of the outcome. What's the best way to make it work in a Manhattan? Just use less? What other drinks would you say it's worth using in? (we can move this offshoot to the Rye thread if you'd prefer) Well as the name suggests, and KD1191 confirms, a Sazerac with it is a special treat. I like to use it at full strength, Bobby Huegel at Anvil likes to cut it 50/50 with the "baby" Sazerac Rye. If you're not cutting it, be sure to give it a nice, long stir. Herbsaint would be ok I suppose (am I the only one not impressed with the "new" formula?) but if you have any real Absinthe, especially a particularly pungent one, it will really take it somewhere special. The other thing to do with it is to mix it into a Manhattan, half Handy, half Carpano Antica Formula, 2 dashes of bitters, up with a twist. Whoever you have to kill, bribe, or compromise your dignity to to obtain a bottle of Carpano Antica is worthwhile, if you can experience this drink. There are others, too (a Slope is actually pretty nice with some tweaks using this whiskey) but that should get you started.

Cheers, glad it worked out. I'm curious if the Monin ginger syrup is so potent it comes through in that quantity or were you going for a more subtle effect?

If you are going to pour it over crushed ice to serve, I would avoid refrigerating it as it will then not give the ice melt dilution you need. If you are making it so far in advance that perishability is an issue then add some water, maybe 2 cups, to the recipe above and then refrigerate it to pour over ice later. As far as lemons being a pain, I feel for you but the good news is that you can make many more servings of punch per lemon squeezed than you can cocktails, generally speaking. When entertaining, I typically do cocktails or punch, never both...they compete with each other and leftover punch presents a challenge of sorts. ymmv and all that.

I would probably start with something like this: 12 oz rum (or more to taste) 8 oz lemon or lime (or combo) 4-8 oz syrups in combo of your preference fruit slices, mint, etc several generous dashes Angostura if you can get it Pour in pitcher and fill with crushed ice, swizzle well til frost forms on outside of pitcher and/or let it sit for, say, 20-30 min (you want at least a third of the ice to have melted before you start serving. Pour into cups and kick back. You can make two pitchers like that and mix it up a bit with the flavorings if you want. A few words of advice: lime and rum is justifiably classic but can be ponderous if used in large quantity or if a relatively sweeter drink is desired (more on that in a minute). I am actually prone to using rum and lemon in punches for the brighter flavor but this is a matter of taste. You could go with 3 oz lime and 5 of lemon or something like that as a compromise if you wanted to. As far as sweetness goes, that may look like an inordinate amount of sugar, and for a cocktail I would agree with you. However in a punch, where significant dilution is going to occur (which is a good thing) more sweetness is needed to compensate and ensure that the flavors will come through. To compensate for the higher saturation and more agressive flavor of the Monin syrups, plain old 1:1 simple could stand in for some of the syrup if using all Monin is too intense. I would say 4 oz is below the desireable level of sweetness you want but again this is a matter of taste. You can of course always add more...I suspect at least 6 oz is where you would want to end up. If you find you have made it too sweet, don't add more citrus without also adding more rum to help stretch the flavor. If you want to add OJ, only use the not-from-concentrate stuff (or squeeze it yourself, preferably) and add maybe half as much as the combined citrus/syrup amount at most. This is not the only way to go about it of course, others may have ideas as well. But it will produce something enjoyable with a minimum of fuss. Cheers. edit: spelling and clarification

Are you wanting to make a bowl of punch or a series of individual punches?