mmm_chocolate

I am meeting a friend from Oxford next Tuesday for dinner. I am coming from King of Prussia, so the mid-way point is about Painter's Crossing at 1 and 202. I know there are a few options in Kennett Square, but was wondering if there is anything between Painter's Crossing and Kennett square that is worth a visit? I appreciate your suggestions!

Orange beet......is VERY good. I didn't get the beet flavor, but I suppose it just sweetened up the whole concoction and gave some of that pink coloring. But the citrus flavor is awesome, like eating a chilled fresh picked clementine. Really refreshing and not too tart! Give it a taste anyhow....it's free!

Thanks for all of the suggestions!! I'll be out and about this weekend in pursuit,and with all of these locations, could probably have a taste test! mmm.

Several comments: 1. I am not opposed to chains just because they're chains. There are good chains and bad ones. In fact, my introduction to eGullet was by way of an essay I wrote for The Philadelphia Inquirer two summers ago arguing that the chain invasion of Center City was not A Bad Thing but rather a sign that we've arrived as a place of interest to a wide variety of people. I still don't think the chain invasion is A Bad Thing, as I believe the local dining scene and food community is strong enough and large enough to keep our great independent restaurants going even after the chains have skimmed off the less adventurous, the more cautious, the incurious and the easily swayed by advertising on TV. But I could see the day when all these chains start to choke off the new blood that is necessary for the independent restaurant scene to continue. That is something we need to be vigilant against. 2. On behalf of Kansas Citians everywhere, I offer humble apologies for our unleashing Houlihan's on an unsuspecting world. It began innocently enough, as a play on words, of sorts: a men's wear shop on the Country Club Plaza, Tom Houlihan, relocated to larger digs a few blocks down. The restaurant company that owned the fancy Plaza III restaurant next door, Gilbert/Robinson (then a strictly local operator), took over the space and installed a faux-old-timey, vaguely Irish pub which it christened--natch--"Houlihan's Old Place" (for that is indeed what it was). The place was an immediate hit, and when Gilbert/Robinson was acquired by W.R. Grace & Co., the new owners took it national, with predictable results. I've been known to conflate the name of this chain with that of Bennigan's and refer to restaurants of this ilk as "Hooligan's." I do not in the least mourn the passing of the Rittenhouse Square Houlihan's, but cannot tell you what its successor, the Devon Seafood Grill (still owned by Houlihan's, now an independent firm based in Overland Park, just outside Kansas City), is like at all. I've heard it's not bad. 3. Regarding the cheese: Your description of these places recalls a quip by "Blue Collar" comedian Jeff Foxworthy that will one day grace my .sig: "There is no dish whose taste cannot be improved by adding cheese to it." Unfortunately for these places, it does make a difference what cheese you use. 4. I had a very good burger at a Ruby Tuesday's in suburban Wilmington a while back, and their salad bar was of good quality too. I think you may be right about this chain. OTOH, I don't think the meals I had at Chili's when I worked at Penn were all that bad--I've certainly had much worse (most recently at a chain restaurant outside Harrisburg called Damian's Grill, whose gimmick is that you come there to watch TV as much as to eat. Certainly, the fare served up on the huge TV screens was better than what was served up on my plate). Obviously, people's assessments of various chains are as various as the people and the chains themselves. Except for Olive Garden and Pizza Hut, about which I cannot recall a single positive word uttered by an eGulleteer. ← I would agree that quality can depend on the particular location of a chain. The owner, chefs and staff will definitely factor into food quality, cleanliness, and service. So maybe I am being elitist in saying that Chili's is no good. I should say that the Chili's on CityLine Ave was not great for me. And there's a Bennigans (or something akin) at the KoP mall that is abysmal. I will also agree about the salad bar at Ruby Tuesdays, and add that the one in Exton (and the new location in Malvern) is quite good, but look out for the RT salad bar at Grantie Run mall. It's always stocked with wilted lettuce, slimy cucumbers, fermenting fruit and unwashed mushrooms. And it's always been that way. Not so at the aforementioned locations. I guess this proves the point about not all restaurants within a chain being equal. Thanks for the info about Houllihans, seems like perhaps alot of chains started off with good intentions and went downhill. And while on that topic, another chain I enjoy is Pizza Rio Uno. I really like their pan pizza.....their crust is buttery and full of fattening ingredients of some sort. Geez, people on this board are going to think I'm a chain queen or something with terrible taste....I really don't eat at chains alot at ALL and most definitely prefer dining at our amazing local restaurants in Center City and even the little suburban gems like Jaipur Indian and High Street Cafe. So, don't get me wrong. I'm not defending chains or saying they're better or encouraging people to go or anything like that.....

Alas, this, too, has been my problem. When I try and show people that they have choices and that they can make a difference in what they spend their money on, most people also pass me off as a food snob or worse yet, a "gourmet". I've almost come to loathe that word, "gourmet". mmm_chocolate: It certainly isn't for me to say whether anyone else should like the food at Cheesecake Factory (or any other establishment for that matter) or not. I've paid for a meal there twice now and I don't particularly think what I had was all that good. That aside, my main issue with these types of establishments has always been the size of the portion AND the resulting cost. Why can't I get a human sized portion at a more modest price? Instead of offering me a pasta dish with chicken and pesto that could serve 2 and costs $18, why not offer me 1/2 the amount for $9? I suppose part of it is market analysis and demographics. When people go out for dinner, they expect their entrees to be somewhere between $15-$20. Chains will cater to that and with pasta being as cheap as it is, you end up getting what you paid for -- lots of pasta. (Note: Those are Ohio prices. Your mileage may vary. ) ← My posts are just my opinions, there can be no right or wrong answer here. I personally think the food there is good (it's not on my top ten list or anything, but I've never been offended or disappointed there), and its certainly of a higher quality than say, Chili's. But I'm not trying to tell anyone whether they should like it, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. What I am telling them is to go to a restaurant themselves before they profess personal judgement. I mean, it certainly doesn't hurt my feelings or anything if people don't like the Cheesecake factory...as long as they've eaten there and have a valid basis for their opinion. It just seems a bit elitist to say that a restaurant is bad without having eaten there. That's the only point I am trying to get across here.

did you have second breakfast? ← I was eating 2nd breakfast for awhile and got really fat. But I would still have to recommend second breakfast to those who haven't tried it. Eat a bowl of cereal around 7 or 8 am and then by 10:30 (if you're like me) you're blood sugar will be plummiting from all the carbs and you will NEED to eat a croissant with egg and cheese. It's a very satisfying meal, that second breakfast.

It IS pretty sweet, just a crystallized form of maple sugar, almost like fudge. I'll have to try hers to see if it compares to the candy in Montreal!

I don't know if he carries them year-round, but I know I've seen them at the Pennsylvania General Store at the Reading Terminal Market. He only carries products made in Pennsylvania-- is that local enough? http://www.pageneralstore.com Edited to add that he also carries Pennsylvania maple syrup....... ← This is encouraging.....I was just there (RTM) on Saturday and don't think I looked at this shop. There's a really looong candy counter at RTM (don't know the name) and they didn't have them, which was disappointing. Thanks for the info, maybe this supplier will have them in the fall? And it just has to be local enough for me to buy it and eat it within 5 seconds!

I'm freshly back from a holiday in Montreal and am craving maple sugar candy. Does anyone know of any local candy makers who partake in the creation of these yummy, creamy, non-fat candies?

I think there's a difference between an ethnic restaurant (including barbecue) and a vegetarian restaurant. The one is rooted in a culture; the other is rooted in an ethical decision. I'm interested in exploring various cultures through food. I'm not so interested in making a moral statement by what I put on my plate. Others differ; that's fine with me. what about a south indian vegetarian place? rooted in a culture that at some point made an ethical or religious decision.... or what about a restauranteur that decides that, say, denmark is the goodest country in the world in every way, and therefore opens a danish place? then it's exploring the culture through food because of an ethical decision! LORD HAVE MERCY THIS IS CONFUSING. i'm stickin to what tastes good. ← It does all get muddled. But here's the thing, you don't have to make a moral statement if you don't want to. Even if you think (or know) that's what a restaurant is doing. Good example with the Indian. At an Indian restaurant, you wont be eating beef because of the religious/ethical/cultural beliefs of the owners. But does that mean that YOU personally are making a statement to the world about your personal consumption fo beef? Or would you avoid it because the restaurant holds a philosophy that differs from yours? No. You just like the taste of the food, so you go. So if a vegan restaurant doesn't happen to serve meat for ethical reasons, it doesn't mean that you are subscribing to that particular belief just because you decide to eat there. If the food is good, you go. Horizons is good. Blue Sage is good. I think I just re-made the point about going to a place because the food is worth it, so it must have been a good point to begin with....

I woud like to make the point that not all chains are equal and the Cheesecake Factory may be getting a bad wrap here. I don't think it's fair to make a judgement about ANY restaurant before going, even something terrible like The Old Country Buffet (I've been there so I can offer that opinion). I have been to alot of chains. Growing up in a Delco suburb in a middle class family whose parents don't eat anything unusual....going out to dinner meant Red Lobster most of the time. I have found the Olive Garden, Chi-chis, Red Lobster, Chili's, TGIFridays, Bennigans, and Houlahanns all to be of pretty bad quality. Alot of fatty tasteless cheese is smothered over most dishes in the hopes of making it enticing. Or something. I've had alot of bad meals at these establishments and feel qualified to say that they're not good at all. However, the veggie burger with fries at Ruby Tuesdays is a very satisfying dish for me. High quality, very tasty. This veggie burger ranks in my top 5. And their chocolate tallcake dessert is very good to share with a group. But all in all I think they may be a notch above their competition. The Outback Steakhouse serves decent food. I have not had the steaks in a looong time, but the fish is always nicely cooked, nicely spiced and never over or underdone. The salads are always fresh and green, their dressings are specific to the chain (i.e. they created thei own), and very tasty. I wouldn't say that one can fairly compare an Outback and a Chilis, simply because they are both chains. And the Cheesecake Factory actually has good food. Is it better than L'angolo or Dmitri's? Absolutely not! But not every restaurant can reach those levels of greatness. The Cheesecake Factory has good food, though. It's good! And I don't think there's anything wrong with having a big menu. This wouldn't put me off of any other restaurant. If Dmitri's expanded their menu by a few pages, I would probably just end up going there more often, to make sure I tried it all! Big portions I do have a problem with in general, but for myself, I always wrap half of my food up and have it for lunch the next day, so no problem. I guess what I'm saying is, don't knock it till you try it. Or if you're not going to try it (and I can understand why one wouldn't with so many other high quality, no-wait-involved restaurants in the Philly area)..... then don't knock it.

No, just have someone go at 4:45 and put your name in, then have them call you and let you know an approximate wait time. I'd say 5:30 would be about the time you would sit down. but the wait won't be any less than 20 minutes, so you're good.

You'll be waiting at least 45 minutes. But that woudl be a VERY optimistic guess. Maybe they can go and wait and you can meet them there later? That's probably your best best.

I live in KoP and have eaten at the cheesecake factory about 4 times. We usually don't go because of the long wait involved, which is on avg. about 80 minutes. Why go at all? I think the food is actually good. I have only been disappointed by the fish tacos, which I would not order again. But their avocado eggrolls are pretty durn good, much better than I've had anywhere else. For a chain, this is about as good as it gets. Outback Steakhouse does pretty well with its food quality, but the selection there is not terrific. At Cheesecake Factory, you have the biggest selection of food I've ever seen anywhere, which is great for diverse diners, or if not sure wat you're in the mood for. And not that I'm a big eater, but the typical American diner likes whopping portions, which is what you get there. Plus the atmosphere is very nice, and servers informed and pleasant. More importantly, if you live in KoP and don't like Indian, you don't have a heck of alot of choice besides a chain. We drive in to the city to get our special dinners, but 76 can be quite a deterrant (sp?) at dinner time. So that's why people go to the Cheesecake Factory. And wait. You have the mall to walk around while you wait, so you plan on going about an hour before you know you'll want to eat, and everything works out. Doesn't work if you feel like going out on a whim. On a related KoP thought, the Bahama Breeze (by the movies in the mall complex) is a very nice place to eat. Not too casual, great food, decent drinks, Aruban beer. I'm not sure if this is a chain or not, but I've never seen another one in my travels. The food is fresh and well prepared, with a varied menu that's not drastically expensive. The wait factor comes in again though...usually at least an hour, more on weekends. I think there's just not alot of great food in KoP, so people find it worth waiting for the good stuff. But I'm moving to NYC in a few weeks, so my horizons are expanding exponentially...

Responding to mrbigjas's comments about Horizons not being the ideal vegan place... I can understand where this is coming from. Horizons does do the "meat substitution" thing, and I know several vegans who don't want anything to do with meat...even the fake meat grosses them out! I myself don't understand this sentiment, because for a vegetarian like myself who doesn't eat meat for ethical reasons, I still miss the textures and flavors of meat. You could say that Horizons allows me to not have my meat and eat it too! Blue Sage in Southampton is the better restaurant for the real veggie/vegan experience. Excellent food, fresh flavors, beautiful presentation....with the noticeable exclusion (overall) of fake meat. They center around veggies, and veggies take center stage. I would highly recommend Blue Sage to meat eaters as well, just to see what's happening on the "other side," it's just a bit out of the way in Bucks County. And if you LIKE meat, then Horizons will probably be more to your tastes.

Definitely go. Have the BBQ jamaican setian starter. Horizons is an active force in changing the idea that without meat it's not a compete meal, or these sort of "negative concept" sentiments.....but it can only work if meat eaters end up going.

This is, in my estimation, the best food in the city (followed by L'Angolo as a close second). Everything that they create reaches perfection on the taste level, and is always beautiful to look at as well. We were there this past Friday evening, and I had one of the best meals I've ever experienced. We started with the chopped spinach salad which is served with avocado, corn and lime cilantro dressing. The presentation is gorgeous...very thinly sliced spinach which is mixed with the dressing and then molded somehow into this cylindrical shape and garnished with olives and chili oil. Prefect seasoning, perfect amount of dressing, incredible fresh flavors. We shared the jamaican BBQ seitan which I dare people to eat and feel confident that it's not chicken. Amazing deep, rich, sweet and sticky BBQ sauce, which they somehow get really crispy on the outside of the seitan so that you have the "skin" experience of really nice chicken wings or grill fired ribs. The cauliflower salad was thai inspired and included peanut dressing, lime leaves and a nice hot chili to top it off. The sopa de tortilla is a carnitas-type dish. Smoked glazed seitan in the style of pork carnitas, stuffed into freshly made grilled corn tortillas, topped lightly with a tomato crema and served atop a stew of beans, avocado, and other yummy things. Awesome, awesome food. Please don't stay away from this place because you are a meat eater. I know how bad and bland (and sometimes scary looking) vegan food can be. I promise that you will be amazed by the preparation, flavor, presentation and general magnificence of the food at Horizons! It will become your new favorite spot. In addition to the amazing food, which is reason enough to try it, they have a really nice space, too. Downstairs is a bar and lounge where one can order tapas, and the upstairs dining contains a second bar, wood floors, brightly painted orange and white walls and a huge skylight to light up the room. Really classy and tasteful decor. We went to Capogiros for dessert, so I can't comment on the desserts at Horizons. However, I'm returning this Thursday and will bring my camera, so be on the lookout!

I would have to agree with this....Les Chevres did not seem to be in a great spot. Perhaps if they were on St. Denis or St. Laurent, they would do better and be able to remain mostly vegetarian. Oh well.

I'm just surprised because it seemed to be getting so much great press for what it was. And the fact that it was a little bit different than the average restaurant made it stand apart from the crowd; it had a unique hook. Now they will have to be competing head on with the other meat and potato restaurants in the city, many of which I hear are unbelievable when it comes to preparing meat. And honestly, the food at Les Chevres wasn't the greatest I've ever had, so they will have their competition cut out for them. Too bad.

I am back from my week long stay in beautiful Montreal. I'll write a few words about the overall trip, but felt that my experience at Les Chevres deserved its own topic. Being a vegetarian, I was ecstatic to discover that one of Montreal's best restaurants featured vegetables. I understood that there were usually a few meat dishes offered for the carnivores, but that veggies took center stage. However, out of the six entree choices for the evening of my visit (6/28/06), only ONE was without meat or fish. I actually thought that I might be in the wrong restaurant (could there be another Les Chevres?!) and asked the waitress if perhaps there was a separate menu featuring more vegetarian options. Of course we were in the right place, and there was not another menu. I was really disappointed. I am used to having only one choice at a restaurant, but had a pre-conception that Les Chevres would be different. To start, I ordered a salad that consisted of thinly sliced apples and jicima stacked and dressed with rice wine vinegar and sliced green onions. It was a pleasant enough combination, but was a bit lacking in dimension and flavor. The apples and jicima were a similar color, texture and flavor and after eating five or six bites, I felt that I had enough vinegar for one evening. This dish could have greatly benefitted from a contrasting component. For my entree, I had the mushroom risotto, which was very nice, but a bit on the salty side. The dessert was a honey almond glace served with rhubarb puree and rhubarb sorbet. This was good, but not as mouth-wateringly delicious as the gelato I would order from Havre aux Glaces the next day. (My husband, who ordered the crab salad and a fish entree, faired better than me. The crab salad in particular was pretty amazing.) But all things considered, I found the menu not to be any more vegetarian friendly than the norm, and felt that we paid quite alot for food that didn't consistently live up to the price. Did I misunderstand what this restaurant was all about? Or was I perhaps there on a night when the meat was more plentiful than the veggies? I am not sure and would love some local feedback. But sadly, based on my dinner there, I could not recommend this restaurant to vegetarians. -Michelle

Thanks, I'll check it out. I'll be back after the trip and let everyknow where we ended up....I'm really looking forward to Les Chevres!

I had a nice mini-trip to NYC, and the food was terrific based on the reviews I discovered in the egullet NYC forum. Thursday night I was dining alone and so walked from the hotel to Zen Palate and ate in the cafe. The food was really good, fresh, flavorful and healthy. I had the "Tofu Delight" which was tofu, zuchini and tomatoes sauteed in black bean sauce and served with spring rolls and brown and red rice. I ordered a takeout rice noodle stir fry for my husband, and this had savory smoky undertones which brought the dish to a higher culinary level than your average asian take out. The cafe seems like a great place to grab a quick and healthy dinner for a casual eat in or take out. And they do have a proper restaurant there as well, which I would imagine is just as nice. Thursday night we walked down to the Flat Iron Lounge for cocktails...it was a pretty swanky place, but I didn't get any sort of "snob" or hipster vibe. I'd be interested to get the local feedback about this lounge. The drinks were very strong, I couldn't actually finish the lichi lemongrass and gin combo. The gin was so heavy that it covered up alot of the subtle citrus flavors of the mixers, which was unfortunate. Friday we ate lunch at Otto, sharing the buffalo mozerella margherita pizza and roasted eggplant pasta. The pizza crust was outstanding; very thin, with the perfect balance of crispy AND chewy. The tomato sauces were obviously made from the freshest tomatoes and contained a hint of sweetness which was quite enjoyable. We tried the caramel, coffee and olive oil gelati for dessert, and I was in heaven. The olive oil gelati was such an interesting treat, I loved the sea salt sprinkled on top! When we ate a bite of the caramel (which had that burned sugar, REAL caramel flavor) with the salted olive oil, it tasted incredible like caramel popcorn. And all three flavors combined tasted like the best (most fattening) cup of coffee ever invented. Kudos to Otto, they managed to improve my mood immensely after a terrible stay at the New Yorker Hotel. Don't ever EVER stay at The Ramada New Yorker Hotel under any circumstances. You can go to trip advisor where I will have a review up shortly if you care to hear the details. And that was it for the food...a short and sweet trip to NYC. I can't wait to come back to try a Danny Meyers restaurant, which just wasn't in the cards for this trip. My husband's interviews went quite well...so I may become a much more frequent visitor to these boards if we make the move to NY! Thanks for all of the input, Cheers, Michelle

Do I need to book in advance for Les Chevres? We would like to dine there on a Thursday night, 6/29. So I'm wondering just how popular a place this is, and if RSVPs are recommended even for weeknights.

I just re-read - that's the New Yorker! Just recently they "re-lit" their huge neon sign - that hotel has a lot of history! http://www.signweb.com/index.php/channel/12/id/1598 Anyway, just don't eat anywhere in the vicinity of that hotel, and you will be just fine. to the south, southeaast, east, and north, you are very good ← Well that's cool historical news...and as a plus, the newly lit sign will definitely help us find the hotel when we make the walk from Penn station Thursday night! Thanks again to everyone for the recommendations, I feel well informed now about eating choices!

Does Starr have any involvement in NYC? I've been to 2 or 3 of his Philly restaurants, and while they are very much concerned with creating an atmosphere to attract swanky hipsters above all else, I have to say that the food I had was not bad. But I much prefer frequenting the tucked away, cozy little BYOBs that our city is becoming well known for. And with any luck, they'll continue to do well enough so that Steven Starr can't buy them all up and turn them into modified food circuses.