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Leonard Kim

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Posts posted by Leonard Kim

  1. Mesa Grill got reviewed by Brian Miller in 1991 and Grimes in 2000, garnering 2 stars each time. Reichl gave 2 stars to the short-lived spinoff, Mesa City, in 1997.

    I've expressed the opinion a couple times that more recent reviews hold restaurants to higher standards than older reviews by the NY Times critics, as evidenced by the fact that the relative frequency of ratings given out hasn't changed much over the years, even though arguably the numbers of ambitious restaurants, and hence the average quality, has gone up.

    The other thing is that the Times used to have a statute of limitations on ratings, which was somewhat variable, but was 5 years-ish. From that standpoint, Mesa Grill's rating might be considered too old to be of use.

  2. There's very little out there, and some of the press have commented on how little the network is letting on, restricting the contestants from speaking to the press, etc. There is another thread here about the show:

    http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=104951

    What is known from the official press release, Ruhlman's blog, a couple of news articles, and other discussion forums: (I've omitted information already mentioned in the other thread, such as the names of the competitors and judges)

    The "next" Iron Chef will be a 5th chef, in addition to the four current.

    Alton is hosting.

    This show will run for 6 episodes. It's been in production throughout July and will air starting October 7 at 9 pm. Taping happened at the CIA, among other locations.

    Apparently there were ~30 preliminary candidates which was winnowed to 8 finalists. Only the 8 will be featured on the show.

    The format is not the Iron Chef competition format, but more reality-show-like in which competitors must accomplish various challenges, get eliminated, etc. (This is disappointing to me.)

    According to one discussion forum, mong those declining to compete was former challenger, Susur Lee.

  3. There was some question upthread as to how many visits went into one of Bruni's reviews. Enlisted to help answer a question on how restaurants get chosen for review, Bruni says,

    the newspaper's Dining section only reviews restaurants after a critic makes multiple visits — typically three at the minimum
  4. Just to calibrate -- Rachael and Emeril are actually only a little above the Bobby Flay level until 2006, when Rachael made a huge jump, which only halves the distance to Martha. Make another leap of approximately the same distance, and you're at Oprah/Paris levels -- and Flay's line starts to look awfully flat and zero-like.

    Picture: Top one shows, for United States, 2006, Bobby Flay in blue, Thomas Keller in red, and Robuchon in orange. On the bottom, Flay is still blue, Rachael Ray is orange, Martha Stewart is green, Oprah is red.

    gallery_41742_4891_5453.jpg

  5. Google Trends is a useful tool here, as it measures how often things are searched on the internet, and one can assume the overall number of Google users swamps the number of foodie Google users such that it can be taken as representative of how much somebody is in the consciousness of the non-foodie American.

    Anyway it looks like Flay, Bourdain, and Batali simply exist on another level in terms of searchability. Morimoto might be almost at this level, but it's hard to tell because 1) it seems nobody searches "Masaharu Morimoto" and 2) Morimoto not being an unusual Japanese surname, searching Morimoto by itself does not necessarily mean people intend to search the celebrity chef.

    I'd say there is another, obviously much lower level of visibility which is typified by people like Thomas Keller and Todd English. Gordon Ramsey actually spent some time in the Flay/Bourdain/Batali stratosphere, but is now at this level as well.

    People like Ducasse, Colicchio, Boulud, Bastianich, and Robuchon have occasional spikes (coinciding with newsworthy times) that reach this lower level, but are zeroes otherwise. Dieterle has one spike in which he's at the highest level, but is now at this level as well.

    Everybody else mentioned does not even show up as a blip.

  6. So based on these numbers, you can start asking the question, "Why isn't Houston a restaurant city?"  And San Diego.  And Minneapolis.  And Cleveland, home of the Heartland gathering (see you in a few days!). 

    FWIW, in the widely circulated Forbes Traveler list of ten best restaurant cities, Houston ranks no. 6.

    Way back in 1990, Money gave a top 15, of which Minneapolis was one, and both Cleveland and San Diego were cited among six additional "getting there" cities. So effectively, Detroit was not in the top 21, which is the point I made before -- the fact you could construct a reasonable top 20 without Detroit is evidence enough.

    Other than the novelty of Tapawingo's remote location, Tribute's excellence up until 2004, and Zingerman's, I don't think there are any compelling food destinations in the state. I could go further. I am a proud Michigander through and through, but objectively the only "must-gos" in the state are, to my mind, the Henry Ford Museum and various vacation spots up north (Tapawingo country -- FWIW, Mario Batali vacations in northern Michigan, in Leland, if I remember correctly.)

    I agree we could end this discussion. Thing is, I don't think it was ever intended to be an argument of whether Detroit is a "restaurant city" or not -- with one notable, enthusiastic dissenter, I think we all agreed from the outset it isn't. The original point of the thread was why not? But I think that's been batted around enough as well.

  7. i believe, though owned by cameron mitchell, mitchell's steakhouse in birmingham is the only one of its kind.  this should be counted according to the wikipedia definition.  plus its a good restaurant (or at least it was when i was there a couple years ago)

    Mitchell's Fish Market, per their website, has 17 locations, including 3 in metro Detroit. Cameron's Steakhouse has 4 locations. I think both should be considered chains, though I don't doubt they're good. There's no inherent contradiction between fine dining and chain restaurants, and I think we'll only see more of this phenomenon.

    mon-jin-lau & pallas are both great chinese.  does house of hunan still exist?

    Sure, Mon Jin Lau should (and does) make the list according to TJHarris. I've always understood it to be (and it is self-described as) "nu-Asian and sushi" so I wasn't thinking of it in my Chinese comment. I haven't been to Pallas, and will keep it in mind. FWIW, the Metro Times review thinks Hong Hua is better and more authentic, and Hong Hua has overall been more recognized I think, winning the Hour Magazine Restaurant of the Year (but so what.) Actually, the best Chinese meal I've had in the area was in Ann Arbor -- thing is I don't remember which place it was -- it's one of those places on Stadium west of the city. I actually mixed them up on a "return visit," went to the wrong place, and ended up with nothing special.

    i disagree.  outside of nyc, aren't most cities' ethnic restaurants less-than-fine dining?  a restaurant doesn't seem mexican, thai, indian, ethiopian, etc if it is fine dining.  i've lived in detroit, san francisco, and philadelphia, and the vast majority of ethnic restaurants i visited were not fine dining (actually i can't think of any). . . .

     

    you should try eating ethnic food in philly- (aside from italian of course) what little selection there is does not compare to places like new seoul garden, pita cafe, passage to india, and the blue nile (sorry philadelphians).

    Sure most. All I said was I think Detroit would have a better argument if it also had several examples of ethnic restaurants with greater ambition. You brought up Stephen Starr -- just looking at his restaurants, I see Cuban, Mexican, pan-Asian, Japanese, tapas, in addition to more conventional themes.

    I can only speak anecdotally. When I visited San Francisco, my friends took me to a Thai restaurant -- I didn't research or choose the place, and it's not like they were trying to wow or impress me -- it was just dinner out, and it was just in a different league than anything I've had in Detroit. One thing I'm trying to convey is that I don't think it's enough to serve the usual suspects (pad thai) in a nice-ish room (Rexy's Bangkok Cuisine comes to mind.)

    Or take Mexican -- when I visited Denver a couple years ago, I happened to have lunch at Tamayo. I didn't even think it was that great, but I'm not aware of anybody in the Detroit area attempting something like this. Or, if I want chicken mole, a hackneyed dish anywhere else, where can I go (in the suburbs)? As far as I know, I either get a chicken mole burrito at Qdoba or drive to Canton to Mexican Fiesta II, which is no great shakes and far too far to drive for such a common dish. (Somebody please help me here.)

    Another anecdote -- in Hour magazine, the chef at Streetside Seafood in Birmingham recommended, among other places, Grand Azteca Mexicano. Streetside Seafood isn't a bad place, so you'd think you could take these recs seriously. Grand Azteca is also cited as a "outstanding bargain" in the Detroit News. I've been twice now, and it's ridiculous: Chi Chi's bad. The Metro Times reviewed it recently, for some reason, and was, I think, much more on the mark: if you want Tex-Mex, don't want to drive to Detroit, and need nothing more than fajitas and the like, this place is "OK."

    http://www.metrotimes.com/guide/restaurant...ew.asp?id=10258

    The other recommendation by this chef was Grecian Place in Madison Heights which she called, "the best Greek outside Greektown." Well, to me it's a family restaurant, not a terrible one, but no better than that. Sure we have places like this in the area (Anita's Kitchen is another example that comes to mind), but this does not a restaurant city make.

    Thinking a bit more about TJHarris' list (which is a very good one I think) -- both have their detractors, but I think objectively the Beverly Hills Grill and Sweet Lorraine's belong.

  8. Mario's and Andiamo fill that requirement.

    I was unconsciously not counting Italian, since Italian restaurants are now ubiquitous enough be considered just "American" (i.e., not ethnic) in my own mind.

    I haven't eaten at Mario's. I don't think Andiamo is as terrible as Nathan apparently did, but I would never recommend it to a discerning out-of-town visitor and given a choice, would probably never think to go there myself. But that diatribe aside, there are certainly a large number of high end Italian places on TJHarris' list.

  9. I don't think NYC can be the standard for what constitutes a restaurant city. I think a better measure is where one thinks Detroit ranks in the nation as a restaurant city. I think almost nobody would argue, for example, that it's in the top ten. I haven't tried to make a list, but I'd guess a reasonable list could be made where it's not top 20. Relative to its size and prominence, the possibility of that kind of ranking is what I think is meant by saying Detroit disappoints as a "restaurant city."

    I'd say that Priya and New Seoul Garden are exactly what I had in mind as far as the failings of Detroit as a restaurant city. I eat at both quite often, and I'm not saying they're terrible, but believe me, when I travel out of Michigan, one of the biggest treats for me is to be able to go to non-Michigan ethnic restaurants.

  10. Another thing I note, and I meant to say this in response to an above post which claimed that ethnic foods are "well-represented" in the area, is the relative dearth of ethnic restaurants on your list.

    With our large Middle Eastern population, how is it that we don't have any great Middle Eastern restaurants? Can't we do better than La Shish? Look at the threads here and you see recommendations for places like Mr. Kebab, which resides in a gas station. (I'm not saying it's not a legitimate recommendation, but, c'mon, can't the area do better?)

    I can't think of a single truly notable Thai, Korean, or Indian place, even though I know that some affluent suburban schools in the area have an almost comical proportion of Asians. Hong Hua seems to be the only candidate on most lists for best, or at least fanciest, Chinese in the area. (Who am I to argue, but I had a laughably bad experience the one time I went.) Japanese is fairly well-represented, I guess, though I suspect on a national level there isn't a really outstanding example. It seems to me Mexican is a joke in the area, outside of Mexicantown. Ditto Greek outside Greektown (and maybe within too.)

    What it boils down to, for me, is that it seems almost all of the "recommended" ethnic places in the area fall under the unusually good cheap eats category. I think a true destination restaurant city, in addition to the quality cheap eats, needs to have multiple examples of ethnic restaurants at or approaching the fine dining level.

  11. To me this list shows that 1) metro Detroit really isn't a national dining destination but 2) of course there are decent places to eat in the area.

    It's a commonly acknowledged problem, in the press and otherwise, that the economy isn't helping matters. Just off the top of my head, your #11 Crush is already closed. #43 Fox and Hounds is closing in August.

    I personally wouldn't count Ann Arbor/Tecumseh or Windsor.

    Some of the places, Cameron's, Mitchell's, I would designate as "chains" even though they are undoubtedly expensive high end places. Just look at the websites for these places. Actually, a number of steakhouses in the area are places like Mortons or Ruth's Chris Steak.

  12. The eight Iron Chef hopefuls as per USA Today are:

    John Besh (New Orleans), executive chef, Restaurant August, Besh Steak, Luke and La Provence

    Chris Cosentino (San Francisco), executive chef, Incanto

    Jill Davie (Santa Monica, Calif.), executive chef, Josie

    Traci Des Jardins (San Francisco), executive chef and co-owner, Jardiniere, Mijita and Acme Chophouse

    Gavin Kaysen (San Diego), chef de cuisine, El Bizcocho at the Rancho Bernardo Inn

    Morou Ouattara (Washington, D.C.), executive chef and owner, Farrah Olivia

    Aaron Sanchez (New York), executive chef and owner, Centrico and Paladar

    Michael Symon (Cleveland), executive chef and owner, Lola and Lolita.

    6 of the 8 have been on the show before -- Besh and Des Jardins have both won (against Batali). Sanchez tied Morimoto. Symon, Cosentino, and Morou lost.

  13. Slight dissent -- I don't consider Milan a part of metro Detroit. If anything, it's to be associated with Ann Arbor. I know there's some difference about Ann Arbor's status -- I don't consider it a part of metro Detroit either (even though I used to commute between the two.) Ann Arbor's identity is so tied up with the university, I think it'd make little difference whether Detroit was sort of in the vicinity or not. In my posts, the area I'm considering isn't "hundreds of miles across." Maybe 30. Now, I don't think that area qualifies as any kind of dining destination, but I don't think it's a unique culinary void either, except in that it lacks an obvious hub where great restaurants are concentrated, which is admittedly probably unusual for a city like this.

    The Farmer Jacks closings are, I feel, not indicative of much except what we've all been saying -- Detroit proper isn't a particularly desirable place to live. In the suburbs, those locations are simply taken over by other chains: Kroger, Hollywood Market, whatever. And things continue to open in Detroit. Just yesterday the News had a feature on the forthcoming Asian Village, which "brings dining, shopping to downtown riverfront."

    http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A.../707120385/1042

  14. I think the university issue has been misrepresented, maybe by me. I do not think universities create dining destinations. Far from it. However, a certain kind of university can create a local, affluent, educated, food-interested community. Where would Ann Arbor's restaurant scene be without U of M? All I was saying is that population is something I don't see WSU giving Detroit. As for the DMC, I think the hospital issue is of even more questionable relevance (what city doesn't have a large hospital?) as I don't see one creating any kind of affluence/urban renewal/whatever. Would you eat near the Johns Hopkins medical campus?

    "Two world-class restaurants?" Nobody's saying there are no good restaurants in Detroit. On the other hand, this goes way too far in the other direction. I think most people would say there are about two restaurants in the state of Michigan that have even national recognition, and that's kind of the point.

  15. Well, there's never been a repeat "restaurant of the year" -- so it doesn't appear to be intended as "best of" anything, just recognition for one reason or the other.

    While we're throwing out this and that -- I wonder what influence Schoolcraft has on the local restaurant scene? I don't know much about it, but it seems to me that every third Michigan chef is a Schoolcraft grad. It's nice that we apparently have a strong culinary arts program in the area, but I wonder whether that might contribute to some of the homogeneity in our restaurant scene.

  16. Well I was thinking about mentioning the college factor, but didn't because I'm not sure of the facts. It seems likely that a college contributes somehow to the dining scene (in terms of providing consumers and, perhaps, raising the cultural level, including food.) But in Detroit's case, yes, Wayne State's right there, but I don't think of it as adding much in the way of a restaurant-going population because I don't think its faculty or students live on or near campus. Is there any other large American city that lacks a major, residential university in this way? Again, this is wholly my impression, unsupported by facts of any kind. And yes, there are some good places to eat around Wayne State.

    Oh, thinking about my above post (where I said probably if you had to pick one city's restaurants, you still might take Detroit over any of the suburbs or Ann Arbor) -- I guess I was unconsciously excluding Windsor. I don't know, but I get the sense that Windsor might be better than Detroit as a restaurant city.

  17. "metro Detroit" is understood to include the suburbs.

    There are some good restaurants in Detroit proper. If I had to choose to eat only in restaurants within Detroit city limits vs. any other nearby city, including Ann Arbor, objectively, I think Detroit might be the correct choice. The point I was trying to make is access -- I don't think anybody lives near these restaurants. I can't hop on any public transportation to take me near these restaurants. Maybe one goes to the city for a baseball game, or the casinos, or some museum or concert, and maybe one could include a nice dinner as part of those plans -- but personally that's not really practical for me at this point.

  18. I think for the purposes of this discussion it's important to consider the suburbs because, as pointed out, it's approximately true that there is no moneyed population in the city proper and because the suburban area (which I would take to include all of the cities mentioned by Nathan above) is big.

    I read about promising restaurants opening up in places like Novi or Rochester. But I'm not going to try them because, even though I also live in "suburban Detroit" (Royal Oak), that's a 45 minute drive. A common refrain in the threads around here is that many restaurants would be worth trying if you're close by, but almost none are worth the drive, and unfortunately, the geography of the area is such that most restaurants are 45 minutes away, no matter where you are.

    Case in point: Five Lakes Grill is probably in the top three of nationally recognized restaurants in Michigan (because of books by and about Brian Polcyn). (I'd say the other two are Tribute and Tapawingo, the latter, I agree, doesn't belong in the discussion.) I've been dining out in the area for 10 years and have never been. Why? Try mapquesting Royal Oak to Milford.

    I can testify as a local that the economy is tanking. That doesn't help. I never ate at Emily's though I always wanted to. I never did because of the 45 minutes factor. And now it's closed and Rick Halberg works for a supermarket.

    When Jeremy opened to near universal acclaim, the issue for everybody was, who's willing to make the drive to Keego Harbor? (Fortunately, it's just a few minutes away from my parents, in Bloomfield Hills, so I've been three times.) Eventually, responding to economic pressures, Jeremy trended casual -- where previously they had a tightly controlled menu of five or so items, now there's an entire section devoted to things like burgers and spaghetti -- and the critics are backpedaling from their initial enthusiasm.

    So, in short, I think geography (both extent and population distribution) is a key factor as well as the economy.

  19. Tiny change: as mentioned above, the romanizations are good (in that, in reading them, I knew what was being referred to without having to look at the description.) The only one that gave me pause was "oh-e" for cucumber. I see the "e" and think short vowel. You might consider o-i, o-ee, oh-i, oh-ee. . . I think the "official" romanization would be o-i, but agree that looks funny.

  20. My wife and I ate at Crust Pizza and Wine Bar tonight, in the strip mall on the southwest corner of Telegraph and Maple.

    Here's the Metro Times review (of the Rochester location.)

    http://www.metrotimes.com/guide/restaurant...iew.asp?id=9884

    We had the spinach-artichoke dip, which was good, though the relative dearth of cheese was initially disorienting -- after all, this dish is synonymous with "heartstopping cheese dish" at bad American restaurants everywhere.

    The chicken artichoke pizza was outstanding -- probably the best pizza texture I've had in the area (courtesy, I guess, of their 900 degree oven) and the toppings (chicken, artichoke hearts, grape tomatoes, asparagus) were delicious.

    As noted in the review, the dessert concept is genius. $2 for a small portion which eliminates the need to "leave room for dessert." Tasty too.

    I like the offering of wine flights too. You get three 2 oz servings of your choice, each costing less than a third of what you'd pay for a glass, though, as my wife grumpily noted, I ended up with more wine than she did in ordering a regular glass.

    Contrary to the review (both the Metro Times and the Free Press), we didn't find it crowded or noisy, probably because we got there pretty early (before 6). Service was generally fine with a minor hiccup at the beginning (we asked for a few minutes to choose our wine, and our server disappeared a little longer than that.)

    Prices seemed reasonable -- our appetizer, pizza, two glasses of wine, and two desserts came in under $40 before tip. They offer carryout. This certainly becomes an option, kid-friendly too, for us when we're in the area, which is reasonably often.

  21. "Julie and Julia: 365 Days, 524 Recipes, 1 Tiny Apartment Kitchen," by Julie Powell, and while I know she has a blog now I'm actually not sure where the Julie/Julia blog is archived.

    My wife bought me this book for my birthday a week ago, then proceeded to read it before me. Anyway, I've basically just finished it.

    The blog itself is in the same old place:

    http://blogs.salon.com/0001399/

    I don't have anything illuminating to say that the reviewers haven't already said. The writer's voice is the same. The NYT review contended the structure of the book is indebted to blogging (a defect in that reviewer's opinion.) I guess the reviewer saw it as a blog about the blog.

    (It's not the blog itself--reading the book is not a substitute for reading the blog. The book, of course, quotes the blog, but actually does it less than you might expect.)

    There is the literary conceit of having the chapters interspersed with fictionalized snapshots of Julia and her husband's courtship. These brief episodes show Powell's blog voice is not her only one. I think that's worth considering within the topic of "books by bloggers."

    For me, the most affecting part of this book as it relates to the blog was the revelation of Julia Child's own unkind comments just as the project was coming to a close. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that was mentioned in the original blog (though Julia's mixed reaction was in fact alluded to in a thread here).

  22. Perhaps one of our historians (ahem, Leonard) can point to a few examples of crossover reviews.

    Without doing any research myself, there is an Asimov Q&A on this site in which he gives a couple examples of "$25 and under" restaurants that have full reviews:

    Actually, some restaurants that I reviewed in $25 and Under eventually did get stars. I was the first to review 71 Clinton Street, and more recently Petrosino. Believe it or not, I reviewed Jewel Bako when it first opened and it was possible to eat there for less than $25. Perhaps on some level I realized that all of these places were worthy of stars, but I wanted to write about them and it wasn't really my job to tell other people what I felt they ought to write about. There are plenty of other places that I reviewed that could have stars under other circumstances -- Al Di La, Grand Sichuan, 360 come to mind -- but that's the way things go.

    BTW, Asimov seems to be wrong about Grand Sichuan. Reichl reviewed it in 1997 (so I guess that'd qualify as a "crossover review.") Asimov covered Grand Sichuan International, International Midtown, and East from 1999-2003.

    I don't know why "$25 and under" was inaugurated when it was, but I haven't seen any indication that the intention was to start splitting reviewing duties by cost. Miller continued to review some relatively inexpensive places after its inception. Perhaps the main point is simply that it allows more reviews (a particular boon once Miller left the scene less than 1.5 years later, and Reichl went to the single restaurant review format).

    Of course the reduced space, lack of stars, and price limit do make a "prestige" distinction between the two columns, and Bruni sort of recognizes that in his latest:

    But first let’s do something we don’t do often enough. Let’s take the occasion. . . to pause and appreciate Katz’s. To take its measure in a format that grants it the kind of recognition typically reserved for restaurants more proper but no more deserving.
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