annecros
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Posts posted by annecros
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Wow.
It was milk or juice or coffee for the grownups in our house. We were allowed a soft drink every once in a while. Sweet tea was always around (and is a pretty good source of folic acid, even though it is loaded with sugar), but the children in my family were not allowed to drink it other than at lunch. Mom said it would keep us up all night, and made us drink water.
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My first reaction to this story was very similar to Anna N's reply. Certainly, a lot of traditional southern food is very calorie-dense, but it evolved as fuel for people who participated in hard labor. When many of us came in from the fields and sat down at a desk, our diets were slower to evolve than our lifestyles.
That said, though, I think that there may be an essential misunderstanding of what Southern food encompasses. Sure, fried chicken and gravy and lard and pecan pie are "traditional," but so are fresh tomatoes and cucumbers, dark leafy greens, squash, sweet potatoes, fruits, etc. And, as near as I can tell, that fried chicken was more the exceptional meal than the rule: Sunday dinner, when the preacher came to visit. Monday through Saturday, beans and rice were more likely to provide the main protein course. And those fresh vegetables that were so readily available, along with some cornbread. The other "mistranslation" I see of traditional rural diets versus modern: As is typical today, "dinner" was the main meal of the day, but on the farm, "dinner" is that meal served at noontime. "Supper" was/is generally a lighter meal of leftovers, served at the end of the day. Thus, those farm meals were pretty much what doctors would prescribe today -- Filling breakfast, filling lunch, eat lightly at the end of the day, lots of fresh foods and veggies, lots of exercise.
(And this is the point where I generally tell the story of my great-grandmother, a farmer who was warned by her doctor that she should give up pork for her health's sake. Granny attended that doctor's funeral, outlived the next doctor, and settled on another before finally succumbing to heart disease. At age 92. Yes, she ate bacon or fatback or ham every day, but she also worked. Every day. Hard, physical, taxing labor.)
Yeah, we both know that. But the southern diet has been so stigmatized, by people who never ate it or even looked at it closely, that people just don't get it.
I guess they learn through repitition, and heard the same myths over and over again, and it is hard to get through to them.
Paula Dean is doing us no favors either. Although to be fair, she makes no bones about the fact that the food she is demonstrating is over the top. And it is. She is carrying some excess weight around, but to be fair so is Mario. Her sons are in great shape though, and judging by their size, it was probably a challenge over the years to keep those two fueled up. I have a son that size. When he went to fix a sandwich, it was a loaf of bread, not a couple of slices. It was also darn near a box of cereal as opposed to a bowl. But he is very active and always has been. When he wasn't racing bicycles, he was playing football or weight training.
I can see where he may have a weight issue as he gets older. In fact I am certain of it. He is going to have to struggle with reducing his intake according to his physical activity.
My husband is the biggest consumer of fats in the house. Three pints of ice cream a week, miracle whip or butter on his bread and lots of it, four or five eggs at a time, fishes the ham hock out of the vegatables and claims it all for himself. He has the lowest body fat ratio, lowest cholesterol and lowest blood pressure in the house. The man is 6' tall and weighs 150 wet. He also sits in a cubby at his computer all day long, the most exercise he gets is walking to the lunch room. Sometimes he cuts the grass on the weekend.
Go figure.
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I'm trying to imagine the shame I would feel if, as a young child at school, I was lectured on how grossly unhealthy my beloved, family-cherished Yorkshire puddings and mincemeat pies were. This reminds me of a tactic used by the Red Guards during the Cultural Revolution in 1960's China: Use the children to change society. Wrong, wrong, wrong!
I believe part of the problem in the cuisine of the South lies in the more-readily available food supply. What used to be foods or dishes for special occasions or seasonally available - pecan pies only in the winter after the nut harvest, say; fried chicken only after late July when the chicks from spring had grown large enough - have now become staples year 'round. It's thrown the naturally-limiting quality of these gorgeous, rich food out of whack.
I think the problem with obesity in the south has more to do with people moving away from the cuisine and into the fast food, soft drink, chip culture.
If these kids would substitute that bowl of collards and piece of cornbread with a glass of lemonade for the McD's value meal once in a while they would be better off. The traditional southern food is much more nutritionally dense, and will stick to your ribs for a while.
But these kids are being told specifically to avoid these foods. And after being raised on the cusine, the skinless broiled chicken breast and steamed broccoli will not do it for them. They will head right out to the burger joint or vending machine and load up on junk.
It is just too silly.
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I have never seen a deep fried twinkie on a southern plate.
I wouldn't eat one if offered. I've never liked twinkies in general. Now Little Debbie's, that's a different matter.
Surely you are not attempting to compare a deep fried twinkie to a pot of collards nutrition wise, are you?
While the deep fried twinkie comment was meant as hyperbole, during my time as an undergrad in NC I did come across a fair share of deep fried twinkies, snickers bars, etc., mostly at music festivals in the area. Though not as well established as collard greens or grits, they did seem to be a sort of 'regional cuisine'.
Hmm. So you are conceding that the deep fried twinkie does not compare with the bowl of collards as far as an established part of the southern diet is concerned? What do you think of the nutritional value of a bowl of collards, that these school children were told would kill them?
By the way, the Deep Fried Twinkie was born in New York City.
http://www.kitchenproject.com/history/twin...riedTwinkie.htm
New York City? Yep, get a rope.
The Deep Fried Snickers? Probably related to the Deep Fried Mars Bar enjoyed in Scotland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Deep-fried_Mars_bar
Scotland? Yep. The bounders. Not enough lard in their chips, I suppose.
I will cop to the fried dill pickles, chicken and green tomatos. So what? Still didn't eat them every day.
Fair food does not a regional cuisine make.
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I would propose that most of what is served in southern households is more akin to conveience foods ,lots of sodas, lots more fast foods, store bought snacks(the fresh bakeries and the fake crap they push) and then there's the captive auduences at the schools and that swill. Not to mention the sedimentary lifestyles....
And what would you base your preposition on, please do tell?
I was born and raised in East Tennessee, lived all over the south from Charleston, to Charlotte, to Memphis, to New Orleans, etc. Just take a look in the shopping carts, and the number of fast food chains and how busy they are. Then go visit any public school, elementary or High, have lunch, and see for yourself. There is probably a more scholarly approach to this, and economical stats to confuse all, but just simple observations are most compelling I think. I also believe obescity rates are much higher in the south.
Check it out,
http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/trend/maps/
Yep, in some southern states obesity rates are higher. Now explain the Great Lakes area.
Last I heard, collards and cornbread were not a staple there.
Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida are right there with California, Maine and New York.
You were raised in Tennessee, and never went to a Farmer's Market or saw a roadside produce stand? I know you did in Charleston and New Orleans, surely in Memphis you must have run across one or two?
And while you were in Charleston and New Orleans, did you not run across the roadside shrimp carts, go to the green markets, or down to the docks?
Never?
They get pretty darn crowded.
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Certainly general life-style plays a role here, but at the same time, certain foods simply are less healthy for you than others. Moderation may help with damage control, but a deep-friend Twinkie is always going to be a net negative in terms of nutrition.
Interesting. I was born and raised in the south. Have eaten the foods of many neighboring southern regions, and have been pretty open minded in sampling foods any chance I get from any culture that may have something good to offer in the area of food.
I have never seen a deep fried twinkie on a southern plate.
I wouldn't eat one if offered. I've never liked twinkies in general. Now Little Debbie's, that's a different matter.
Surely you are not attempting to compare a deep fried twinkie to a pot of collards nutrition wise, are you?
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I would propose that most of what is served in southern households is more akin to conveience foods ,lots of sodas, lots more fast foods, store bought snacks(the fresh bakeries and the fake crap they push) and then there's the captive auduences at the schools and that swill. Not to mention the sedimentary lifestyles....
And what would you base your preposition on, please do tell?
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relevant article from today's NY Times here: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/07/science/07conv.html
Interesting. I wonder if the good doctor took into account the level of misdiagnosis that was going on in the south as late as the 1950s and 1960s when the doctor covered four counties, most people died at home without formal medical care, and the most predominant cause of death at the time was "vitamin deficiency."
I kid you not.
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I would have to object to the assumption made in the article that Southern food is unhealthy across the board. Granted, you will get more fat and salt than you want eating a primarily southern diet. However, you will also get fresh uncooked tomatoes, fresh uncooked cucumber in a salad dressed with a little vinegar and mostly black pepper. How is a pot of chicken and dumplins less healthier than a pot of chicken soup with noodles in it? The okra may be boiled in the pot with the peas and side meat, but it is usually lightly cooked. The collards? Look at the nutritional value this stuff has:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=138
You will also find tomato, turnip greens, mustard greens, peanuts, cabbage, green beans, summer squash, sweet potato, blueberries, fig, watermelon, corn (and what is the big fuss about meal? It is just ground dried corn, and cornbread just has an egg and some buttermilk added), molasses, honey and cane juice on that list. In fact, I am struck that most of those items on the "World's Healthiest Foods" list can be associated with southern or oriental foodways.
At one time or another, all these items were on the dinner table on a regular basis. If my parents didn't grow it themselves, they knew somebody who did. And when the items were out of season, we ate them after having been canned, preserved, jellied or frozen at home. Anyone with a yard did the same. In fact I remember getting sick of eating creamed corn (which is mostly corn, with the addition of salt, pepper, enough butter and milk to loosen up the starch in the corn) because we had to use up the frozen before the new crop came in.
Instead of leaving these foods out of the diet altogether, shouldn't emphasis be placed upon cooking methods, perhaps? And in fact, it is a myth that ALL southern foods are fried, or swimming in fat. It is even hard to come by decent lard in the south anymore. Mom roasted chickens, braised roasts, sauted vegetables.
Of course, I will keep my hamhocks and bacon, thank you. Everything in moderation, including moderation.
ETA: I missed the cantaloupe, eggplant, bell peppers, onions, grapes, strawberries and sunflower seeds on that list my first go round. Yep, we grew them right on the homeplace or at grandaddies, and we ate them all.
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I recently tried a new flavor: almond hazelnut swirl ice cream. It includes hazelnut paste and little almond bits, and it tastes like a kind of poor man's hazelnut gelato. Since I loved hazelnut gelato (usually cioccolato e nocciola) in Italy, I can enjoy this Haagen-Dazs flavor here.
I also noticed an alluring new flavor on the Haagen-Dazs website: english toffee ice cream. I want some of that! Anyone tried it yet? I haven't seen it in stores so far.
The Almond Hazelnut Swirl is my husband's "go to" flavor. He is really the number one ice cream consumer in the household. He used to be a devoted Ben and Jerry's fan, Wavy Gravy to be exact, but he decided to convert to HD when Pillsbury took over B&J, and hasn't been back in some time.
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That prime rib has me wanting to learn how to do that. Oddly enough, I haven't attempted such a baronial hunk of cow in years.
All of you bacon freaks (yes, I am one) . . . Do you do your bacon in the oven? I like my bacon very crispy, so that it shatters. I have the heavy aluminum half sheet pans that I got at the restaurant supply. I also have racks that fit the pans. The restaurant supply that I shop at quit carrying the racks. But, Amazon finally started carrying the same racks that I have. I do line the bottom of the pan with foil just to make clean-up easier. I can do a whole pound of bacon per sheet at a time. And I find that having the rack allows for even crisper bacon because the fat drains away as it cooks. I store the cooked bacon in zipper bags in the fridge for adding to salads, sandwiches or baked potatoes. Waddayu mean? Of course I save the bacon fat.
Oh, yeah, oven temperature. I most often use 375 F but if I suspect or know that the bacon has a lot of sugar, I will back off to 350 F. My local HEB has a store brand (some of their store brands are very good), I think it is called Black Forest or something, that has maple syrup as part of the cure. It is one of my favorites and I do have to back down the temp on that one. Oddly enough, that store brand of bacon from a rather local Texas chain is made in Canada.
I do my bacon in a skillet, but drain off the fat as it is cooking, and cook it on a relatively low heat.
I like mine crisp as well, but do like a little bit of flexibility in the strip when I take it up. Once it cools for a minute, it gets lovely and crunchy.
Now, time for a BLT for lunch, I think.
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. . . . I've been considering quitting smoking. I'm not sure what I'm waiting for, but it's definitely not what I received in the mail from my dad yesterday: Leroy Jenkins Miracle Water.
Daddy is desperate for me to quit smoking, so the other day he called and asked me if I'd drink something if he sent it to me - something that was guaranteed to make me quit immediately.
Follow the link. I reckon getting a nice infusion of eColi might just do the trick, but I think I'll pass.
Don't count on it, Marsha. A dedicated smoker will rationalize anything, even puffing through intestinal meltdown.
One thing this blog has confirmed is my suspicion that the Society has a disproportionately large proportion of smokers compared to the population at large. The connection between food and smoking is pretty strong, especially among professionals. I actually picked up the habit in a restaurant kitchen, where everyone -- chef, line cooks, dishwashers -- smoked. Two weeks and I was hooked.
Oral gratification. That hand to mouth get a goodie thing. It's downright emotional, over and above the physical misery.
I quit both times I was pregnant. I quit when we were concerned about my husband's heart. Stayed quit for a year all three times, but gosh, I have a hard time quitting for my own benefit. And, I get fat. The caloric intake increases some, but not enough to justify the weight gain I have personally experienced. The docs will be happy, though. Until the weight gain and cholesterol increase gets them fussing at me again.
Ice water helps, a lot.
We plan on quitting within the week, together. We set the quit date. I dread it. I dread the skin crawling thing more than anything, the jumpiness and the anxiety I can talk myself down from. Should be a fun time down at my household...not.
But we can do it.
When I have quit in the past, the smell of cigarette smoke, especially in the open air, would actually make me "hungry" for a cigarette. A very real hunger sensation. Weird.
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My colleague here at work roasts and grinds his coffee beans with slivered ginger. We drink it "tubruk" style, that is -- brewed by pouring boiling water over coffee grounds and sugar -- no milk or cream. It's heavenly.
heh.
We call that the hurricane method here in Florida.
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Quite a few years ago, fish restaurants always had a few items for fish haters.
Usually steak, burgers, or chicken. But swordfish was always included in this category, and sometimes halibut or sole.
Alas, swordfish disappeared from the menus in the 1970's, and I never tried it. Does anyone know if it was truly the best tasting fish for fish haters?
Is it available today, on a limited scale, without mercury? Will it ever make a comeback?
Swordfish is all over the place. As for the mercury... What? You don't like mercury?
Unfortunately, mercury is a contaminant that is common in fish and it is particularly common in long-living or predatory fish. In most parts of the world the methylmercury is actually of natural origin.
But swordfish is still pretty common to American menus. The USDA warns some people against consuming too much, I believe, although I don't recall the guideline or to whom it applied.
They are also a bill fish. We boycott them because they are endangered, but man are they good!
Tuna steaks grilled taste beefy to me.
I don't care for catfish because of the texture. Too much mush.
I actually really, really like cod. And yep, halibut is good. Stuff a flounder, maybe?
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Mini bottle laws in South Carolina.
"Ugly Ripe" tomatoes cannot be shipped out of Florida during the winter months, because they are ugly, and not in conformation with the plastic tomatoes most people associate with Florida.
Citrus must be fumigated before it goes to Europe.
I would like to bring some cheese back from there, as well.
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Disaster brings out the best and the worst in people. Sometimes at the same time.
I think there is a grain of truth there when Emeril vented his spleen. Fortunately for NOLA, the problems with the administration of the city can, and I am sure will, be fixed soon.
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Well, you can still color me skeptical.
No, I would not knowingly eat a sick animal. That's just common sense, isn't it?
But, on the other hand, this all smacks of the Avian Flu hype and such.[...]
Thousands and thousands of people die of "normal" flu every year, there has at least once been a flu epidemic that killed some 40 million people, flu virus is highly susceptible to mutation and can be highly contagious, a significant number of scientists are very concerned that avian flu could turn into a form that could cause a pandemic, and avian flu has killed some 53% of the human beings who have had it, including young, previously healthy individuals. As I posted previously in another thread, I don't think that's a reason to panic, but I surely think that's a reason to watch the disease very closely and take steps to control its spread among both the bird and human populations. So if you think this is similar...
Please don't get me wrong.
Study, study, study.
Find a cure, the sooner the better.
I am all for science and progress. I just am not all for a bunch of hype that effects only a small fraction of the population at this time.
For goodness sake, more people died of starvation than avian flu this year.
That, to my mind, is a sin.
No one person on this planet need go hungry. I am shamed at times cleaning my own fridge.
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After screaming "Khaaann!" It is apropos to follow it up with, "you bastard!!!!!"
Also, the Japanese had it right. There is no dishonor in death. That is a western construct.
Teehee.
Allright.
"KAAAHNNN!!!! You BASTARD."
Doubly ended rant. If you can do that.
I feel much better now.
Thanks for your patience.
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Oh wow. You guys are really coming close to home now. The whole predisposition, then trigger, and you have to have both, have been done to death in my home. Same for any other home that is hosting a member of the rheumatological victims of this years mystery disease, and injectibles are just the ticket. Sucks. Sucks as bad as being diabetic, but probably not as bad as being a cancer patient who goes and gets poison delivered introvenously on a regular basis.
I have scleroderma. My father had ankylosing spondilitis. My grandmother, two aunts, and two uncles died of stroke in their fourth decade of life. Grandma on the other side lived to be 97. Who the freak knows? Not me. I have accepted the whole silly fact that I am human and mortal. It was hard, buy hey, the truth hurts sometimes.
Yep, the HLA B27 marker runs rampant in the family. Yep, it really sucked when I had always been told that females almost never have the type of arthritis that my father's life changing arthritis was, but however, one in five children carry the gene.
Yep, the ONLY girl on that side won the lottery.
Who cares? Honestly. Somebody had to get it. It will no more stop me than it stopped my father.
You can live your life feeling sorry for yourself and expect others to fetch and carry and be all nice and lovey dovey.
Or, you can live.
I choose to live.
Just try and stop me.
(shaking my fist and screaming "KAAAAHHHNN" or some such)
Dad always said I was pure hell.
Annie
Edit to add: END RANT. and I mean it.
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Well, you can still color me skeptical.
No, I would not knowingly eat a sick animal. That's just common sense, isn't it?
But, on the other hand, this all smacks of the Avian Flu hype and such. I guess it wouldn't be too difficult for some unethical person to slip a sick animal into the food supply.
I guess I am from the there is nothing new under the sun school of thought. Can disease cross species? Of course. Will I lay awake at night worrying that I am going to contract Chroic Wasting Disease? Nope.
Seems like it has been nearly two years since I have eaten Venison anyway. I eat fresh produce every day, and E Coli can kill. So can hepititis. So can just plain old food poisoning. So can high cholesterol, stroke, heart disease, morbid obesity, etc. etc.
You pay your money and take your chances.
You are making too much sense.
here's my "beef"--
If one goes to the web site referenced (linked) in the original post on this topic: "news@nature.com"
One sees a web page listing articles.
titles and verbage like:
Surgery Risk from prions
..prion clusters are catching
Did human remains spawn the infection...?
A wolf in sheeps clothing
Latest worrying research.
Lab case sparks fears
..survey causes spectre..."
secrets of a past prion epidemic...
Wow--this is pretty serious. I better read these so I can protect myself and my family!
Only--when attempting to read the actual story behind these urgent headlines--I find that I must sign up and spend seven bucks! (a month).
See what I am getting at here?
This stuff is the same as the dire warnings like: "your non stick pan may be killing you and your loved ones--tune in to twenty twenty at ten!"
I am not sure who is more guilty--me for not shelling out seven bucks to save my family or the folks at news at nature dot com for charging people for information they obviously feel would save lives!?
Seriously, maybe the articles present a sane and balanced perspective on a troubling topic. But forgive me for being just a bit skeptical of things.
Yes there is a link to a paper on prions that is only a part of an ongoing review by the scientific community that is important and has and will continue to yield some conclusions that will help all of us understand the prion issue better and make informed decisions.
It is important to keep some basic facts in mind and to apply common sense and perspective.
I would recommend that people go to the CDC web site where one will get good information (all of it for free).
Also the posts by PatrickS in this and other threads (mad cow, teflon etc) which are loaded with facts and rational thinking.
It is good to be concerned and even better to be informed.
most of all-healthy skepticism is important especially when dealing with the media.
It is a shame when a place like eGullet provides better factual information and more rational debate and resultant insight on a food/health related topic than ABC News given their resources and huge audience).
(probably the reason--I bet-- eGullet and other internet based locales are growing faster than ABC News).
Anyway--that's my "beef"--which reminds me--I am going to enjoy a rack of venison this weekend which I am doing because Morgan Spurlock showed what happens when you eat too much of one thing and I had beef twice this week already.
Don't worry--the other four days-I am having pasta and vegetables and lots of salads and fish.
I wish I knew who said: "Too much of a good thing...."
Now there's something that makes sense!
My favorite is:
"Everything in moderation. Including moderation."
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Well, you can still color me skeptical.
No, I would not knowingly eat a sick animal. That's just common sense, isn't it?
But, on the other hand, this all smacks of the Avian Flu hype and such. I guess it wouldn't be too difficult for some unethical person to slip a sick animal into the food supply.
I guess I am from the there is nothing new under the sun school of thought. Can disease cross species? Of course. Will I lay awake at night worrying that I am going to contract Chroic Wasting Disease? Nope.
Seems like it has been nearly two years since I have eaten Venison anyway. I eat fresh produce every day, and E Coli can kill. So can hepititis. So can just plain old food poisoning. So can high cholesterol, stroke, heart disease, morbid obesity, etc. etc.
You pay your money and take your chances.
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OK, this is why I'm getting a divorce. In 7 years of marriage, I never ONCE got felt up or goosed while cooking.
Oh dear! That's a moral imperative for a working marriage! When Becky stops molesting me while I'm cooking, I'll know to check her pulse!
Is it a bad sign that I'm also very protective of my cast-iron?
Depends upon how well seasoned it is. Do you let her touch it?
Low-Fat Diet Won't Stop Cancer or Heart Disease
in Food Traditions & Culture
Posted
I think this is the rub. Somebody should study it.