Sneakeater

That's funny. I've had gnocchi I've definitely thought that about, but it wasn't in a GOOD way. (My mother's matzoh balls, too, now that I think of it.)

Not that this is at all on-topic for this thread, or important, or that I want to start an argument with you, but I don't t think Cafe Gray looks like a three-star restaurant. I think it's glitzy, but in a sort of cheap (in terms of taste, not expense), unsophisticated (and noisy and crowded) way. To put it charitably, it looks like it's trying to be "fun." I think that's a big part of its problem. It has this decor that leads you to expect not-that-complicated, not-that-expensive food, yet they serve three-star food at three-star prices. As I said, I don't think the room can support the prices. So I think the room looks (and feels) JUST like a cafe. That's a big part of the problem. It LOOKS like a cafe. It FEELS like a cafe. It has a cafe's level of service. But they serve high-end restaurant food at high-end restaurant prices. You can't appreciate the food in that setting, and the prices are way out of line for the level of comfort and service you get.

I had dinner here last night as a walk-in (at about 7:15 or so), alone at the bar (hear that, jeffo?). Started with the asparagus/egg/duck braseola/parmigiana/salad with truffled dressing appetizer. A very good variation on a favorite dish: the salty smoked duck works very well in this. Potato gnocchi with lamb bolognese/ricotta/mint. Very good. Maybe they read eG, cuz there was certainly enough mint. Pork tenderloin with [i forgot what it was with]. Too often, pork is presented as tasteless bits of white protien. This tasted like PORK. Very good. In fact, the pork was perfectly prepared: moist, almost fork-tender. The technical skills of this kitchen are extremely impressive. I enjoyed all this food very much. But I keep thinking that this restaurant is "merely" a very high-functioning version of a neighborhood Italian place. I think that gaf nailed it with his paragraph about the robustness of Italian cuisine being a barrier to transcendence. (Altough sometimes it can be transcendent in its robust simplicity. The problem with the kind of somewhat fancified Italian they serve at places like this is that it doesn't have the soulful punch of really simple, robust Italian cooking but on the other hand can't reach the refined heights of French cuisine.) It wouldn't bother me, of course, if I didn't remember Carmellini's Cafe Boloud days with such pleasure. Still, a delicious meal.

I am going to post, for no particular reason, that "the menu" at Guy Savoy in Paris years ago was the best single meal I have ever had.

Since at least one person misunderstood, here's a translation: Q: Do you go to Shake Shack? A: Yeah, when there isn't a line. Q: When isn't there a line? A: Never!

At least this year, this reminds me of an interview I once read, back in the Sixties, with the blues singer Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup. INTERVIEWER: Will white boys ever be able to sing the blues? BIG BOY: Sure, when they get the feeling. INTERVIEWER: When will they get the feeling? BIG BOY: Never!

I just want to say, somewhat uselessly, how great I think this is.

The Cafe Gray thread is actually very interesting, because you can see people struggling over time to deal with that restaurant and what is wrong with it. Just as an example, Fat Guy posited early on that people were having trouble with Cafe Gray because it was Gray Kunz's "second" restaurant at a time when Kunz didn't/doesn't have a "first". I think Fat Guy realized over time that that's not the problem. In fact, Cafe Gray would probably look like a worse value if Kunz had a "first" restaurant running. Anyway (there is a point to this), a comparison that was made early on in that thread was between Cafe Gray and L'Atelier Robouchon. I've never been to L'Atelier in Paris (and am eagerly but apprehensivley awaiting the opening in New York [since I have a sinking feeling the New York branch is going to get it wrong]), but based on what I've read L'Atelier bears no resemblence to Cafe Gray. It sounds more like . . . Upstairs at Bouley Bakery & Market. The food is simplified from Robouchon's three-star fare (OK: Bouley's top restaurant no longer is top-star-rated). And the restaurant itself is simplified to almost a food bar (as Todd described Upstairs). But in a very tasteful way, that focuses you on the food. And, of course, the food -- while not cheap -- is significantly cheaper than the three-star food was. That well describes Upstairs. Cafe Gray, though, is very different. It's not a tasteful, stripped-down venue, but a tasteless, overly glitzy venue. And while we don't know what Gray Kunz would now be charging at a "first" restaurant, the food at Cafe Gray is, simply put, expensive, in a way the food at Upstairs isn't, and that the room and service at Cafe Gray don't support. What bugs me the most about this comparison is that I actually prefer the food at Cafe Gray to the food at Upstairs. But there's no question that I prefer going to Upstairs.

Well, wait. Maybe I'm wrong. What are some good Greek pizza places in Boston (at least for a start, please keep it just in Boston, not elsewhere in New England)?

You may like it cuz you're used to it, but believe me . . . .

(I'm sorry for that rather banal post. I'm just so excited, now that I have the means to make cocktails at home, that I can't contain myself.)

1 oz. Junipero gin 1 oz. Campari .5 oz. Carpano Antiquo Formula .5 oz. Vya Dry Vermouth Orange slice Delicious. Slightly better -- I dunno, lighter but more complex -- than with all Carpano Antiqua Formula for the "vermouth" part.

I don't know if this thread is the place for it, but you could get into a very interesting discussion of the differences between Upstairs and Cafe Gray, and why Upstairs succeeds as a toned-down (not the word I'm looking for, but I can't grasp the right word right now) haute cuisine place and Cafe Gray doesn't. Price isn't all of it.

Again: Exactly.

Thanks to Todd for some of the most useful info I've ever gotten from this board. Really, just great.

Something for everything who likes rock music by white people. Blue Ribbon is big after-hours chef's hang-out and well known as such. It's a good place to go late at night (even if you're not a chef). Some people think it's really great, but I think the point is more that it's open.

It's interesting. Bouley aims at transcendence, and, too much of the time, misses. Upstairs aims lower (for much less of a price) and nails it.

Exactly.

1. Yes they had the Italian menu. 2. I know that lots of places have better sake selections. (I mean, a LOT better: Upstairs only has, what, six?) I was only commenting on the one particular sake I ordered. 3. I agree that the halibut isn't transcendent. Nothing I've had there (in two visits) has been transcendent. I don't expect transcendent everytime I eat out. I don't even WANT transcendent every time I eat out. At any rate, I certainly don't expect transcendent (from a mainstream, non-ethnic restaurant) at Upstairs's relatively modest prices.

No.

I just got back from dinner at Franny's in Brooklyn. The pre-tax-and-tip bill was EXACTLY THE SAME as I remember its being at Upstairs at Bouley. This almost makes me think I misremembered -- or even worse, misread -- the bill at Upstairs (I hope I didn't seriously undertip -- I thought I was overtipping I bit). But what if I didn't? What does that say about what kind of value Upstairs is? (Even if everyone -- including its biggest fans, like me -- agrees that Franny's is somewhat overpriced.)

One thing that's slightly bothersome, though, is that they're still serving the halibut dish (with the corn) and the lobster dish (with the apples) now in early summer. So they're not exactly going for seasonality (is that a word?).

Since my first visit here was marred by my unknowingly undergoing an appendicitis attack while I was trying to eat and appreciate dinner, I resolved to return as soon as I was again able to eat solid food and stand a crowd. Since I'm still an invalid, I was able to leave work early enough yesterday (Friday) to actually arrive here at a time when I could get a seat (about 6:45, a solo seat at the sushi bar without waiting). By the time I left at 8 or 8:30, they were only announcing 15-minute waits, though. So perhaps it's cooled down a bit -- or perhaps the summer weekend slow-down has started. This place is terrific. I started with an appetizer from the Japanese menu. Kamo, marinated duck with sliced eggplant. The duck was extraordinary. The marinade was very spicy, but did not completely mask the flavor of the duck. Rather, it gave it depth and a kick. With the kamo, I had a sake unlike any I've previously tasted. I can't remember its name. The menu described it as tasting like a riesling, with green apple overtones and a yoghurty finish. Amazingly, that was absolutely accurate. For my main, I had the halibut that everybody has liked so much. I have nothing to add to what's been said about it. An excellent dish. Desserts seem to fall off a bit here. I had a very deeply chocolately brulee, which I liked very much. But it didn't rise to the heights of the rest of the meal. My three courses, cocktail, and glasses of sake and then of wine came to about $66 before tax and tip. That may not be cheap, by some people's lights. But for David Bouley food -- even slightly simplified David Bouley food -- beautifully prepared, inventively assembled, it's a true value. The restaurant Bouley (where I last ate about two years ago) has its problems. But Upstairs is a complete win.

I recently had major abdominal surgery. I couldn't eat solid food for days. Finally, the day came when I could solid food again. I was hungry. I was bored with jello. I was excited. They brought me this salsbury steak in this brown sauce. It was much too salty. It tasted like tar. And it was COLD. I mean, like, chilled. Generally speaking, it was disgusting. I had about three bites and left it. The next meal -- highly processed "chicken" breast in some kind of repulsive mucky mustard sause -- was no better. What a major disappointment! I couldn't wait to get out.

You know, I recently stumbled upon "Three Sheets" and "Beer Nutz", and my thoughts about them mirrored what I think about porn. To wit, why do I want to watch other people drink?