Endy'

I haven't been either, but it's (IN)famous for the stinky tofu. From what I've seen in passing and have heard, your understanding is correct. I'm not sure though what percentage of the stalls are food, but it's not 100%.

it was almost 2 months ago so hopefully things have changed back, but when I visited Kintaro (on a Saturday) I was told they no longer do the Forest Fire.

ah, thank you Anchoress. The comments make more sense now with that context.

really? I'm not into chef talk/gossip; is Rob Feenie disliked (as a person)? Is Susur Lee seen (in Vancouver) as a rockstar chef?

the restaurant described it as them "closing briefly" after 31 May and that they would reopen in the same space "with the same staff" after that. They didn't have details on when, and I got the impression that the name and concept would be different, but I don't remember the exact words. This is for Susur; Lee, as others have said, won't be affected.

The innuendo in the remainder of the article seems to be that everyone on eGullet or anyone who is a food enthusiast and/or has a food blog is a glutton, obsessed and unhealthy. I am obsessed about food, to be sure. I don't come to eGullet for health advice and don't see a need for forums dedicated to health or wellness. There are plenty of health sites out there. It's great that threads occasionally arise about healthy eating, but I'd hate to see this site and other great foodie places turn into Cooking Light. I have no doubt that obesity is a nationwide issue. But I don't come here looking for a resolution to that problem, and I resent the assumption that because I live to eat, not the other way around, that I'm a glutton or unhealthy. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive. ← maybe I read it backwards, but to me the quote says "set of people who are epicures AND gluttons = Fat Pack". If you're obsessed with food but not a glutton, then I don't think any conclusions are being drawn about you.

of course there is. But if eG were watered down to occupy that middle ground, it would be a bland and characterless site appealing to neither the eat-to-live crowd nor those who live to eat.

no, I really don't think that we do. I'm not disputing that eG "encourages" unhealthy eating -- I think it's clear that gluttony is glorified here (among other things, some positive). I'm saying that the balance you're suggesting is wildly off-topic for eG, a site that celebrates food, its enjoyment, its preparation, its history. I mean...we're obviously not a resource for anyone who eats to live. So, just as it would be off-topic for me to chastise posters for spending lots of money on dinner, or to drag animal rights into _every single thread_, I think the discussion of health and nutrition is better left to a more suitable venue. certainly one can be interested in food AND be conscious of its health consequences. But such a person could read eG AND nutrition AND exercise sites, no? Don't you think that eG members who are interested in health issues _already_ read sites related to that subject?

thanks for the pics and writeup canucklehead. I'd heard about this place but was frankly quite leery based on the review (hyperbole) I read. It's good to have that confirmed but also nice to know that it isn't watered-down chop suey being declared as "the best in etc.".

you're right, of course, and I should have specified that I'm baffled at the insecurity displayed by individuals, not by the scene at large.

I'm still baffled by the idea that a "foreign" chef being involved in a Vancouver restaurant is somehow insulting. It smacks of some kind of insecurity about the quality of the Van scene (I think this observation was made upthread): "no no, we can't let *New York* competition in! He might upstage us!". It's inexplicable to me precisely because I think Vancouver CAN compete at that level -- that is, Vancouver's dining scene is world-class. am I being naive or optimistic in thinking that Chef Boulud can bring something to Vancouver without completely erasing (or even trying to) all local history and tradition? I see the change as being symbiotic, not as some kind of hostile invasion.

(from the Globe article): for me that was the take-away quote of the article. From that alone I feel like he "gets" what Vancouver is about.

alright . I'm guilty too of overdiscussing what was probably a minor comment in the first place. I too hope that Chef Boulud's involvement brings good things to Lumiere and to the Van scene at large.

just...wow. If a restaurant were to fail in Vancouver, you would blame the city/diners? It's not up to the chef and the management to position a restaurant effectively for a given market? the Vancouver dining scene has much to be proud of. Even if "world-class classical French" turns out to be a dimension in which Van doesn't excel, I don't think it's a condemnation of the scene as a whole. It isn't as if that genre is Vancouver's only food claim to fame or a genre the city in which the city should excel. I should add that I'm not saying that Chef Boulud's involvement is bad (I can't see how it could be). I just think it's odd to consider a hypothetical restaurant failure as being a failure of the city.

I'm confused by this comment. Why should Vancouver or its restaurant scene be embarassed if a hypothetical Lumiere-under-Boulud closes within a few years? The scene at large certainly isn't responsible for the menu or business decisions that Boulud / the Sidoos will make. I'm probably missing some subtext...too early in the morning.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on Kintaro when you get a chance to go back. Hopefully my recent visit was just an off day for them, but I was disappointed compared to a past trip.

ah, so that's the story! Thanks estufarian. I'd avoid downtown Chinese altogether then (except Lai Wah Heen) and just go to Richmond Hill.

I don't really do "reviews" , but I was there last week during my Van visit and I liked it. Struck me as being very ingredient-centric -- getting out of the way and letting 1 or 2 star products shine in each dish. Ordered a la carte, would go back for the tasting menu next visit. Sit at the kitchen bar if you do go, especially if you can get the side nearest the pass. pics and a few more thoughts in my Fuel Flickr set.

um. http://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2008/02/ra...dumpling_house/ I didn't follow this story so I don't know what the conclusion was. Word of mouth is that they were shut down and they reopened. I don't really care for Gold Stone and Lee Garden. Nothing special going on there. fmed, will you be driving or taking the TTC around? That will affect recs.

that's an excellent comparison of Susur to Lumiere. My Lumiere meal last trip was fine but didn't really excite me enough to go back this time. as an aside, Susur is much less structured than Lumiere, which seems to follow a more classical European flow (cheese course, multiple desserts). Lumiere probably gets a slight edge in service. I do remember being surprised by the price at Lumiere, but I can understand it since they're trying to operate on a different overall level (that's not some kind of hidden comment, I really do just mean their target is a higher level of presentation/service/ambience/etc.).

again the Toronto board might have better advice. I rarely see places that stray far from standard Cantonese. I would say that the biggest departure is found in Northern stuff (buns/dumplings). If you're into that, I've heard good things about Mother's Dumplings downtown but haven't been. (Not to be confused with the dumpling place near that which was recently shut down for a rat infestation if you come across that story.) in general though, there mostly aren't good restaurants to be found in downtown Chinatown anymore. Richmond Hill is a much better bet if you can make it out there. oh and speaking as someone who hates Asian fusion, Susur is one of my favourite Toronto restaurants. I don't really think of it as fusion...maybe more like French with a different palette of ingredients. But it does seem to be a love/hate kind of place.

dim sum, Pearl Harbourfront and Ambassador (in Richmond Hill -- non-transit-accessible suburb) are comparable to Kirin/Gingeri in price and quality. But just as I don't recommend that visitors from Toronto to Van go for dim sum, I don't think it's worth going to any of ours either while you're here. Bonus points for the lake+island airport view at Pearl Harbourfront, but then again it's no mountains-and-ocean. both of those are good for Cantonese-dinner as well. Lai Wah Heen in the Metropolitan Hotel downtown is very good high-end dim sum. It's very non-traditional but I wouldn't go so far as to call it fusion. It's the only place I can think of that would be sufficiently different from what you can get in Van. I think canucklehead can comment further as I believe he visited on a previous trip. if by Cantonese-HK you mean like HK cafe-style stuff (baked x on rice/spaghetti, HK style milk tea, etc.) then there are a few in Markham/Scarborough (transit-accessible suburbs) but I'm no expert. Toronto forum can help there. there isn't really other regional Chinese in Toronto. You might find some Chiu Chow- / Sichuan- / Taiwanese- themed places but most will still be Cantonese-based. A notable exception is Ba Shu Ren Jia (Toronto Life's site has the info for the Scarborough one; there's one in Mississauaga too), which does excellent Sichuan. feel free to PM me if you need more specific directions on getting around or recs. But I'm not sure how much mileage you'll get out of eating Chinese in Toronto if you're from Van. EDIT: don't confuse Pearl Harbourfront with Pink Pearl or, heaven forbid, Bright Pearl.

there really isn't any in that neighbourhood. Closest in that area/price range is Pearl Harbourfront, Queen's Quay and York-ish.

haven't tried Benkei, but Motomachi is way better than Kintaro now.

I'm heading back to Toronto tomorrow morning and I think I've done the last of my Van eating. My Flickr collection is here and covers just about everything I ate while out here. as always, recs in this thread were helpful and were all appreciated, even if I didn't get out to yours (I probably had 3-4 weeks' worth of meals recommended to me). canucklehead, yours in particular pretty much spot-on the whole way o_O. hands-down best of trip was Rare. Out of this world, and considering that I went in with elevated expectations (they were the best meal of my 2007 trip too)...just wow. I was debating going again tonight. excellent: Kingyo (surprisingly enjoyable to hole up at the bar and eat/drink myself into a stupor), Motomachi Shokudo (made up for my Kintaro disappointment (see below) and then some), Metro Hop (really really good fried chicken), Go Fish (astoundingly good seafood, worth the lineup and having to eat in the cold). I did have a few disappointments: Kintaro, whose noodles weren't as good as last time. And since that was the only thing elevating mediocre broth/toppings...just go to Motomachi instead. Metro was too noisy and the food wasn't really that interesting. And Gingeri was fine but no better than good Toronto dim sum. Van people seem to be proud of local dim sum, and I guess with good reason, but I think it's only in relation to cities that don't have dim sum at all. I went to Kirin last year and Gingeri this year expecting to be blown away but didn't see the big deal in either case. To visitors from Toronto I'd recommend not "spending" any Van meals on dim sum. in addition to what you can see in the Flickr collection, there were a few other meals -- some random sushi places (nothing special), a small Taiwanese place in Richmond (nice to see a non-Cantonese menu), and Hapa Izakaya (overpriced, noisy, and even the feature for which they're known isn't worth going for). I also went back to Kingyo tonight for one last hurrah. anyway, the Flickr collection has more detailed thoughts on each place, but I'd be happy to elaborate here or to provide advice to future visitors.