brody

Well, unfortunately I got a major setback as I was getting ready to leave work and start building this glorious meat locker. My pig farmer, who I mysteriously hadn't heard from since Thursday...is in Italy for the week. Thus, meat locker is post-poned until I can source another quailty pig that won't set me back a substantial about of cash. Anyone have recommendations for a pig farmer within 1.5hrs of DC? Definitely still going through with it though, but I won't get to see the fruits of my labors immediately. I will, however, have more time to get this right and consider ways to integrate a dual-use design: meat storage/refrigeration and meat aging. Not at the same time, of course. It will still get built in the next week or two..and I'll be taking pictures for sure, and hopefully reporting back on it's success (or not). f = A * D / R where f is going to be the heat flow through the insulation in Btu/hr, A is the surface area of the insulation in square ft, D is the temperature difference in degrees F, and R is the R value in English units (U.S. standard, ft^2 F hr / Btu). To maintain steady-state (i.e. assuming your chamber and everything in it is already at 35 deg F, your "cooling unit" will need to be capable of removing at least this much heat from the chamber. Of course, if your cooling unit is just a tray of ice, it can't remove any heat from the chamber, and then calculation needs to take into account the thermal mass of the ice, and calculate how long it will take to melt. I will think on that for a while... I'm not sure quite how to proceed. ← Actually, the tray of ice will remove heat from the chamber in the sense of absorbing it. As long as the ice is much colder than the basement, you'll get some chilling going on, and with enough ice - if you start out with very cold ice - you should be able to drop the chamber temperature and keep it there. Let's see... figure the 4 sides and the ceiling of the chamber to get the area. Use that in Chris' formula to get the heat flow. The specific heat of ice at these ranges is just under 0.5 btu/lb/degF (ranging from 0.471 at 0*F to 0.504 at 32*F). As that ice changes to water it's going to soak up a great deal of heat - haven't laid my hands on that number yet - and then the liquid water has a specific heat of around 1 btu/lb/deg. It won't want to warm up quickly, but given enough time, of course it will. If I'm approaching this correctly, you can use Chris' formula to figure how much heat needs to be absorbed to get the temperature you want and work that to how many pounds of ice you need to maintain that temperature. This assumes a well-chilled pig to start with. It seems to me that you'd want a great deal of ice (4 times as much as calculated? 5?) just to save yourself from having to open that chamber and let more heat in. 80*F in the basement? Ye cats, your climate is different than ours! Hmm. What about putting dry ice in the chamber? Would that affect the curing? You'd for sure have to vent the chamber well (and add a pile of heat) before going in, so you don't asphyxiate. Hmm. ← Chris and Smithy, with the formula what exactly is f again? Is this my BTU/heat loss through the insulation? Thus, to maintain an internal temp of 35 F, when my f value is 65, I would need a cooling solution that removed 65 BTU of heat every hour?

What is your highest expected ambient temperature? The difference between that and the desired locker temperature is the critical factor here. The amount of time spent at that temp is important, too, but I think we can do a back-of-the-envelope estimate based just on temperature. ← Chris, based on the 10-day forecast, and my basement averaging about 5 degrees cooler, I'd expect my ambient temperature to be 80 F. It will probably hover near this temp for 6 hours. This will be on Friday, and the subsequent days will be 3-5 degrees cooler. What's the formula? Been running a bit behind schedule this weekend with a number of other chores, but I have the salvaged lumber and drywall ready to be cut downstairs. Made some adjustments to the dimensions, and am instead going for a 2.5 ft x 2.5 ft x 6 ft space. Just enough space, I hope, to contain the pig carcass and still allow airflow. This should also make it easier to cool. Small will also make it movable to other areas of the basement should I try repurposing it down the line.

Anyone have thoughts as to an appropriate R-value for meat locker? I'm sure the higher the better, but at what point might I see dimenishing returns?

Inventive, but maybe not a good idea! Ever seen the stickers on new fridges about letting them stand for a while after delivery before connecting/running them? Its so the refrigerant fluid can settle after the jostling of transport - if you get liquid (rather than gas) into the compressor, it just stops working, likely permanently. AND when a fridge starts, it can briefly draw quite a large surge current, so for a full-size fridge, you'd probably need quite a sturdy inverter... Better to pack the beast in ice in an old bathtub (or disfunctional chest freezer) for transport I'd suggest. To get fancy, you could rig up a facility to drain off the meltwater at occasional stops... ← It was definitely a bit of a crazy idea! I'll be going with the ice though. Going to see if Home Depot has any pig size storage bins today. Got to love that picture! Luckily The Wife's into the whole thing and doesn't see any problem with a pig in the bathtub either!

That's about what I was thinking. Could you estimate how much ice you used? "An admirably obsessive project..." I like that turn of phrase, enough to keep it for later use. Can you lay your hands on a lot of large containers like milk jugs, and freeze water in them? Or buy a bunch of gallon jugs of distilled water and freeze them? Then you'll have your ice covered, so to speak. I don't know how much drippage from a drip tray. I'll bet a largish Rubbermaid tub would hold what you need. As for cooling the pig quickly: I wonder whether you should pack it in ice for transport. That would cool it quickly. Then, if you still wanted to pursue this admirably obsessive project, you could unpack it from the ice when you arrived and hang it. The comments above aren't intended to derail the very good commentary on how well this arrangement will work, by the way. There are a number of good points about the optimum temperature range for a particular refrigeration system, what exactly you should be doing with the meat, and so on. I'll be interested in reading along to see what you do and how it works. Great topic! ← Derail? Luckily I haven't taken it that way at all! I hope I haven't conveyed otherwise! Honestly, there's still a very good chance that I might brine the pig, simply because of time. I am a bit obsessed with the idea of the meat locker, and I don't want to ruin the pig because of it! I've got to thank all the input so far for making sure I've got my goal correct and all my ducks lining up correctly. Great suggestion with the frozen containers of water. I could easily hang those from hooks along the ceiling to go along with Dougal suggestions. No clean up, no waste, no humidity! Here's another question to pose, which I regret not knowing the answer of yet (haven't gotten an email back from the farmer on it yet). How big is a 150lb pig? Roughly how wide and how tall will it be when suspended?

Sorry about misquoting you before, but I do agree with you in that I couldn't properly cure and refrigerate at the same time. The idea I'm thinking of is more along the lines of when I need to refrigerate and use it as a meat locker, I can adjust the temp and humidity in a way to achieve that. Any products in there would only be in there fro that purpose. For curing, I'd adjust it, and only have items in there needing to be cured. I definitely don't think I could multitask it simultaneously. Man, thanks for that! I've been looking for the thread for ages!! Its the one that first got me interested in doing a pig back in '05! That's interesting, and contrary to what I've been thinking. Even called up one of the few decent butchers in DC and asked, and they said to definitely hang. My personal rational for wanting to hang is based on Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's brief discussion in "The River Cottage Meat Book" and Howard McGee (which I unfortunately loaned out about a year ago..). I can't say I have a strong grasp of the changes that are occurring in the meat when being hung or brined, and how they differ beyond brine's movement of salt and flavor via osmosis. I'm going to have to dig into this a bit more. Ah heck, but that would be too easy and sensible! I definitely could have the farm send it to their local Mennonite/USDA processing facility, which would be just fine and only cost $40 plus $10-15 or so per day of hanging. But I'm really interested in seeing this through all the way. I see what you mean Dougal. I reckon I can rig up something like that using a spare drying vent. If humidity does become an issue, I have a dehumidifer I can put to use. Raw/Cooked, you and Dougal both mentioned an aspect I'm trying to deal with as well. I'm anticipating a solution with a tarp and lots of ice. I've also contemplated grabbing an old, cheap fridge off Craigslist, strapping it upright into the back of my truck, and powering it with a DC-AC inverter while transporting. Although I can imagine the pig not looking so pretty once rigor sets in, even after it gets tied up.

Wow! Thanks for the quick replies! Deltadoc, I'll delve into the Maryland and Virginia Ag Exenstion programs. A quick search of the UMD site seems like it might be tricky to find the right info. Maybe I'll try Vermont's program, as I know they've come up in some of my previous, unrelated research and have been very informative. Smithy, I'll probably use one basement wall for the meat locker. A corner is not feasible, unfortunately. And while I do have windows that could act as vents, I won't be able to mount the A/C in it. Draining the condensate into my sump will be easy, and thanks for point that out! You're also right in that I'm aiming for ~35F. I'd come across very brief discussions of using window A/C's to achieve this on some BBQ forums, as well as getting fancy and using the guts of an old refrigerator. If the A/C doesn't cool the space down enough, Dougal hit upon a really great idea - I'll put blocks of ice in there as needed. In order to maintain a dry environment, I imagine I should keep the ice covered in some manner. Luckily, I've salvaged two A/C's that I am not attached to, so I won't shed too many tears if I ruin one. I'll indeed use some old computer fans to circulate the air. Dougal, what to you mean by combining the fans with the pipe? Create a sort of convection cycle? To help keep the cool air in, I'll be hanging a plastic tarp on the inside of the doorway. Putting a thermometer in there is a good idea too. I don't have on, but might be able to borrow one. I do have a thermometer function on my watch - maybe I'll just clasp it around one of the pig's ankles.. Drip tray...check. Any idea as to how much moisture the pig will drip out? I've read that I could see up to 20% reduction from the initial hang weight.. Dave the Cook: I actually have been considering brining, but in addition to the hanging. Only problem is that I doubt a 24 hour brine period would penetrate the meat thoroughly. But you bring up a very valid and important question. Can I achieve results (more tender, less moist) by brining a freshly killed animal as I would by hanging? Any thoughts on what the humidity of the meat locker should be? I think Paul Bertolli address that issue in "Cooking By Hand", but I don't have it in front of me at the moment. Thanks everyone!! Brody.

Hi folks, I'm been following many of the threads on eGullet for two years now, and I'm happy to finally start participating in the dialogue here. I'm in the process of planning a last minute pig roast (to be held 8 days from now). This is also my first pig roast, so I'm diving in and feeling a little crazy right now. I've picked up tons of good advice from eGullet thus far, especially the eGCI pit-roasting course. However, there are two areas that I I have unaswered questions in, and I'll address the first in this thread.. A meat locker. On Monday, I'm working with a local farmer to slaughter a Berkshire piggy, which will then be brought back to my basement to age until Friday (4 days). Because of the seasonal warmth and humidity (I'm in Washington, DC), I'll need to build a simple, inexpensive meat locker this weekend. Has anyone else built one? I plan on using spare 2x3" studs, and paneling the interior with 1/2" drywall. The outside will be wrapped with 2-3 layers of fiberglass batt insulation (r26-r39), and then covered in plastic sheeting. It will be cooled by a window air-conditioning unit, and I'll bypass the thermostat with a refrigerator temperature controller (which I'm been using on a mini-refrigerator for cheese aging). I'll use the basement's concrete floor. Basic measurements on the inside will be 4 ft wide, 4 ft deep, and 6 ft tall. Will this suffice for keeping a 140lb pig for a few days? How does one actually hang the carcass? Is there anything I'm overlooking? I'll probably use the meat locker off and on post pig-roast, mainly for charcuterie. Thank you in advance for your help! Brody.