mbanu

If you ask here, you'll get a lot of "religion". :P Bitters acolytes have a pretty firm grip of this board. They'll want to convince you that bitters go good in everything from 40-year-old scotch to oatmeal. (well... maybe in oatmeal... :P) Since Angostura are the main bitters I have any experience with, here's my advice on them. Angostura bitters are actually more spicy than bitter. :) They're good for a couple of things: Giving unaged or underaged liquor an "aged" color and flavor. Light rum + bitters = passable gold rum substitute. ;) Complimenting intentionally bittersweet flavors. Not sure why, but the spiciness of the Angostura really blends well with bittersweet flavors like tonic water, triple sec, or Campari. Balancing out accidental bitter flavors. If a gin or whiskeymaker tries to collect too much of the tail end of a distillation run, this can sometimes cause bitter off flavors to enter the spirit. If a tequilamaker uses underaged agave, it can sometimes cause bitter off flavors to enter a spirit. Sometimes it's just a case of an aged spirit not being aged properly. But especially when you work with cheap spirits, bitters can be a lifesaver. The careful application of bitters and sugar has the potential to turn even the most awful rotgut into something drinkable, assuming that it's main flaw is bitter off flavors. :) If it's the gut-heaving smell, or the brain-frying proof, or some other issue, you might have to also try some other things. For instance I can't seem to add enough bitters and sugar to fix Georgia Moon; it keeps me humble in my opinion of my mixology skills. :P

In the process of trying to find out more about the state of vermouth outside the US, I was overwhelmed to find brand after brand of vermouth that I had simply never heard of; instead of the traditional Martini & Rossi/Noilly Pratt/Cinzano trinity, people were mentioning names like Chambéry, Gancia, Garrone and Gotano. Biggest problem is that I haven't the slightest clue which are generic knockoffs too cheap to bother importing, and which are genuine quality products that just aren't seen very much on US shores. Anyone able to help a poor fellow out? :(

Went into a little hole in the wall liquor store and found some unusual stuff gathering dust in the corners. Something in particular was several bottles of Maker's Mark VIP: Maker's Mark VIP, Click For Link Is this actually a special bottling, or is it just the same stuff in a more decorative bottle for the holidays? And on an unrelated note, does anyone speak German? Found this website on what appear to be various Maker's Mark special releases, including what appears to be vintage bottled Maker's Mark, and would be keen on elaboration. :) Many thanks in advance! Admin: Edited by a moderator to conform with copyright and image linking policies.

Article here. ← Anyone tried Gosling's Gold Rum? What's the verdict?

At a recent summer barbeque I had the pleasure of enjoying a watermelon infused with Beaujolais. This got me curious. How old is this dish? Are the vodka-spiked watermelons one sees at frat parties in the South a decendant of this dish, or is it simply a contemporary variation?

I've noticed that my experience with tasting Georgia Moon (*shudder*) has helped me identify certain faults which can crop up in better quality bourbons. It seems as though it could work with all spirits, assuming that one had a quality version to begin from as a basepoint, to avoid mistaking the cheap stuff for being good. Am I on the right track, or am I simply being a masochist?

Equal part cocktails are convenient, but you can't just throw equal parts of anything together without knowing how they fit and still consistently get a good cocktail. For instance the corpse reviver is a well balanced drink, but if you switched out the cointreau for lower proof triple sec, the balance would be off and you'd have to reformulate (maybe 3:2:1 gin:triplesec/lillet:lemon juice if it's not too dry, or switch out the lemon for lime if it is, see if that helps); and a lot of times switching seemingly little things when you don't know what you're doing can be the start of screwy drinks. Like some people make Black Russians with a splash of cola; the original reason for this (I suspect) is because Kahlua is a slightly higher proof than what would be optimal for a 1 to 1 vodka/Kahlua ratio, and adding a 1/2 ounce of cola to the mix seemed like a better choice then shaking extra long and watering it down more, or making your Black Russians extra stiff. But switch it to a 1:1:1 ratio for streamlining's sake and the balance is out of whack again unless you're using stronger vodka. Lotsa variables to take into account. :)

If only things were that simple. :P Maybe then my poultry seasoning infused vodka would have been tastier.

Yes. This is different from cookbooks where the general rule is to list ingredients in order of use. Of course, cocktail recipes are seldom as involved as food recipes. ← An exception to this is in layered drinks, where traditionally ingredients were listed by gravity to make for easier layering.

Actually this story goes back to the memoirs of a Captain Dudley Bradstreet, who among other things, was an 18th century gin bootlegger. At the time Britain was going through a series of "Gin Acts" aimed at fighting the rising alcoholism and other problems stemming from too much cheap gin. He rented out a room off of Blue Anchor Alley in London and used the cat sign in the window as a way of serving gin on the sly.

Many wine drinkers seem to be very conservative in their wine drinking. Many drinkers accustomed to using stemmed glasses dislike using anything else, for no other obvious reason than that it is untraditional. For instance the screw cap was invented, what, in the 20s? 30s? And only now is it beginning to make headway on young wines. Give non-stemmed glasses another 40 years, and maybe they'll be received more favorably. :)

My main beers of choice are a couple of local brews by the Palmetto Brewing Company in Charleston, SC. Palmetto IPA in the summer and Palmetto Porter the rest of the year. It's tasty. cheapish, fresh, and local (for me at least). :)

Likewise, I would be happy if the cocktail bars around where I live wouldn't commit Martini sins by mixing pleasant gin with rotgut vermouth. ← If I found a bar, *any* bar in this area that carried Vya or Carpano vermouth, it would be my bar of choice. Sadly, around here, you're lucky to find a bar that carries Rose's instead of Finest Call so you can settle for a decent Gimlet, nevermind fresh juices or good vermouths.

Well take bars like Milk & Honey in New York, that thrive on secrecy and exclusivity, as though they were modern-day speakeasies. Or art-deco bars like the Flatiron Lounge in New York, that plaster their websites with vintage photos and fill their bars with vintage jazz, or the Orbit Room in San Fransisco, with it's cone tables and Wurlitzer jukebox lookalike. A fascination with Prohibition themes, but making fantastic cocktails. Maybe I'm using the wrong term for it, but that's what I mean by "Prohibition Revival".

Fair enough. I suppose "shrunk" is a better word than "killed off". :) Without a big inflow of money and people willing to spend it on cocktail "research", the field sorta stagnates, I think. I've been looking into it more and it's really a weird sorta situation. Glamorizing Prohibition drinking seems to have started shortly after Repeal (people have short memories, huh? :P) generally in books and movies and radio shows as a way to get away from the harsher realities most people faced during the Great Depression. After all, I suppose if you can't afford to go out to a swanky bar and drink cocktails, watching it on a movie screen while nursing your cheap beer is a decent substitute. :) Modern "Prohibition revival" bars I guess draw most of their energy from those old movies and books, and from innovations that came out of the 1920s expatriate scene, sort of a glamourization of a glamourization.

Hmm. I'd thought that the Great Depression sorta killed off American cocktail culture when everyone's spending money evaporated? It mostly killed off the expatriate scene in England and France, at least.

Nope, I meant Prohibition. Generally this Prohibition preoccupation translates into an unusually keen focus on gin, art deco, and exclusivity, and a glamourizing of things which weren't quite so glamourous while they were actually happening. Not that I'm putting it down or anything, I'm just curious why it's such a popular theme? Cdh's reply about it being the cloak and dagger atmosphere being alluring is a good point, I'm just sorta surprised because it seems ironic that some of the best drinks being made nowadays are being made in bars that glamourize one of the worst eras for getting anything drinkable.

I've noticed that it seems like a lot of good bars making good drinks are sorta enamoured with the whole Prohibition theme. Why is that??? Is this sort of a "past as it should have been" trend kinda like how Tiki bars made people think that if they ever visited the tropics, the natives would be sipping on maitais and flaming zombies instead of cheap beer and rotgut rum? I mean if you've ever actually tasted Prohibition cocktails (as opposed to, say, cocktails invented in France or England to satisfy American expatriates), you'll not be surprised at the tears of joy in people's eyes when Prohibition was repealed. The long drinks aren't so bad, but the short drinks... You can even do an experiment for yourself. Buy one of those big 1.75L jugs of gin. Cheap gin. Nothing of a higher quality then perhaps Gilbey's at most. McCormicks, Aristocrat, or worse would be better. Then think of cocktails (short ones, not long drinks like Tom Collinses and Gin and Ginger ales) to make out of it with no other alcoholic ingredients, other than a dash here or a dash there, and no fresh ingredients, unless they're local or in small quantities. It helps especially if you normally drink beer instead of cocktails, and if you devote yourself to not drinking any other alcoholic drinks until the bottle of cheap gin is finished. Here, I'll even help you get started: The Orange Blossom 2 ounces gin 1 ounce orange juice dash of orangeflower water Maybe it's the right season and real oranges aren't too expensive to ship up from Florida. Or maybe you're settling for canned juice. You mix it hopefully, on the rocks. Underwhelming and vaguely unpleasant. You add a dash of orangeflower water, hoping the smell will help distract you from the taste. No luck. You pour the whole mess in a shaker and shake vigourously, hoping that maybe when it's cold it won't be so bad, then add another dash of orangeflower water for the smell. If you're using canned maybe you give in and add an extra can or two to make a Gin and Juice, and sip on it discontentedly, wishing for a beer. :)

I hadn't thought of adding the dashes afterwards to enhance the smell, I usually would add the dash in before shaking or stirring. Interesting.

I guess it's in the eye of the beholder (tongue of the taster?). My family has been making goose braised in orange juice and gin longer than I've been alive. To my taste, gin and orange go together like... well, gin and orange. I think a more perfect match is hard to find. There are about a zillion classic cocktails that include gin and either tciple sec or orange curacao. If I'm not mistaken, orange peel is a fairly standard botanical used in gin formulae. Fair enough, I will admit that juniper tends to play better with orange peel than orange juice. I didn't bring up the subject trying to get people up in arms, I'd honestly thought juniper was a challenging flavor to mix with, and was looking for advice. I hadn't realized how dear a spirit gin was in the hearts of this board's members. If I am in fact mistaken, and gin is indeed the most easily mixed of spirits, and the reason why me and my friends enjoy gin and lillet more than, say, gin and cream is simply because of personal preference and not because gin's characteristics make it more suitable for mixing with one by itself than the other, then so be it, I apologize. Perhaps this is in fact a matter of me not being quite sophisticated enough to enjoy gin's "subtle flavors" in more than a limited number of circumstances. But I appreciate the feedback.

A well balanced cocktail does indeed reflect the "dash" of whatever. What about the Sazerac? Where would it be without the teasing flavor of a bit of absinthe? If the drink is balanced, even the subtlest amount of a special ingredient provides much more than a sense of personalization. IMHO. ← Strongly flavored spirits such as bitters, pastis, or single malt scotch do indeed add flavor. But for every drink you find using a dash of something strong, you find one using a dash of something relatively mild, usually just for color adjustment, like curacao or grenadine.

Wasn't meaning to imply that gin was simply a vodka substitute, merely that the reason that it was so popular had to do with the fact that it could be used in the same manner as vodka (to dilute existing flavors without adding many strong flavors of its own) with moderate success. Just scrolling down the list I found 1,2,3,4,5. Granted as far as the Pegu club goes, I'm going to have to order up some orange bitters and see for myself, but something one might want to try as well is taking a recipe that calls for "gin + orange bitters" and substituting orange vodka instead. :) Looking at the cocktailDB again, I noticed a few things as well. For instance, many of the recipes are simply slight variations of the martini or some other popular and tasty gin drink created to give people their own special drinks. (ie a clever form of marketing and branding). The dash of kummel here or the dash of curacao or grenadine there doesn't really do much to effect the flavor profile of the drink; they were just created because they provide a sense of personalization and customization that people enjoy when they go to a bar. It's much more satisfying to go to a bar and order "my" drink instead of "a" drink.

I don't see what you're saying here, except that you don't care for juniper. That's fine, of course. But that makes it hard for to recommend anything. cocktailDB, a database of cocktails from the golden age, lists 1381 gin cocktails. This compares to 531 aged brandy recipes, 595 bourbon and rye recipes, 497 rum recipes and 59 tequilla recipes. This, to my mind, speaks loudly about the mixability of gin. ← I do enjoy juniper, but only certain combinations really seem to succeed with a capital S as opposed to simply being drinkable. The problem is I don't understand quite what it is about those successful drinks that make them so successful. That's why I was asking for juniper advice. As to CocktailDB, I suspect the reason there were so many golden age gin cocktails is because vodka wasn't really popularized until well after the golden age was dead and gone. Gin does an admirable job being a vodka substitute if you can cancel out the juniper flavors.

Well, gin seems to play especially well with sour and quinine flavors, and spicy aromatics like mint & ginger. That's why gn works with tonic, Campari, lemon and lime juice, Lillet, ginger ale, Chartreuse and certain herbal infusions. But take things like the Pegu club down there; really the only reason why it appears to work to me is because the strength of the bitters overwhelm the natural flavor of the gin, and the lime juice complements what's left and helps it marry with the orange flavors. But I'm not sure if the juniper actually adds anything desirable to the game. Juniper and orange don't seem to quite see eye to eye with eachother. In all the gin and orange-something based cocktails I've had, the only ones that have been any good have been ones that had peacemaker ingredients to help smooth out the conflicting flavors. Really this seems to go for most non sour fruit flavor combinations i've tried. It also doesn't seem to do so hot with nutty flavors like sherry or amaretto or oaky flavors like the ones you get from bourbon, brandy or rum, although it does seem to play well with chocolate for some reason. I mean, it just seems to me like there are few cocktails out there that require gin that another spirit couldn't do a better job at, simply because juniper is such a particular flavor. Try a Suffering Bastard using gin, and then try making it substituting bourbon instead. Try making a Chelsea Hotel with gin, then try switching it out for brandy and making a Sidecar instead. Make a Gin & It, then try substituting brandy for a Metropolitan or whiskey for a Manhattan instead. Make a Red Snapper with gin, then try switching it out for vodka and make a Bloody Mary instead. Generally there is a marked improvement. Gin & Lillet, gin & tonic, and dry martinis made with good vermouth seem to be a few where it holds strong, but the ingredients with which gin not only plays well but shines above the rest seem particularly challenging for me to find. This is why I asked for advice on pairing other flavors with juniper, and how i might tell which combinations have the most potential, and which would need more work.

Although I've often heard the quote that "gin is the backbone of cocktail culture" I've also noticed that it's really one of the most difficult spirits to mix with. Just like juniper is difficult to pair in cooking, it's difficult to pair in drinking. Gin doesn't play well with other spirits like bourbon or brandy or rum. Really there are few recipes where gin is required that vodka doesn't seem to do a better job. Does anyone have any advice when it comes to creating gin cocktails, and figuring out which ones will work and which ones won't? For instance, gin & lillet works together perfectly; gin and orange juice not so well. Vodka and orange juice works much better; but vodka & lillet really isn't as refreshing. What sort of flavors does juniper go good with???