Kikujiro

I've been to Moro a couple of times this year. The first I was blown away by the experience, feeling the freshness, ingredients, preparation etc. were like the River Cafe on a good day without its prices. The second time I was disappointed, but probably because my memories were so extreme. It does tend to be filled with exhibitionist celebs. I find the staff unfailingly helpful and the wine list very good value. I will certainly go back again. Downstairs at Providores (actually the same menu is served upstairs from a later time), as Jon says, is one of the best places for w/e brunch. The tapa room food is pleasant but it can get rather smokey. If, like me, you don't smoke, it's not allowed in the more formal upstairs, where on my one visit I had some tremendous brill that was a real testament to successful fusion. 3 courses circa £35 for food from what I remember.

Sometimes, if I'm cooking just for myself, I enjoy it very much. But living where I do that's an intermittent event. I think I like cooking for people but the truth is I buy way too much food, spend far too long cooking -- including after the guests are arrived -- and get stressed as hell. The good thing is I've worked out that by making them wait this long, and providing plenty of wine in the interim, they are both starving and drunk when the food finally reaches their mouths and as a direct consequence they think it's fantastic.

Can I take the fifth on that? χειρωνακτικός

I think I've made sense of this. There are (at least) two entries for 'mechanical'. The one I quoted I got to by doing an advanced search for 'artisanal'. It's labelled 'draft entry Dec. 2001'. The one you quote comes up when doing a straight search on 'mechanical' and is from the 1989 2nd ed. You can switch between the two by clicking the 'earlier' / 'later' button at the top right.

Odd. It's not in the OED online. Nor it is. Or rather, it occurs once in the OED online, glossing 'mechanical': So it's a good enough word to help define another word, but it doesn't itself exist. You can't trust anything these days, not even the OED.

Foliage and the Landmark are both doing it, at least.

If it existed you are, of course, correct that it would be "artisanal", but no such word is found in the OED. Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate (American English) Dictionary does list it, but I have no access to the full version so I don’t know when the word was first coined. I find it somewhat awkward but it does serve a purpose. It's in the shorter two-volume OED above my desk: 'of or pertaining to artisans, involving manual skill'. You need any tips on looking words up, you come to me

I tried this this evening: lemon juice, rum, vanilla. The raw fruit were ridiculously sweet (can't say I liked the raw taste but there was nothing obviously bad about it) so I skipped the sugar. In the oven for 45 mins. The result had an appealing aroma but the one mouthful I took exited in record time. Something about these fruit did not take well to being baked. It was like being attacked by some kind of angry furry thing. The effect is taking a few minutes to die down. I'm going to have a yoghurt instead.

Yikes.

I bought some of these in the market today. Never tried them before. I was considering attempting to bake them (a little vanilla, sugar, rum). Will this work or am I being a fool? (edit: I meant never tried, not never seen)

PaT was on my list of possibles when I recently asked for dining advice and got a rare unanimous eGullet response (Capital). Simon, Cabrales and Andy between them ranged from mildly unenthusiastic to actively negative.

We could always apply some kind of collaborative filtering engine to these threads ...

With all due disrespect, the Guardian/Obs has one of the best newspaper websites in the, um, world. On the other hand, you misread Scott's post As for the plug in question, it's dated 25 Nov 01 -- just shy of a year ago.

So, when's the First Free eGullet Foliage Luncheon?

Now you're talking. I admit to some perverse glee re. the Foster encroachment, particularly given the tendency of supporters to refer to the market as 'Spitz'. But Sunday is now cheesecake day. On the topic of market destruction, what's the latest with Borough? It now seems to be roughly as popular as Madame Tussauds, so I find it hard to believe it won't make it, but am I being na0Š7ve?

It's not an unreasonable thing to ask. But legislation isn't designed around what's reasonable, it's designed around what's realistic As for being empowered by not caring how you're perceived: you forget which nation this legislation pertains to

I've never been either, but for me it's slightly closer than Borough, so the question is not is it better, but will it on occasion do instead?

Cabrales: I disagree . There is a tremendous scale of 'expensive' restaurants. For many people Mezzo would constitute an expensive restaurant. While people like you could probably gauge the cost of a meal at Pétrus versus Mezzo without inspecting the menu, I don't think it's reasonable to expect everybody to have that level of knowledge. Nor would one necessarily guess the relative expense of eating at, say, the River Café from looking at "the decor ... the way in which the dining room team members are dressed, the lighting, the 'look' of the other diners (to the extent visible initially) and the neighborhood in which the restaurant is located." Furthermore, I expect the vast majority of people (those whom the law is designed to protect) certainly care at some point about the pricing levels, and I don't think it's entirely fair to expect all diners to do advance research or make anonymous phone calls. Some -- most -- people do like to walk in on the spur of the moment. Of course, people considering dining at Pétrus probably can't do that, but then they're hardly the focus of the legislation. The vast majority of dining out in this country is not the kind with which eGullet members tend to be concerned (and does not involve a dress code). To be honest, I think your idea of what it's reasonable to expect of restaurant diners -- that they be more or less as knowledgeable as you -- is rather romantic and very unrealistic. As something of a film obsessive, I tend to be aware of the previous work of the cast, director, writer and often producers and DoPs of the films I watch, but I hardly think that should be an entrance requirement at the cinema. Restaurants are paid to provide product and service and in nearly all other such circumstances the purchaser is more or less aware in advance of the amount s/he is committed to paying. And of course, the arrangement also protects restaurateurs from diners who can't afford to eat at their establishments. Apart from feeling it's unnecessary, are you actively against menus being displayed outside restaurants?

Well, that worked. The board has been dead today.

Some interesting notes from the consultation aspect of the document for those of you with more important things to do than read through the whole thing: 1. Reasons that restaurants, unlike bars, have to show menus legible from outside include the consideration that people will spend more in a restaurant (clearly the drafters hadn't anticipated the Sanderson) and it's 'more embarrassing to leave a restaurant, especially after being approached by a member of staff, than to leave a bar'. There's also more diversity across restaurants and greater price/product comparison is expected of consumers before deciding on one. 2. There is some discussion of requiring all charges, including service charges, to be shown inclusively where possible. Noted issues include [a] that consumers may assume they must pay for service, even though they are not happy with it, and that it's harder to make a deduction of an included charge; consumers may feel pressurized into making an additional payment for service [no mention of leaving the credit card slip open]; [c] this would increase likelihood of service charge counting towards waiters' minimum wage. 3. The question of whether the selection of 30 items (5 in each section, etc) on the menu should be required to be 'representative' is raised: one method could be a requirement to list the cheapest and most expensive items within a category (hello white truffle pasta). 4. There is some discussion of requirements to specify items for which prices must be listed, presumably rather like in Italian bars where you can always see the price of a cup of coffee, a glass of water, etc, on a regulated display. Oh yeah: I forgot to mention the enforcement/penalties section. Enforcement is the responsibility of local authorities (is Foliage in Westminster or RBKC?). The penalties are -- on conviction on indictment an unspecified fine; or on summary conviction, a fine not exceeding £5,000. Edit: is it Explorer or eGullet that keeps turning my bracketed c into a copyright symbol?

After the Locatelli truffle controversy and Scottnsam's odd VAT experience at Foliage, I thought a good way of avoiding what I should be doing would be to get Googling on the relevant rules. Turns out that most of the issues are regulated by the Price Marking (Food and Drink on Premises) Order 1979. There was a consultation on this last year (mainly concerned, it seems, with the overpricing of soft drinks) but it looks like so far the order is still where we're at. There's a summary and discussion available here as part of the 2001 consultation, but the salient points seem to be as follows. I'm not a lawyer and this is intended to stimulate eGullet discussion only. It should not be construed in any way as offering legal advice of any kind. Food prices must be indicated. Any additional charges (eg service charges) must be as prominent as the price of the food. (Ha.) Price can be by item or by unit of measurement (Article 3). If there are fewer than 30 items of food and drink available (other than table wine) prices for all must be displayed. If there are more then the prices of at least 30 must be displayed. If the price display (that's menu to you and me) is sub-divided into particular categories (starters, for example) than the price must be shown for each item in a category if there are 5 or less, or at least 5 items in a category if there are more than 5. (A4) (thus it looks like Locatelli were within the law assuming more than 5 primi on the menu?) The price of any table d'hôte menu (though not necessarily the contents) must be given. (A4) Advertised food should be available but if not the indication of availability must be removed after the food becomes unavailable. Rules for wine prices mirror those for food above. Six wines or less, or 2 or less in each category (red, white, rosé according to the government), must have prices displayed. (A5) Prices must be inclusive of value added tax. (A6). (This is the shortest and clearest rule of all and there's a note in the consultation paper that the Government does not intend to change it. 'This requirement conforms with other price marking legislation which also requires that prices be inclusive of all taxes in order to aid pricing transparency for consumers.' So what are Foliage up to?) Price displays should be 'clear and legible and easily read by an attending purchaser'. Additional charges, such as minimum or service charges, must be indicated as prominently as the price of food. (A7) For 'eating areas' (as opposed to 'supply areas', where you pay at the counter and carry your own food to the table), prices must be shown at or near the entrance so that the customer can see them before s/he enters. Thus stand-alone restaurants should show prices visible from the street, restaurants in hotels at the entrance to the dining area. Special provision is made for railway dining cars: lucky Virgin Trains. (A7) Them seem to be the rules. (Edit: '... after the food becomes unavailable' would make more sense, no?)

... and US-based members need only think up 'a themed worldly dinner party' involving the use of least one Near East grain product to do likewise, including flights and accomodation ...

Thanks, everyone. Capital it is ps. Members unwilling to risk Fifteen could always try winning a free meal there

We have a family birthday meal coming up and are trying to choose where to go. Were tempted to try Hartnett's place but the slot we were offered was a bit rushed. Current short list is the Capital, Lindsay House, Pied à Terre, Putney Bridge, and the River Café. Of these I've been to LH twice and enjoyed it very much both times, but I'm aware of other members' criticisms, particularly in the absence of Corrigan. I've been to River Café several times (although not for over a year) and have never visited the others. Locatelli is off the list for personal reasons (not mine, I've never been). Main concerns: food should be good (obviously); one diner is particularly obsessed with good desserts; prefer a relaxed environment (not necessarily informal, but unimposing); hate over-loud restaurants (hello Sugar Club); and would prefer avoiding wine lists where you have to scale the heights to get anything drinkable. Any thoughts on the above list or alternatives would be very helpful. Thankee.

Um, guys, please.