chardan

Hm. Well, I can say that's the most tasty-looking example of... well... a perforated intestine that I've seen lately. heheh. (I'm also happy to see that I'm not the only one this has ever happened to... I know, I know, prick the casings with a fork and all. But, who's got time for that? Yeesh!) Tremors... good suggestion. It's been a few years, and I do love bad movies... heheh. racheld: If you truly insist on subjecting yourself to further horrors, try "http://jesseandmaia.smugmug.com" for further embarassments. (Yes, fine, laugh at my expense as I attempt to learn to cook. <sniff>) :-) _Jesse Williamson ;-};

Oh good, a thread that I can constructively contribute to! Oh, wait... no, that's not a good thing... hehehe. So difficult to choose the worst one... but I will give it a try. Candidate one supposedly is a chicken breast with bacon, fried egg, and asparagus with lemon sauce. However, I believe that michevious gnomes replaced it with a microwaved bacon-covered gopher, put it on somebody's breakfast, carelessly added grease-laden asparagus, and then emptied a jar of undiluted "Chicken Tonite" on top. Or something. Candiate two is clearly a fruitcake slathered in bird crap. The toastlike object in back is in actuality a top-secret piece of satellite reciever technology, involved somehow with the charred hockey puck to make the pickle-like item glow... Ugh.... I guess I could go on for a while, I am not very good at making things look tidy. But let me finish with candidate three: I will quote what I wrote in my gallery: It doesn't look too bad, but it was. This was one of the worst meals I've cooked in a long time. The disaster started because I foolishly decided that I wanted to make steak in pepper sauce out of... "pinwheel steak". That was mistake nubmer one. Man, do I wish I'd just grilled it instead. Instead, I proceeded. Then, I ran out of pepper. Waaay out of pepper. As a result, the sauce is black pepper, Sichuan pepper, cardomom, coriander, and whatever the heck else I could find that was vaguely peppery-- actually, not terribly bad in and of itself. But the "steak" is a dry, burned cinder. I nearly ignored the spinach, and it is overboiled and tasteless. The potato was baked with a little duck fat in the pan... which would have been great if I'd done it right. I didn't. It looks nice, but is really rubber-skinned, dry, and although it tasted okay, it had a pretty nasty texture. The asparagus was the only edible thing on that plate, and it's really greasy. I should have just decided to make something good, instead of something in particular. Oh, the shame... _Jesse Williamson ;-};

Check Amazon.com. Turned up some promising results for me. -J.

Goat can be really darn good! So good that I'm a bit suprised it's not eaten a lot more over here. I would describe the taste as something of a cross between beef, pork loin, and lamb.

Hi worm@work, I get my goat meat from "http://www.goatmeats.com", Copeland Family Farms. I have ordered from the a couple of times now, and have been extremely pleased with the high quality of their goat meat. Let us know what you do with it! :-) _Jesse Williamson ;-};

Genny, Thanks for the kind words! It's nice here in Fall, too-- so I just know that you're going to enjoy your next visit, too. :> -J.

I haven't tried the other brand, but I love keeping several colors of Mae Ploy around (especially the hot and spicy green one).

Oh, the shame... Guilt! Guilt! Guilt! Campbell's Bean with Bacon Soup. Cold. Undiluted. Right out of the can. For cooking: Tomato paste, refried beans, and water chestnuts. Sometimes tomatoes. _Jesse Williamson ;-}; (P.S.-- Campbell's Bean with Bacon Soup does actually make some pretty tasty party dip when doctored up-- and in fact, I very strongly suspect a local restaurant does just that for one of their appetizers. hhehehe)

Hi, Thanks for the wonderful pictures and travelogue! I am very please that you had a good adventure in the Rogue Valley! It was great to read your post. Hope you can visit again! _Jesse Williamson ;-};

Heheh! :) Yay!! :) _Jesse Williamson ;-};

Hey, how did your trip turn out? :) _Jesse Williamson ;-};

Here's a question: Why is this? Anyone know? As discussed earlier in the thread (silly me, not reading it first...), does it simply taste better for this? _Jesse Williamson ;-};

Tough to say if we are talking about bottled weissbier available in the US. Where I live, in Oregon, I can get several German hefewiezens and a few microbrewed ones. I have not yet found a US weissbier worth drinking, to be brutally honest. I keep looking, though!! :) Of what I can get here, Fransizkaner is probably my favorite. Smells fantastic. I agree with all that's been said above, though, I love Hacker-Pschorr, Paulaner, and Schnieder as well. :) In Munich, it was Augustiner. There are of course more than I could ever taste... but I also liked Julius Echter from Wuerzburger Hofbrau, and my favorite Nuernberg microbrewery-- but I'm keeping that one secret. ;-P

Abacela definitely produces some very interesting wine! I found it refreshing to see so many Spanish varietials being grown, really nifty! Beautiful setting, too. (I want to see them fire off that cannon. ;-P) Another thing about Paschal that's nice is that they have a lot of events. I'm sure if one was to give them a ring [(541) 535-7957] they'd tell you all about them. You've gotten me excited about trying Catarina's-- I'll definitely be giving that a go, maybe this weekend!

Bill definitely filled holes I'd left-- great ideas! I might have to take the trip he suggested sometime soon. :-) I second his suggestion of Arbor House-- lovely and cozy setting, great owners, really charming and delightful. My favorite pizza in the area is The Grotto, in talent. The garlic linguicia one... wish I had a slice right now. Have fun! :> _Jesse Williamson ;-};

As I said in my letter to Oregon reps, it seems like it in most cases there are ways to cut "cruelty" to a minimum. There's probably some better definition, but intuitively I'd consider "animal cruelty" to be some situation in which a human being is intentionally abusing an animal. I am not entirely convinced that hand-feeding a goose as for foie gras is in fact cruel. Not that I'm /unconvinced/-- and I can certainly see how it could lead mistreatment-- but one thing that is often pointed out is that the animal becomes unhealthy... yes, that's true... but frankly, it's probably not going to live long enough to suffer any real detriment. I just saw someone walking a really obese dog. They'll probably keep feeding it like that for the next few years, until it finally has a heart attack. That seems cruel. Just a few thoughts.

Here is a copy of a letter I sent to several Oregon State Representaties and to the Governer. I got replies, which I've included below. It's kind of a rant, and I could have proofread it more... but well, at least I wrote I suppose. (I actually sent a few versions, a bit personalized per person, but this is the one I sent to the Governor's address.) ----------- Dear Governor Kulongoski and Oregon Representatives, I am concerned to learn of Senate Bill 861, which calls for the ban in our State of one of the world's greatest culinary delicacies: foie gras. I believe that allowing this ban to pass would be a tragedy in one of the most gastronomically gifted States in our nation. Proponents of the ban argue that producing foie gras is an inhumane, cruel practice. However, they often neglect to emphasize in the same breath that this can be true of any sort of activity related to raising animals for food, and that there are ways of reducing or eliminating the level of irresponsible husbandry. I do not view a wholesale ban on production or sale of foie gras as a good first solution. If the concern really and honestly relates to avoiding animal cruelty, shouldn't we at least first establish whether or not the process is always cruel? Will a foie gras duck ever live long enough to suffer? Is it in fact highly similar to a natural process, as produce Sonoma Valley Foie Gras asserts? When a responsible rancher feeds each fowl by hand, does it make a difference? According to Edward Behr, the "birds grow accustomed to the feeder during the fattening and neither shy away much nor resist". Let's answer these questions before we leap into a reactionary ban. When compared to large-scale industrial beef production and proliferation of genetically modified plants and animal experimentation, a small farm fattening up a flock of geese seems pretty insignificant. It may or may not be possible to truly produce a "cruelty-free" product, but we must at least ask "cruelty-free compared to what"? As one eGullet.org reader pointed out, "if I had to choose between living as a duck raised for foie gras or living as a Tyson chicken, I'd choose to be the duck in a heartbeat." Add to this that those who wish to avoid foie gras for philosophical reasons can continue to avoid it, allowing the market to decide how much of it is produced, and I see no need for a ban. It's not like second-hand smoke, where others can be damaged "by proxy". If I enjoy some foie gras at my own table, my neighbor won't have to eat it as well. Oregon is in a unique position to become one of the world's greatest culinary Meccas. We live in one of the few places on Earth blessed enough to have our own distinctive wild truffles (esteemed by the late James Beard as being at least as good as their European counterparts), bountiful vineyards that are just now coming into their own as world-class producers of wine, amazing gifts of seafood and game from our often still-pristine wilderness, and acres upon acres of some of the best organic fruit and vegetables that you can find anywhere. We also have many ecologically responsible ranchers raising and humanely processing noble animals like chickens, cows, and pigs for some of the best food in the world. The way these ranches work is as day to night when compared to industrial-scale so-called "ranches". I have come to believe that when done on small scale it is possible to apply modern, respectful methods to the ancient process of raising ducks and geese for foie gras production-- any cruelty can be reduced to a minimum, if it is really under those conditions actually cruel at all. Although to the best of my knowledge no company in Oregon presently produces foie gras, it surely has a place as one of the greatest traditional gourmet delights. In a State capable of producing some of the finest ecologically-conscious food in the world, banning something really and truly good while allowing megacorporations like Pepsico and McDonald's to perpetuate true cruelty to animals and also to human beings by furthering the cultural cheapening of our citizens would be appallingly shameful. It is hard for me to believe that legislation like Senate Bill 861 is even in serious consideration in our State, given the other problems we share. But since it is, and has passed the Senate, please consider that there might be a way to responsibly produce foie gras. Please ask for research on humane practices. Please ask why such attention is being focused on banning a process that gives pleasure and happiness when so many other issues facing us cause much more damage to both animals and people alike. Sincerely yours, Jesse Williamson, Medford. Further information: ------------------- These are not truly academic resources-- for perhaps it's not a truly academic discussion. But here are some places that might be used to springboard constructive conversation: 1. "http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/food/218685_foiegras04.html" "the pre-slaughter mortality rate in his industry is 3 percent to 4 percent, lower than in turkey or other poultry industries." "there is no evidence of pain in the foie gras process." 2. "http://www.worldtable.com/foiegras.html#opinion" See the sidebar "In Defense of Foie Gras". 3. "http://www.sonomafoiegras.com/" Sonoma Valley Foie Gras website. They have information which (of course) runs very contrary to anti-foie criticism. Shouldn't we independently investigate the claims of both sides before rushing to a ban? 4. Eric Schlosser's book, "Fast Food Nation" (ISBN: 0060938455). Illuminating view into chain of events caused by the dominance of fast food industries. 5. "http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=64581&pid=883915&mode=threaded&show=&st=&" Lots of discussion of foie gras here, it of course goes back and forth. One reader observes: But here's the thing: if we're going to talk of "humane treatment" and "quality of life," there is simply no way a duck raised for foie gras doesn't have a much better life than the average factory chicken. ================= And replies: ================= Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 07:34:22 -0700 From: Sen Bates <Bates.Sen@state.or.us> To: Jesse Williamson <jesse@mind.net> Subject: RE: Concerns about Senate Bill 861, Foie Gras Ban Dear Jesse Thank you for your letter regarding Senate Bill 861. It is important that we not take this bill out of context; it doesn't ban foie gras production in Oregon. Instead, the bill makes it illegal to force feed birds. I agree with your concerns about the elimination of foie gras, especially in relation to Oregon's fine foods and tourist industries. I also think that there are many possible ways to responsibly produce foie gras, as you hypothesized. The fact remains that force feeding birds is an inhumane practice. I expect that the foie gras industry will be able to find acceptable ways to raise birds without infringing upon the outlines that SB861 necessitates. Once again, thank you for your letter. Please feel free to contact my office regarding this and other issues. With Kind Regards, Dr. Alan Bates State Senator District 3 ===================== Follow-up to prev: Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 08:24:18 -0700 From: Sen Bates <Bates.Sen@state.or.us> To: Jesse Williamson <jesse@mind.net> Subject: RE: Concerns about Senate Bill 861, Foie Gras Ban Jesse, Thank you for the e-mail. Senator Bates has considered the Foie Gras issue very carefully. I will be sure to pass your e-mail on to the Senator. Again, thank you for expressing your thoughts and concerns regarding SB861. Corie Weaver Legislative Assistant Senator Alan Bates, District 3 503-986-1703 -----Original Message----- From: Jesse Williamson [mailto:jesse@mind.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:16 AM To: Sen Bates Subject: RE: Concerns about Senate Bill 861, Foie Gras Ban Dear Senator Bates, I very much appreciate your taking the time to reply to my letter. Thank you for correcting me as to the intent of SB861. From the content of your response, I can see that you have considered the issue well-- and I'm feeling much more positive for it. With appreciation, _Jesse Williamson ;-}; ===================== Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 13:27:52 -0700 From: Rep Richardson <Richardson.Rep@state.or.us> To: Jesse Williamson <jesse@mind.net> Subject: RE: Concerns about Senate Bill 861, Foie Gras Ban Dear Jesse- I agree that the Legislature has much better things to worry about than foie gras. These misplaced priorities illustrate who is truly doing the people's business in this session. House Republicans are fighting for tax cuts, and making sure that the will of the people is done, especially when it comes to property rights, gun ownership and the state's ban on gay marriage. Senate Democrats, meanwhile, have spent considerable time and effort trying to undermine and circumvent the will of the public on all of those issues. SB 861 has already passed the Senate, then was referred to the House Agriculture and Natural Resources Committee on April 29. My staff has enclosed a copy of your e-mail in the file for SB 861. I will keep your input in mind if this bill comes before me for a vote. Sincerely, Dennis Richardson Oregon House of Representatives District 4 =============== Follow-up: Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 18:44:12 -0700 From: Rep Richardson <Richardson.Rep@state.or.us> To: Jesse Williamson <jesse@mind.net> Subject: RE: Concerns Jesse, You and people like you are the reason I am here. I am committed to being a good citizen legislator, and I am trying my best to use wisdom and common sense in the decisions I make here. Dennis R. -----Original Message----- From: Jesse Williamson [mailto:jesse@mind.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:09 PM To: Rep Richardson Subject: RE: Concerns about Senate Bill 861, Foie Gras Ban On Tue, 3 May 2005, Rep Richardson wrote: Dear Dennis, I want to write you again to say "thanks" for taking my email into consideration. I appreciate very much that you have thought about this issue, and also that you recognize there are bigger fish to fry. I'm more optimistic about our State government after seeing that as a citizen my voice can indeed be heart, it's very heartening. Best wishes, _Jesse Williamson ;-}; ======================== ...anyway, that's how that went. :) _Jesse Williamson ;-};

You are hopefully in for some suprising treats! The Rogue Valley is a great place. Here are some ideas: Out of Ashland: * New Sammy's Cowboy Bistro. Absolutely astounding wine list. You will need reservations, and directions. You'll never find it just looking around. ;> * Cafe Dejeuner in Medford. Very good food, fun mostly-classic French menu and very good prices. In Ashland: Dinner: * Amuse. (French) * Zingaro. (Spanish) (and Hong Kong Bar) * Monet Restaurant and Garden. (French) * Cucina Biazzi. (Italian) * Chateulin. (French) * For breakfast, don't miss Morning Glory. Reservations help there, too. Lunch: Lots of /great/ lunch places. * Leila's on A street has some good stuff. * Wiley's World is not expensive and very cute. Tasty fresh pasta, very fun little place. * I like the burgers and cheese wontons at Gepetto's. There are plenty of other places, of course! Beverages: * If you like coffee, try Mellelo, or Good Bean. Both are local roasters. Local beer: * Caldera. Lots of great beer. * Walkabout. Try the Worker's Pale Ale. * Standing Stone. Wine: Too many to list! It's very hard to recommend even just one for you to try... but unless you want to head out toward Applegate, give Roxy Ann and Weisinger's a try. Both have some solid offerings, although if you really want to do wine it is worth setting aside a day or even two to visit everything in the area-- there are a lot of wineries here! You can usually catch a trolley tour in Ashland... and if you drive out toward Applegate or North toward Roseburg there are some real gems as well. Since you're staying near Medford, try Roxy Ann and Paschal wineries, Melello espresso, and Cafe Dejeuner. For numbers: "http://www.google.com/local?&q=restaurants&near=Ashland,+OR+97520". ....you also mentioned shopping. You are all set. By June, the excellent Seven Oaks Farm will be open. Go there for great produce, fresh eggs, and local honey. The Farmer's Market in talent usually has great local produce also, and things like local goat milk and eggs. Whistling Duck makes a yummy salad mix. If you want mushrooms, I know just who to call-- Louis at Mushrooms All Year. Unfortunately, I don't have his number handy-- but let me know if you are interested. There's a butcher in Medford, Schultzke's, that has some good sausage and smoked pork loin and the like-- you can even get pig knuckles for making schweinehax'n (mmm!). For "regular" meat, I love shopping at Quality Market in Medford-- the butchers there are great guys, and it is a really fun, old-time market. Things like veal and duck fat can be tricky, but you can find 'em. If you are after fresh pig's feet, oxtail, tripes, beef tongue, and tortillas, there's a fantastic Mexican-American butcher shop, El Gallo. They have awesome tacos, too (try the pig head meat tacos if they've got 'em that day, they're amazing!). You can also get fresh seafood (can be tricky), game, and so forth. Sometimes the best way is just to get it yourself, but you'll see live crab and so on if you hunt around. If you are visiting the coast, the area I'm most familiar with is Coos Bay. If you visit nearby Charleston, you can get fish off the dock, or arrange to go get it yourself (a lot of fun). I don't know what you have in mind, but maybe write me and I can tell you about the things I've tried so far. For Asian groceries, I'd drop by Asia Market (also in Medford). Fun place! In Ashland, you might drop by Allyson's for some specialty ingredients. Duck fat comes to mind (although you can get that elsewhere as well). Rogue Creamery is in Central Point, and not to be missed. Great people, fantastic cheese. Well, that should be a start. Enjoy your visit down here! :) _Jesse Williamson ;-};

Ooooh, I envy you. I loooove white asparagus, and although where I live it is possible to find fantastic produce, white asparagus usually (and sadly) isn't one of them. One of my very favorite things in the world is sparglecremesuppe, a cream of white asparagus soup that is beyond yummy. I'd give you my favorite recipe, but it seems to still be packed. Sorry. :( Trust me though, you want to give it a try! Just follow a regular cream of asparagus soup recipe, but make sure that it's one that includes a little pork fat. _Jesse Williamson ;-};

I had boiled horsemeat once in Lucca, Italy. Not bad! Here in Southern Oregon, we've got plenty of horses, but nobody that I know of eats them. Bummer.