Todd36

Bouley Upstairs actually makes good sushi. The rest of the list is highly suspect.

It's across the street from Citi's headquarters and down the street from JP Morgan's headquarters and investment banking operations, UBS is also close by.......It's also close to several expensive hotels, like the Four Seasons. I suspect that helps support it----the concentation of better restauarants around Madison and 23rd has something to do with Credit Suisse's location, Morgan Stanley and Lehman are near places like Del Frisco's and Citi investment banking suppors Tribecca's more expensive dining.....

I had fantastic stawberries last summer from a stand in Watsonville surrounded by strawberry fields. Best I've ever had. Upon discussion with the owner, I learned that the strawberries came from 7 miles away, from an independent grower that was raising for the local market. The fields around the stand had nothing to do with the stand, they were operated by contract growers who sold their entitre crop for processing and the supermarket trade. The local market strawberries do not ship well, according to the owner. The stand pre-dated WWII, and I suspect that at one time, it did sell strawberries from the field it was in the middle of.

Had lunch at Gramery Tavern about two weeks ago. Fine, but around a two star, which has been my recent impression.....

A friend of mine orders delivery from Rosanjin pretty often. In her view, it is pretty good, but portions are small and its pricey. She has thought that eat-in is too expensive, delivery is paid by her company. She thought two stars by Bruni was fair, with at least with respect to delivery, eat-in at Sugiyama is better.

With respect to uni, Mr. Sugiyama does not like the stuff this year from CA, he has been serving stuff from Maine---or so he tells me....I don't think they all get it from the same place---you clearly see different kinds of packing trays at different places.

I'd agree with Oak Apple. I had dinner there last week. Prices are very high. Food is OK, basically one star. We had the halibut (big piece), stripped bass, the soup of the day and a salad. It's very expense account. We noted most of the people eating there were men in suits....

Had dinner there Thursday night. The slow cooked salmon was a standout, as was the lobster soup. I'd say it's a strong three star. Better food than I've had recently at Eleven Madison Park, Gotham Bar and Grill or Perry Street (which comes closest). And I enjoyed it more than Yasuda, which given how much I like sushi........

Had lunch there on Friday. As bizzare as it sounds, somehow, I had never eaten there. Had the $27 prix fix. Squash soup, cod and chocolate cake. All very good, although portion size seemed a little small. A good deal for $27. Again, in the two to three star range. I like Perry Street better for lunch.

Had dinner there again last Saturday---it's very good. I love their Mozzarella---current version is being served with poached quince. I rate the place two to three stars and I am of the view that it is well priced. I also like their cocktails. I've now probably eaten here six times.

I actually haven't been back---my dining friend has decided she doesn't like the owner. Another interesting (but warmer feeling) home style Japanese dining option is on the south side of East Sixth, near I believe second avenue. I forgot the name. When I eat out Japanese, it is often with a very food oriented Tokyo native who move to NYC when she about 28. She tends to be spot on with respect to food. And it's nothing like Omen, Tsukushi is I think better---disappointed in my last meal at Omen.

I feel vindicated. I knew something was wrong.

Brasseries traditionaly do not close between lunch and dinner, continious service, and I believe that is one of the key points that distinguishes them from other Parsian restaurants, as much as the style of food.

Had dinner there about 10 days ago: Parsnip apple soup with Black Truffes---good Loup de Mer---good Suckling Pig Confit--yikes. Perhaps I missed something, but I did not like it at all. Tasted weird, not like pork. The freebie cheese balls were no where as good as under the prior regime. I was not as impressed as by the items I had at the bar about 6 weeks ago. I would say two stars was fair. Had a glass of dryish Tokai and they tossed in a glass of sweet Tokai from next week's menu, it was very good.

Not clear what will happen, varying rumors in the Japanese community.

Had dinner at Yasuda about two weeks ago, group of five at a table, one known to Yasuda, so he made our sushi. It's very good, and the rice was excellent. We paid around $120 per person for sushi. But the fish itself is not better than several places in town, and I've had more interesting fish at Sugiyama in the form of sashami and for that matter at Ushi Wakamru. Yasuda is a fine place, and it's not overpriced for what you get and it is clearly one of the top places in town. But I don't think it's better than a number of other top sushi places.

Had dinner there tonight. Excellent drinks btw, a very good Singapore Sling. Excellent dum sum, best I've had in NY. It's expensive. We had about 5 kinds of dumplings, including great pan fried shrimp and chive dumplings. Very good soup dumplings, not as fatty as most. Peking duck was good, not remarkable, same with 3 pepper chicken. Whole fish in spicy sauce was OK.

Or put another way, tell me which restaurant has the following option on its menu: "Chef's choice, 5 courses $2,000 pp. Our finest dishes of the day, using our best ingredents. Prepared only by the best elements of our kitchen staff, including hands out work by the Chef." Now maybe if you call, you can arrange that at say Daniel or whatever, but which restaurant has that on their menu? Mind you, I'm going to work today with at least 20 people who made in excess of $5 million last year, and by working with, I mean I will speak with them...... a $2,000 pp dinner for them is like a $50 pp dinner for a first year associate at a law firm....so where's that $2,000 pp dinner on the menu?

Wine is the perfect counterexample to my question. You can walk into basically any starred restaurant in NYC and find a $50 bottle of wine (Per Se doesn't I believe dip quite that low). You can walk into basically any three or four star restaurant in NYC and find a $1,000 bottle of wine. In fact, finding a $5,000 or $10,000 bottle of wine in stock and ready to order isn't very hard. That's a 200:1 price ratio. It's tough to find a three course meal in NYC with a drink, tax and tip for less than $40. It's tough to find a three course meal in NYC with a drink, tax and tip for over $200. Even if you order truffles and caviar, it's tough to spend much more than $500 per person. Sure, there are ways you can spend more if you do things no reasonable person will do (I'll take 20 pieces of toro and a pound of caviar please), but except perhaps for Per Se and Masa, there are no restaurants in town that are designed to create food checks that exceed $500 pp on a regular basis. If you think about how much money people have in this city, and their willingness to order very expensive wines and to spend large sums on transitory experiences, $500 pp on food doesn't seem like a lot, and even that sum is only about 10 or 12 times the food cost at say a one star. It's not a large ratio. Also, things like Caviar and truffles (like wine) are fairly price stable restaurant to restaurant, that pound of caviar at Eleven Madison Park and Per Se may very well cost the same. They also don't require much cooking skill to serve, the caviar in particular.....

I would bet some money that if you tried ordering that at Norma's. you might have to wait a while for it to come........doubt that they keep the ingredents around at all times. In any case, my point was not whether you could find custom or weird ways to spend money on food, it was whether normal menus get very expensive, and they don't. People think that Per Se at over $300 pp is very expensive. Frankly, its not. There are plenty of people in this town who spend $1000 pp for tickets at the Met (donation required to get the tickets) and then take a $500 limo ride back to Westchester. There are people who think nothing of spending $1,000 a night or more on entertainment in NY. Ever seen Jazz at the Caryle? With their cover and drink minimums, it approaches a $100 pp per hour. So why do we think $300 pp per person for dinner is so high? Much less $200.

My pay is so high that my I'm upgrading my solid gold flatware. No, I'm not complaining about things being not expensive enough. But why is food fairly cheap, and compressed into a narrow price range? I can buy a $500 Charvart shirt at Bergdorf or a $20 store brand at Macy's. Both are off the rack, 25:1 ratio. And no, they are not for a lifetime. If a men's dress shirt survives more than 50 washings, you're lucky. Lots of things are available in a broad price range, but not restaurants. The top end is actually fairly low when you think about it.

What I suggested is that the dividing line between the top 25-50 restaurants, and the rest of the world, is more like $125-150. There aren't 25 restaurants in the Daniel/JG class. Originally, I didn't realize that you were including tax and tip. On that basis, I think the dividing line is more like $150-175. Right, but it's not 100:1, which was your earlier point of comparison. We'd probably need to analyze a few more categories to determine whether restaurant pricing is really as out-of-whack as you're suggesting. I think it gets back to supply and demand. When a wine bottle costs $1,000, it's because there's a limited amount available at that quality level. But I can get into Daniel almost any time I want. ← We're not very far apart on price. Wine can probably hit a 100:1, I've seen bottles over $5,000, which is less a question of qualtity and more one of prestige. That's one of those things that makes me wonder. I can walk into Daniel and spend $2-3000 per person on wine without difficulty, no supply and demand problem at all, just walk in and spend money. But I can't walk in and spend $1000 on food at Daniel, not on anything on the menu. That $5,000 bottle of wine is on the normal wine list.

I'm having dinner there tomorrow night on someone else's dollar (I'm a client). I'll report back.

I've eaten lunch several times fairly recently at Gramercy Taven, and while it was fine, it was not a top restaurant. It still does quite a business.

By that definition, Per Se is the only non-Japanese high-end restaurant in New York. I think you've simply set the bar too high. The right figure is more like $125-150. Tokyo and London are simply more expensive, and have been for a long time. (I haven't been to Paris recently, so won't comment.) Aparments are scarce, but restaurants are plentiful. Indeed, New York has far more restaurants than it needs, which is partly why so many fail. Even at successful restaurants, you can generally get a table at reasonably short notice, which certainly isn't true about successful apartment buildings.You also need to consider that an apartment is something you possess, while a restaurant meal is a transitory experience. I think the price ratios (most to least expensive) for other transitory experiences, like professional theatre and sporting events, are closer to 5:1 than 100:1. ← I can't get dinner at Daniel or Jean Georges or Bouley or quite a few other places with a drink and tax and tip for $125. The prix fix alone is at least $90. $200 is the minimum for the full dining experience for that kind of place, I eat out in that kind kind of place close to ten times a year. Sporting events can run 20:1 or more, for things like NBA tickets on the floor. There is also a wider range at some cultural events, tickets at the Met Opera can range from $30 to $300 at the same performance and the better tickets cost more than that, you need to belong (donate $$$) to the Met Opera Guild to get them (I have season tickets). There is still a remarkably tight range for restaurants. Consider that places like Daniel have bottles of wine that cost over a $1,000. Wine is a transatory experience.....